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Aubrey
06-07-06, 11:51
With the recent introduction of some new two-point slings, I am interested in exploring the pros and cons of both the single-point styles (such as the excellent Wilderness Tactical Single-Point® type that I am currently using) as well as the two-point styles FOR DIFFERENT USAGES.

I know this is somewhat of a personal-preference and perhaps a bit of a controversial issue. I believe that differing missions/requirements may dictate different equipment.

Please be specific in your recommendations for both slings and mounts.

I am particularly interested in specifically what mounts the two-point guys are running and where they are placed on the carbine. Pics are most helpful.

Voodoochild
06-07-06, 12:11
I have an ASP single poin sling and it is ok A bit annoying at times. It would be nice if it came with padding like the one TROY has. Over all it is a pretty good sling never used any Two point slings and yes it is a touchy topic with some swearing by one over the other.

Bonk2029
06-07-06, 14:14
I use a SpecterGear single-point.

Advantages:
- much easier to do off-side transitions
- easy to get out of, particularly with a QD buckle
- doesn't interfere with gear on the side of your rifle - bolt catch, Redi-Mag, lights on the 9:00 rails

Disadvantages:
- best with lighter weapons, as there's alot of weight hanging on a relatively narrow area. I tried one with my Mossberg 590, which fully loaded weighs two pounds and change more than my M4gery, and really noticed the weight
- there can be a bit of a "hinge" effect, with the carbine swinging around more. 3-point slings tend to lock down a carbine a little better, and you'll know where it is and where it'll go when you let go of it

Just my subjective opinions. :)

Pat_Rogers
06-07-06, 15:36
Aubrey- this would have been more appropriate in support gear rather than Technical Discussions....

Aubrey
06-07-06, 15:43
Sorry Pat. I'm for moving it if a Mod/Adm can. Still finding my way around the new digs...

Harv
06-07-06, 20:24
I've had a lot of slings over the years.
I used the 3 pt sling on my Issued A2 and thought it was great compared to the issued black nylon 2 pt sling. For patrolling is was great as it put the weapon in the front at the ready. For hands free you could swing it over to your backside for Important tasks..like eating my morning SOS on the hood of a Humvee....;)

The downside was a lot of straps that always seemed to get hung up on the interior of vehicles and on my gear.

Then the Single Point slings hit the scene. I tried one and liked it. it solved the strap management issues and kept the receiver controls free of a sling strap.
With a little technique I learned form this really Smart Ex Marine/Cop, it worked well. kept the carbine in place and kept it from bouncing during transition.

I ran that sling for close to 3 years, and now a new 2Pt sling (Vickers) rolled out and peaked my interest. I really like it so far. it gives great control like a 3 point sling, but seems to be more like a single point sling when it comes to simplicity and lack of extra straps.


I'm going to run it in a class in about 3 weeks and give it a good workout and see how I like it.
Heres a pic of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/IMG_0967.jpg

mark5pt56
06-07-06, 21:13
From what I've seen, the 3 points get hung up on everything, gear, vehicles, etc. They get in the way when the shooter tries to manipulate the weapon controls.

The single point bungee(ZM) is ok, alot of bounce with it though. Very quick to get on and off, no quick release buckle.

I haven't tried the ASP sling. It looks extremely versitile with the different types of attachment options. The Blackwater Gear sling is nearly the same, but only has a HK type hook on it.

I made a sling up that is adjustable, has a HK style hook on each end. I can hook both into the Deiter plate, or run one up to the front If I need to cross sling. I was thinking of making another, incorporating a quick release buckle and allowing the front hook to snap into the rear one to allow for a one snap removal if both are attached at the rear plate, and incorporate swivel hooks instead-no binding.

The single point really shine for close quarters and especially vehicle ops. Allows the user while in and out of vehicles to quickly release while on board and have better manipulation on ball outs and after it cools off, snap it back up. This is user optional of course. -works great if you are, let's say the right side passenger and have a "contact right" and have to get across the seat and out the left.

The Vickers sling looks good. I would like to see it modified to do what I described on how I want to modify mine. Maybe allow for different attachment methods.

I've even seen a simple strap tied to a single hook-works rather good.

Mark

Forest
06-08-06, 09:35
Harv,
Are you going to let us in on this trick you learned from Pat?

Thanks,
Forest

Erick Gelhaus
06-08-06, 13:52
Well, my thoughts ....

Over the years I've run 1, 2 & 3 point slings. This is to include my time in the Sand Box, as a Sqd Ldr in an infantry heavy wpns / anti-armor unit. Realize though, that some of this is a sample of One.

3 point - an extra strap to ctach on things and, as a lefty it runs the risks of blocking the ejection port. I did not experience that, but enough have expressed concern with this for it to be an issue.

Single point - this was a very good idea / design. Running solely in a mounted role and dismounting briefly or when doing raids, this was a very good system. For dismounted patrolling, the longer we walked, the less comfortable it was. Throwing comfort out, it was quick to engage with/from. I've used this LE wise and in the Close In role I really like it; BUT there is zero option for a supported weapon if the Threat is at a distance.

2 Point - While in the Sand Box, I had a Wilderness Single Point Sling & adapters. Operationally, the adapters worked very well. Once I installed these, the Single Point was a viable option for dismounted ops by connecting one end to an adapter. Plus, it worked on the FOB, under Fobbit rules.

I am awaiting arrival of the BFG 2 point sling. But at this point, my view - very limited as it is - is to use a sling that will run in multiple roles. The decision being based on the situation, as the end user sees it.

All have their pros & their cons. At this point, I'm leaning towards a Single Point with adapters or an adjustable Two Point.

Erick

mcgrubbs
06-08-06, 17:09
Aubrey,

I would recommend you try a pack from Ashley at Blue Force Gear. I think it would allow you to experiment and find what you like. You would need to buy a few attachment points such as a TD-PR4 or a front sight sling swivel, etc... but those could probably be re-sold later on the internet sales forums, if needed.

I have been using a BF sling kit for a few months now and am very happy with it.

Harv
06-08-06, 17:37
Harv,
Are you going to let us in on this trick you learned from Pat?

Thanks,
Forest

Oh Sorry Forest
It's basically turning the weapon Inboard as you lower it to your right-side during transition and the sling helps stabilize the weapon and minimize the weapons ability to bounce while working you secondary weapon.

1911Gunner
06-08-06, 18:24
I understand that Blue Force Gear is coming out with a new 2 point Sling that can act like a single point. They teamed up with Larry Vickers, and the sling is called the Combat Applications Sling. It looks VERY cool. I would love to get my hands on one! If it is as good as their SOC-C, it will be a great piece of gear!

http://www.blueforcegear.com/product.cfm?type=cat&cat_id=5&prod_id=79

ETA: A little late about the Vickers Sling...whoops

Harv
06-08-06, 19:01
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/IMG_0983.jpg

Heres a pic of the Vickers sling in a different configuration. I removed the QD swivel from the VLTOR stock and attached the rear of the sling onto my Single Point sling attachment point.

I've been experimenting with this set up as well on a suggestion from a end user on another board.

Steve
06-08-06, 19:12
Great , I figured you would end up hear too. Now your giving away the boss's secrets..


good to see you harv.

Harv
06-08-06, 20:41
I need role models and places to go to keep me out of trouble...;)

txswat
06-10-06, 20:26
Harv,
I use an MP-5 sling and have it attcahed as you have that Vickers sling. It works well and doesn't get in the way as far as manipulation goes.

SCU70
06-10-06, 20:49
I have used several slings of all types. The two I have used the most are the 2pt. V-TAC and the 1pt Franken sling. I use the V-TAC on my breach gun and the single point on my AR. I also have a wolf hook on the breach gun and the female end attached to my heavy vest and a plate carrier as an alternate point of attachment. This setup has worked well for me so far. Good Luck

Patrick Aherne
06-10-06, 23:47
I've used 1, 2 and 3 point slings for the last five or six years. I now have no three points set up as three points; I taped off my three point on my personal Benelli M1S90 to use as a two point. On our patrol carbines at work, we've switched to single points from BFG. For patrol rifle stuff, the single point seems to work well. At home, I am running a two point on my personal rifle because I use it to shoot at longer ranges than I anticipate having to with the work rifle. I mean, I could, conceivably, have to take a 300 yard shot with the rifle, but I doubt that it will ever happen at work and the 1 point seesm to work good for hop out of the car, run around with the carbine-type stuff.

Basically, it's a piece of gear. Make your gear fit your mission, not the other way around.

Aubrey
06-11-06, 10:02
...
Basically, it's a piece of gear. Make your gear fit your mission, not the other way around.

Well said!

C4IGrant
06-14-06, 15:32
I have been a single point sling fan for a long time, but decided to play around with 2 point slings. So I took one of BFG's Isreali slings and used it with the MI Rail mount and the CQD rear sling mount. What this gives me is a tremendouse amount of flexibility. I can run a 2 point sling and in a matter of seconds convert it to a single point sling! To me, this is the most versatile setup made.

If you want a single point sling, I like the TROY and The BFG UDC. For a 2 point, I like the new BFG/Vickers slings.



C4



http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/Two%20point%20sling.JPG

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/Single%20point%20sling.JPG

SinnFéinM1911
06-14-06, 15:39
I have been a fan of the single / one point sling for a while now. I think im going to try out the Blue Force sling and see how it works !

mark5pt56
06-14-06, 17:16
Well, I just received the BFG UDC and the COntractor Pak from Grant. Awesome gear!
I would recommend them, very useful and versitile.

Mark

Chris Poston
06-17-06, 10:28
Aubrey, I ordered a Vickers/ BFG sling yesterday and will let you know how I like it. Others here and over on 10-8 are more qualified to give an opinion but I will use it in a local LEO carbine class in July and will get back to you.

easy610
06-17-06, 18:22
I have been a single point sling fan for a long time, but decided to play around with 2 point slings. So I took one of BFG's Isreali slings and used it with the MI Rail mount and the CQD rear sling mount. What this gives me is a tremendouse amount of flexibility. I can run a 2 point sling and in a matter of seconds convert it to a single point sling! To me, this is the most versatile setup made.

If you want a single point sling, I like the TROY and The BFG UDC. For a 2 point, I like the new BFG/Vickers slings.



C4



http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/Two%20point%20sling.JPG

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/Single%20point%20sling.JPG


+1. Exactly what I've gone with, only I use a Viking Tac sling as I want to be able to quickly change the length/tightness of sling.

Recent incident at work (LE) required me jumping several fences with my M4 in hand to QUICKLY get to a firing position on a BG. The old single point sling was a pain in the ass as I couldn't quickly slide my rifle around to my back for easier fence climbing. Had to bascially climb or vault each fence one handed with my rifle in the other hand, or thrown it down in the next yard. The second officer running with me wasn't close enough to hand off the rifle and time was tight, plus he was carrying an M16A2....long story.

With the Viking Tac sling, I can swing the rifle around to the rear, tighten/shorten the sling and have my rifle right against my back completely out of the way for climbing ladder/fence/going thru window etc..

Anyway, my .02$.

My first post!

Cheers to all!

tomalibrando
06-22-06, 02:27
This has been a discussion on many a forum. In my agency, a lot of guys ran with the single point. It has a lot of advantages including the fact that the weapon can be transitioned to the support side. It requires (to actually secure it) a weapons catch if you intend to climb/ decend etc. One night, we spent 4 hours looking for an armed suspect in a semi-urban environment with lots of fences. The single point guys hated life. The two point guys simply rotated the weapon to their back whereas the single pointers had to hand their weapons off to the two pointers. Our policy at the job (and a good policy in general) precludes putting hands on someone with a weapon in your hands; tough to do with a single point sling. The job dictates the gear. For vehicle operations, the single point works really well. To avoid the pendulum effect, rotate the weapon outboard on the support side. The mag will generally trap itself against the body and keep the weapon from knocking you in the groin. Special units have been using the single point for some time now with great success. Its a good system. The three point systems have seemed to have gone to the wayside. One cheif complaint is the strap that runs along side the controls on the M4. The other is the inability to get out of the sling in full kit. Having a system (like Grants) that allows versitility is optimum. Either way, determine what the weapon will be used for and equip it appropriately.

Erick Gelhaus
06-22-06, 11:26
Tom-
Good to see you here.

What's up with the sling you were working on?

Erick

tomalibrando
06-22-06, 13:20
I'm still working on it and have develope COLORS for the thing. now it comes in tan and OD. i have changed the buckles out too and increased the width of the strap to 1 1/2 inches. I have been working with Mike at CSM gear for improvements and ideas. He makes a great 1 point as well. thanks for having me. tom

LukeMacGillie
06-22-06, 15:59
Single Points have their purpose, I like them for CQB type work. I prefer my GRC SOPMOD 3 point for patrolling and such.

Avoid single points with pushbutton disconnects, they tend to give out at the worst possible times, like when your being hoisted up into a helo.

Submariner
07-09-06, 08:07
I need role models and places to go to keep me out of trouble...;)

You also need to repost you pic with your shiny new LaRue Hard Mount instead of that soft mount.:D

M4Guru
07-09-06, 13:48
I prefer the VCAS sling, or a VTAC if that's your fancy. Both are functional, high quality products.

A 3pt is a 2pt with extra mag pouch retention, if you pick up what I'm getting at. IMO they are a gimmick. 1PT slings are OK, but they still tie down the front of your kit, as wll as only offering one stabilizing point to the weapon. In laymans terms your gun swings on a pivot point and smacks you upside the nugget and on the knees when running, climbing, fast roping, or other activities of that nature.

YMMV, slings are mostly only a matter of personal opinion. The 2Pt adjustable offers the most advantage for my situation so that's what I use.

Harv
07-10-06, 22:17
You also need to repost you pic with your shiny new LaRue Hard Mount instead of that soft mount.

Just waiting for my new BCM upper with 14.5" Gov profile upper to arrive.....;)

dubb-1
07-10-06, 23:49
Slings are a PITA! They are required for any serious fire stick, however they are all a compromise. I don't think there is one perfect sling. IMO, you have to figure out what your needs are, choose some slings that may fit those needs, and spend some quality time putting them through the wringer.

I run different slings dependent on carbine/"mission", but none is perfect for everything. That said, I have not spent time with Vicker's sling yet, but I'll spare you the drama as to why.

For serious fighters, be that by occupation, defense, hobby, or otherwise, I honestly believe that is necessary to be commited to finding gear that fits, not fitting the gear one finds. Too often, I find people doing the latter. It is another method of "fighting your gear". I won't be so crass as to tell you "it's only money", but I will tell you that you can always get more greenbacks. Have you found a way to manufacture time lost at the range, or, God forbid, at a training class earning the famed moose appendage for something as silly as a $50 piece of kit?

Aubrey, I hope you don't take this as a personal slam, because it is anything but. I think we all need to take a serious look at what we are trying to do, and re-commit to seeing it through.

Submariner
07-11-06, 08:44
I have a two-year-old backorder with LF that will just about cover the cost of a Vickers sling. Right now every carbine in the armory has a Giles SP sling. It is what we have been trained on and works for what we do. Is it perfect? No. Does it "suck" as LAV says on his web site? We'll see. Interesting marketing technique, though.

Aubrey
07-11-06, 12:44
...
Aubrey, I hope you don't take this as a personal slam, because it is anything but. I think we all need to take a serious look at what we are trying to do, and re-commit to seeing it through.

Not at all brother. I agree totally that different applications require different gear; I also understand the compromise issue. One of my intentions in starting this thread was to hear from different folks what has worked (or not) for them and why, so that myself and others might benefit and perhaps not have to expend quite so many greenbacks in our quests for the least-compromised solution for each of us.

militarymoron
07-11-06, 15:37
i completely agree that the choice of sling is dictated by an individual's needs. i've tried all kinds over the years, and keep getting sent slings to review, so i'm quite tired of them, especially when they're very similar.
out of all the slings i have, i keep going back to my home made strap that runs from my weak shoulder to a receiver end plate. works better for me than any single point sling i've tried. it adjusts in length quickly, has a emergency release, and allows shooting from both shoulders and any position without adjustment. does all that i need it to. but then again, look at my needs. i'm a low speed civvie shooter with limited skills and training. sometimes the equipment that works well for the high-speed types doesn't necessarily work for me, since i have neither the ability nor skill (or need) that they do, and i'll be the first to admit that.
as a person's skills and needs change, so will the gear/equipment. that's why we'll always have different options to choose from.
the VCAS did make me rethink 2-pt slings vs 1-pt though, and i'll just have to use it more to see which i like better.

Chris Poston
07-13-06, 21:30
Aubrey : I really like the Vickers sling so far. It has been much easier to use than my CQB solutions slings and seems very well made. I would like to see wider webbing but that is more a personal thing. I had it attached to the buttstock and at the end of the hand guard rail (LaRue rail). I have since moved it off the buttstock and have it temp. fixed to the end of the receiver at the tube. Seems to work better here for me and allows more freedom with the buttstock when moving the rifle around. I have not yet decided what setup to will be my final in this location IE. reciver end plate or PR4 tube attachment. (I am leaning to the PR4).

Eagle1*
07-18-06, 12:41
I just ordered a CSMGear single point sling with the bungee on the one side. I am anxiously awaiting its arrival, as I had a Troy Ind single point sling and it just did not fit me. I will let you guys know how it works once I get it running!

Policetacteam
09-13-06, 02:52
I personally like a single point sling. The Tactical Link X-180 is what I am currently running and I like the flexibility it provides between transitioning from left to right shoulders. http://www.tacticalink.com/Default.aspx