Tell me about the Raven Concealment Phantom [Archive]

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QuietShootr

11-01-09, 22:38

I tried one at the Indy 1500 gun show for use with my M&P45 midsize, and it seems to hold the gun solidly to my side without flopping around the way all others are prone to do.

I'm concerned, though, about durability. That kydex seems awfully thin.

Selftest

11-01-09, 23:15

I don't know anything about that particular holster, but my Minataur has very thin Kydex, and it has held up extremely well.

I know that some very prominent people (I think Pat Rogers, could be wrong...) have seen kydex of all thicknesses break in class use, so you may want to take that into consideration.

BobM

11-01-09, 23:31

I've been using mine for a year or two now with no issues.

John_Wayne777

11-01-09, 23:36

JW777 puts on his RCS evangelist hat:

I was introduces to the Raven stuff by Ken Hackathorn at the November 2007 edition of the Vickers/Hackathorn low light 1 class. He unzipped his jacket and revealed an M&P .45 with a mounted Surefire light, two spare magazines, and a S&W J frame on his belt...and I hadn't noticed any of it before he opened his jacket.

All of it carried in RCS gear. So we listened to the guys give their pitch and looked at some of their stuff. I decided to give it a try.

After almost two years of daily use, I've found the RCS carry gear to be the best carry gear I've ever tried. It's extremely easy to conceal and it's comfortable for even extended periods of time when you're sitting. I've made other converts by letting them try the RCS gear I've purchased. I lost my Glock gear to a friend who asked me for help with selecting a new carry gun. He'd been carrying an LCP because everybody at the gunstore told him he couldn't possibly conceal anything more substantial. I slapped an empty Glock 17 in my RCS Phantom set up for IWB carry and made him put it on. He was stunned at how well it concealed.

...so he took a look at my G26 and the RCS and gave me the puppy dog eyes. $300 bucks later (what he managed to get out of a Sigma) he now owns the G26, a Surefire G2 with an LED element in it, some spare magazines, and the RCS Phantom. (Yes, I know...I'm a friggin' prince.)

He e-mailed me the other day raving about how awesome the RCS holster is. He is constantly on the road and he says the holster is so comfortable he often forgets he even has it on....so apparently my assessment of the gear isn't completely out in left field.

FWIW, I generally carry IWB using the rubber loops.

As far as durability goes, the most common complaint I see is breaking the standard belt loops. My holster that can accomodate the mounted Surefire X300 for my M&P is set up with the standard belt loops, but I rarely carry in that manner so it's never bothered me. The holster itself and the mag carrier and flashlight carrier that use the standard loops have never given me any issues in almost two years of daily wear. The only maintenance I ever do is occasionally making sure the screws are tight on the attachment points to the holster...and by "occasionally" I mean every four or five months when I think about it.

I'm a huge fan of their stuff. If there's better concealment gear out there I don't know what it is. Carry gear tends to be intensely personal so what works best for me might not be the best for everybody, but from my personal experience and the experience of others who have tried it on my recommendation it's been great gear.

One note of caution: The RCS niche is concealment. It's even in the name of the company. Concealment. If somebody is looking for an RCS phantom to do what say a Safariland 6004 does, they will probably be better off with the Safariland. If, however, you're looking for carry gear that lets you comfortably pack a full-sized blaster and some important accessories discretely, then the RCS stuff is worth a look, IMO.

Aries144

11-01-09, 23:48

I'm a skinny guy, living on the south coast, and had trouble finding a holster that would work with the typical warm-weather clothes in my area (t-shirt and shorts). It's warm clothing weather here about 9-10 months out of the year.

I had trouble concealing my Glock19 with leather holsters because they were just too thick and created an obvious bulge. I didn't like using the Smartcarry holster with shorts because I felt it was too slow, awkward, and inconsistant on the draw, and because that method of carry made me look significantly out of proportion- i.e. larger on the bottom than up top.

I tried the Phantom and settled on wearing it at 5:00. It is my number one choice for hot weather carry right now. It's thin: as long as I don't bend over, I'm invisible and I can draw quickly and consistantly. If I have to go someplace where I'm going to be doing a lot of bending or squatting, like a bookstore where you want to access the bottom magazine rack for instance, the Phantom can work in the appendix position. Though, it does put uncomfortable pressure on the top of my leg in certain sitting and squatting positions.

Fenway

11-02-09, 01:10

I know one guy who managed to break a Raven holster. It was brought to Raven at the Indy 1500 and replaced for free on the spot. I have been running Raven stuff for a couple of years now and won't look back. Great guys and great gear!

stony275

11-02-09, 02:16

Long time RCS Phantom and other Raven Concealment products user here.

I first met the RCS crew at a gun show in Ohio in 2005 and initially I was skeptical of their product. After seeing how Ken reacted to their product (as Pat Rogers says "in police work, they call that a clue.") I decided to give their Phantom a try. I've been using a Phantom holster, mag carrier and G2 holster here in Iraq since 2006. Since then many co-workers and DS agents have started using them. Even KevinB noticed it while he was here in country.

I have managed to break a few belt loops, but wearing body armor with plates, wedging in and out of armored Suburbans, etc tends to push a product. Now that they have the slightly thicker loops cut with the grain, I've not had an issue.

Go to the EOTAC web site and look at the pics of LAV running a class and take a look at what the "students" are using for a holster. You'll see a preponderance of Phantoms. See above Pat Rogers quote.

Bottom line, the Phantom is a superbly designed and executed piece of kit that is backed up by a lifetime warranty.

Ak44

11-02-09, 02:27

After reading a bunch of positive threads about Raven holsters, I decided to order one. In about a month and a half I should have it for my Springfield PRO. I can't wait :D

FromMyColdDeadHand

11-02-09, 03:16

I have a Raven for Sig 226 and a HK P7 and I really like it, but for IWB I find the MTAC WAY more comfortable. I have a larger diameter than most, so that might contribute. If I were a jacket wearer or wore longer untucked shirts, I could see it working really well, but for tucked IWB in the rubber loops, I think there are better alternatives.

rob_s

11-02-09, 07:53

I have a Raven for my Glock 19, and just ordered another for the G19 with light.

I started out IWB with the rubber loops they sell and HATED the holster. I have since changed to the kydex over-hooks and like it a whole lot more. I have read and seen horror stories about almost all of the various loops (other than the rubber loops, obviously) and hooks breaking. I attach my over-hooks with one screw each which I think allows them a bit more flexibility. I also happen to think that the warm S Florida weather helps keep them a little more pliable as well.

I was carrying my fullsize 1911s in the Versa Max II and I have found the switch to the Raven for the Glock to be pretty seamless.

I took a cue from another member here and flattened my loops that came with the holster to mount it to a MOLLE battle belt setup. I will port these flattened loops over to the new holster which will live on the belt.

I have two complaints, but they aren't really limited to Raven, and I would consider them to be very minor.

1) I wish that their holsters made to hold the gun with light attached would work without the light as well. I know there are few, if any, makers that are doing this but I was really hoping Raven would figure out a way to do it.
2) Availability. I just placed an order and was told 35-40 days out. In the custom leather world that's obviously no time at all, but I wish they had more stocking dealers where one could perhaps pay a small premium and get something in-stock.

I actually have confidence that they will address both of these as the company grows.

M4arc

11-02-09, 08:08

I have on for my G19 and one for my G19 with a light and so far I'm kind of neutral on them. Quality and construction is first rate and they are thin and comfortable but they tend to ride a little high up for my taste.

It doesn't seem to be as bad using the standard belt loops but then the holster is OWB. Using the IWB soft loops seems to exaggerate the situation.

Using a 1.5" Wilderness Frequent Flyer belt still results in some wobble because of how high up the gun rides. I should note that I'm not a big guy; 5'5" & 130lbs so maybe it has to do with my limited frame?

Someone gave me a set of the J-hooks at the range yesterday and I'm going to try those today and see how they work.

rob_s

11-02-09, 08:22

Something else I'll add...

there are quite a few people using over-hooks from other brands like Comp-Tac, like these (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=81). I'm considering this myself, even though I haven't had any problems to date, and I have a spare set of overhooks on order.

C45P312

11-02-09, 08:33

You won't be disappointed. I wore one IWB for awhile til I picked up a MTAC at a steal of a price. My RCS Phantom now lives on my "dress pants" setup. When I go to church, casual/semi-formal functions, I bring the RCS for OWB setup. It does the job 100% especially because I'm usually wearing a coat or a jacket to these galas. Nonetheless, I'm looking to pick another up for my G17.

Misc Ex-Member

11-02-09, 08:38

I use one with the soft loops for my Glock 19. However I have been doing the AIWB thing lately (different holster) so haven't worn it as much.

I think there are probably better options for OWB but I am a definitely a fan for IWB.

Jakus

11-02-09, 09:25

I took a cue from another member here and flattened my loops that came with the holster to mount it to a MOLLE battle belt setup. I will port these flattened loops over to the new holster which will live on the belt.

Sorry to the OP for the side question, but is there a thread on the modification above?

rob_s

11-02-09, 09:40

Sorry to the OP for the side question, but is there a thread on the modification above?

The discussion is here
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=214&highlight=belt&page=14

It's pretty basic though. I just put mine in the oven until the went flat and then re-shaped them and bolted them in place to cool.

QuietShootr

11-02-09, 18:24

Sounds like it is a winner. I am having the devil's own time finding something that will carry my M&P 45 mid-size exactly the way I want it (i.e. not too high, not too low, and tight into my side without cinching my belt to the point where I can't breathe).

The butt of my M&P wants to flop out from my body to a very irritating degree.

supersix4

11-02-09, 19:22

I have 2 for my FS M&P45 and 1 for my 1911. They are the best IMO

d90king

11-02-09, 19:26

Interesting timing of this thread. I ordered one for my P30 a couple hours ago based on a recommendation from someone who's opinion I value. I will give an update when it arrives in a month or so.

threeheadeddog

11-02-09, 19:38

I have a Sig 220 Combat TB and not to take anything away from Raven but basically I bought it because I saw some pics of someone using a threaded barreled glock in one and bought it because they were the only company that would make a custom holster to fit both the threaded barrel and tall sights.

I have been VERY pleased with it. I wear it OWB and it fits very tight to the body and conceals this large pistol very well.

I have used milt sparks and wilson combat leather in the past and this is a very good holster that is either equal or better than all the competition.

Longhorn

11-02-09, 23:59

1) I wish that their holsters made to hold the gun with light attached would work without the light as well. I know there are few, if any, makers that are doing this but I was really hoping Raven would figure out a way to do it.

Rob, can you (or anyone) comment a little more on this?

When you say would work without the light do you mean there's no retention w/o light or is there some retention, just not enough to feel safe?

A buddy of mine was asking about this yesterday. I figured it would work, there just wouldn't be as much retention w/o light...:confused:

spamsammich

11-03-09, 01:21

Rob, can you (or anyone) comment a little more on this?

When you say would work without the light do you mean there's no retention w/o light or is there some retention, just not enough to feel safe?

A buddy of mine was asking about this yesterday. I figured it would work, there just wouldn't be as much retention w/o light...:confused:

There isn't enough retention where I'd feel comfortable without the light. Jumping down from stairs or something like that will make your gun pop out of the holster.

N.Franklin

11-03-09, 03:51

I bought Raven Concealment gear strictly because I cant stand wearing IWB, conceals just as good OWB and a whole lot more comfortable. Only thing Im worried about is the loops, on my phantom I can replace them but on the ghost I wear with my Glock 19 you cannot take them off, guess Ill have to send that one in for replacement when they break.

RobT2K

11-03-09, 18:57

So besides the standard holster, do you guys recommend any of the eclipse IWB/OWB accessories?

Are the pancake wings needed for a good OWB carry? I'm also looking at the paddle attachment because I really like the on/off ease. What is the best setup for IWB, or what works for you?

Thanks

Beebo

11-04-09, 18:12

I ordered some of the IWB tuckable overhooks for my Phantom that holds a Glock 19. It will probably be another week or two before I receive them, but once I do, I'll let you know. My main reason was for quick on/off IWB wear. If these aren't suitable to my needs, I'll check out some loops.

smp444

11-15-09, 13:56

I got tired of the OWB belt loops breaking at inopportune times (wait... are there really any opportune times!?) RCS' customer service was great and they sent me about 6 spares when my first one broke but I'm down to 2 spares left. I wear the phantom (G23 w/XTI Procyon light) daily... I don't otherwise abuse it, not sure why they break. I wear it at about 4 o'clock with the leading edge just behind my pant leg seam.

Anyway, I fab'd some 'loops' out of an aluminum radio mount bracket I found in my dept's radio shop. Started as about a 2" x 4" piece. I bent it to shape using a vise, hammer, vice grips and an adjustable wrench. I then cut down the center to give me 2 symmetrical 'loops'. I then hit the bench grinder and wire wheel to finish shape them and knock off any sharp points. The wire wheel actually makes the edges very 'soft' smooth. Took me about 45 mins... probably could have made them prettier if I'd spent more time on them but no one sees them except me.

Not the greatest pics... sorry

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/smp444/1112091940a_0001.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/smp444/1112091942_0001.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/smp444/1112091942a_0001.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/smp444/1112091943_0001.jpg

My off-side rig... I've only broken one of these belt loops but there's three so one isn't as critical.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/smp444/1112091943a.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/smp444/1112091944_0001.jpg

diving dave

11-15-09, 15:13

Just to dogpile onto everyone elses comments, I just recieved my Phantom and a mag pouch for my Glock 26. Took awhile to get it, but what a nice holster. very flat, hold the gun firm but very quick on the draw.

Roy

11-21-09, 23:11

Got one for my G34/Surefire X300 also use with my 22
Got one for my 22 with out light
ordered one for my 21 (should be here monday)
and have mag pouches

i have cracked the holster on the light rig, right near the ejection port -- my fault was ground fighting.. Raven offered to fix for free. I just super glued it has held fine

i broke one belt loop. Raven sent me a bag. I even told them the loop was my fault and they refused to charge me CANT BEAT THAT

Id like to see some heavier duty belt loops. BUT i LOVE the rig otherwise. Concealment is outstanding with it.

cant wait for their leg rig

glen

11-23-09, 08:14

I carried my G19 in a Phantom with the tuckable IWB hooks. It's comfy and conceals great behind the hip. Non adjustable tension but it's set right for me from the factory.

After a year or so of everyday carry and regular practice draws the kydex wings that hold the belt clips cracked at the screw holes. An e-mail later Jay sent one right out. 6 months or so after the holster body cracked at the retention dimple at the trigger guard area. It was still usable though. Jay sent me a new Phantom and this one's going strong.

Im fairly hard on my carry gear and I've had kydex gear from Sidearmor and Comp Tac fail on me too so the above was not unexpected.

I switched to a modified Comp Tac CTAC for AIWB so I dont use the Phantom so much anymore.

All in all a good product with excellent customer service.

mercop

11-23-09, 10:11

Been rocking mine for my G23 for 2 yrs. Like taking an 6 inch ACE bandage, wrapping around your waist and putting your gun in it. I am also running three others with my KWA G17 Airsofts that we use for FOF training. They have been put on an off hundreds of times this year and are not worse for the wear, and it is not like students treat the stuff like it is theirs. Quite a few people have run out after class and purchased one.- George

Propblast

11-24-09, 17:08

I've had mine for a year and a half or so and have broken several over hooks. Jay replaced them with no issue. This one is for my Glock 19 with TLR-1 on it. Getting ready to order one for my Sig 226 BlackWater with the TLR.

Ak44

11-24-09, 17:23

Just got my Phantom 1911 holster, now I just need my Springfield Professional to put in it.

Roy

11-24-09, 19:03

JUst got the new one for my 21, love it
ordered one for the 21 with light
and because AK44 and I are smart guys im gonna order one for my pro.

NinjaMedic

11-24-09, 21:07

I have had no durability issues with my Phantom holster after months of continuos IWB carry with the hooks. Take a look at THIS (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24332&highlight=raven+concealment) thread that I started previously about my experiences with a raven holster and one of my pistols that is less common. I have no idea whether they have addressed this issue with current products yet as I still have received ZERO response from RCS after several attempts to contact them via various forms of communication, and ended up having to remold my $70.00 holster myself. I sent several emails and placed three separate phone calls leaving voice messages and they made absolutely no effort to contact me or to rectify the situation. They are certainly not Larue or MagPul. The only issue that I have ever experienced with RCS is a lack of customer service, that being said most of the people that I have heard from have not experienced any of these CS related issues and YMMV. Just be cognizant of the fact that you may have to slightly remold your brand new $70.00 holster yourself if your weapon is not as popular due to the holster potentially having unrecognized flaws in the design. This issue aside I still believe that their product is the best solution for concealed carry.

QuietShootr

11-24-09, 22:58

Getting tired of waiting for some form of customer service. They pissed me off at the Indy 1500 once, (come back in the morning and we'll make you a holster, then Sorry, too busy). no contact on my order either. I'm about ready to cancel.

dookie1481

11-25-09, 16:21