Vest problem.

[kwelz]

Alright I still haven't got a good vest. Honestly with the money I have to space right now (None) I am just not able to pick up a new one. All I have is the Tac Force Vest listed HERE (http://tac-force.com/commandotacticalvest.aspx)

I purchased it back in my "good enough" days. I works ok but the real problem is that when I use my single point MS2 sling it cuts across the top of the pistol mag pouches and blocks access to them. I can tighten the sling up but this makes it harder to manipulate, especially if I try to switch from Main to reaction side. Any suggestions?

[MIKE G]

Edited after re-reading...

Have you considered selling the vest you have? What is your mission? Training?

DOC

ETA:

To me the vest you showed was a crummy copy of an outdated design that likely will not return to vogue any time soon. I would still say try and sell it to some airsofter or something like that and get it out of your inventory.

As you purchase gear try to look at it from a scaled approach, example: I want to build my 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line so that I can train for civilian type contingencies and eventually have a nice BOB. Given that goal I would start with a couple of single pistol mag pouches and single rifle mag pouches that can be used on belts or molle (malice clips or designed with belt loops and molle options). This will allow you to later use them and you wont end up with a huge pile of junk. In addition I would stay away from trying to get a lot for a little, i.e. a whole vest for $100, I have pouches that I have spent close to that on. Buy reliable brands that will hold up and you will have a piece of gear that will last a while AND have solid resale value down the road.

For $85 you could have gotten an SKD/Eagle chest rig that you could probably sell today for more than what you have in the tacforce vest. Just something to consider.

So, some general rules that are helpful when starting to build your rig (this primarily applies to shooters since medics, breachers, EOD, etc will end up buying more specialized gear in addition to standard stuff)

Start with your first line.
Think scaleability
Buy quality the first time even if it means the box wont be so big when it shows up


If I were to be taking a civi focused class I would probably show up with a couple blade tech m4 mag holders, a double pistol mag holder, IWB or low pro OWB holster, riggers belt which I wear every day anyway, and either a slick or lightly loaded plate carrier.

This is easily scaled for your approach: Start with a holster and pistol mag pouches and take some pistol training, upgrade your belt if need be and get a mag holder or two that can be belt worn (either kydex or nylon) and molle mounted (my blade tech (all m4 and a few single pistol holders) use the Tek-Lok mount so I can mount them on any molle platform, this sets you up well for your first rifle class and many training sessions. If you decide you need less concealability and more comfort you can get a belt pad/sleeve and mount the pouches/holders you already have so you dont waste money buying redundant stuff. Down the road if you want to do FOF or more high end rifle classes that require armor OR you can budget to include that in your preps then you can add what you have to your vest/plate carrier or run a first line belt rig AND a vest like many guys do.

hope that helps,

DOC

[Iraq Ninja]

Well, the cheap fix is easy. Carefully cut off the pistol mag pouches and the pouch on the shoulder. Get a pistol mag holder for your belt. It won't look too bad if you do it right.

This style of vest was popular a decade ago. Sounds like you don't have armor. I would go with a simple best right or battle belt setup. That is really all you probably need...

[kwelz]

I am civilian through and through. No mission, no armor. I believe in being prepared for bad situations so I have (some of) the tools and am working on the training. I plan on taking some carbine courses next year so most of the gear I am getting is with that goal in mind. Hence my clothing question, which seems to have turned into a real shit storm, and questions like this.

I am not looking for the tacticool stuff, nor do I figure I need the same setup that you gentlemen would have in a full combat situation.

[MIKE G]

I was editing my post while you posted so check that out above.


For civis I really like to do a strong first line and then a third line (BOB or similar) unless they can put the money into armor or have a particular threat in mind. Reason being is you can setup a solid first line that is concealable AND a third line that doesnt stand out too much.

DOC

[kwelz]

Read your edits. thanks.

Thanks to M4C I ALWAYS buy quality now. It is something that really has more to do with a mindset and less to do with just firearms and firearms accessories. I dont' believe in good enough or getting by.

This Vest was purchased years ago when I didn't have the benefit of my head being on strait.

[MIKE G]

No worries.

I literally have thousands of dollars of gear sitting in my basement that I either bought, requested, or was issued. It used to be that I would put very little effort into researching and deciding on gear that I was looking at, I just bought a lot of stuff on a whim or a "gee that looks like it will work". Now I mull over purchases a lot more and do research into everything I can from where the product is made, other people's experiences, returns, how many are being sold in the gear exchange and the like. I still buy a shit ton of gear and toss a lot of it but my gear is much more streamlined, user friendly, and durable than it was 5 or 6 years ago.

As to the civi-ness and needing/using gear made for pro's: If you are willing to spend your money on it and train your heart out I am not going to give you a hard time for buying Eagle, Paraclete, Mayflower, or any of the other high end names as long as set it up for reasonable needs and put just as much effort into shooting, moving, and communicating as you do matching all the shades of coyote brown in your vest.

DOC

[Iraq Ninja]

Kwelz,

I probably have what many would consider the top of the line combat kit. It is even better than what the soldiers have. But, I would not use it at home for my "worse case" fighting rig. It is a different world where I work and where I live back home.

A simple padded battle belt with two extra M4 mags, pistol mags, and a simple med kit will go a long way IF I can get to my rifle.

[kwelz]

LOL. I understand what you are saying. My personal philosophy is train till you bleed then train some more. I personally feel training trumps gear to an extend but am limited at this time in what I can do. Still, one does as best they can.

I hope to do Magpuls Carbine 1 and 2 class at some point next year. I should probably consider a pistol course as well but I feel I am pretty proficient with a pistol already. While there is plenty of room to improve I want to make sure I have as broad of a knowledge base as possible.

[kwelz]

Point taken Iraq Ninja, that probably is all I really need. Would that also serve me in any courses I was to take?

[rob_s]

Run all your pistol stuff off your belt as you would in an everyday carry situation.

Tactical Tailor Mini-MAV (http://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav.aspx) is $40, I got one $25 used.
Tactical Tailor triple shingle (http://www.tacticaltailor.com/556triplemagpanel.aspx) is $36. I'm sure it is less used or bought through a vendor and not direct.

$76 at worst, sell the tac vest of barf for $50 and recoup most of your costs.

Better yet, the best civilian-use chest rig you can buy at any price and under $70 (http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_M4_Chest_Rig_LE_3_Mag_p/eag.563.htm).

[kwelz]

Yeah I was looking at the Eagle option Rob, although the one I had looked at also held pistol mags. You have a point about selling the vest I currently have. Hell I probably have enough junk around here to fund a new Vest and half a new gun. I will just bit the bullet on this one.

[aflin]

If anything, take a look at the SKD Tactical Universal Chest rig. Its simple and incredibly versatile without breaking your bank

[Klear Above]

I would vote for a good modern chest rig from a quality company: Mayflower, Paraclete, Tac Tailor....the list goes on.