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Ring
12-01-09, 16:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiUqB-LCHhA

Subsonic Suppressed 223 / 5.56
AWC Optima Suppressor
4gr. of TrailBoss powder per http://data.hodgdon.com
Shots in order.
1 55gr Tracer "you cant see this shot, ill make another video of all tracers later. it looked cool as hell"
2 55gr Vmax
3-5 55gr soft point.

decodeddiesel
12-01-09, 16:55
Never seen anyone use 2 hands to cycle an AR :confused:

snafu
12-01-09, 16:59
Nice single shot:D

Ak44
12-01-09, 17:03
Never seen anyone use 2 hands to cycle an AR :confused:

Different strokes for different folks haha :cool:

Ring
12-01-09, 17:18
it "felt" like they were sticking in the chamber

Greg Bell
12-01-09, 17:21
Pretty neat

decodeddiesel
12-01-09, 17:28
it "felt" like they were sticking in the chamber

Interesting. Cool video none the less!

Safetyhit
12-01-09, 17:54
Underpowered, I'd say.

Surf
12-01-09, 19:09
Cool. Good for killin cats and such, stealth like. ;)

Surf
12-01-09, 19:10
Underpowered, I'd say.:confused:

Would you want to get hit by it?

Ring
12-01-09, 19:50
Underpowered, I'd say.



someone on ar15.com did a test, 223fmj subs will go threw a 2" phone book then. Lvl3 vest then stop in a second 4" book

it also went threw 2 or 3 2x4's

don't see. 22lr doing that

C4IGrant
12-02-09, 11:03
We have some REAL .Mil 556 subsonic rounds (given to us by a member on this forum) that were made for a certain Tier 1 group. These actually cycle the gun. ;)

All .223 subsonic rounds are basically worthless (less these ones we got for a .Mil contract). Don't waste your money on them.



C4

MisterWilson
12-02-09, 11:26
.....

Safetyhit
12-02-09, 14:57
:confused:

Would you want to get hit by it?


Underpowered as not enough power to cycle. Assumed that point was evident.

Ring
12-02-09, 15:02
If it had the power to cycle, then it wouldnt be that quiet

Safetyhit
12-02-09, 15:39
it "felt" like they were sticking in the chamber



If it had the power to cycle, then it wouldnt be that quiet



Which is it?

Edit: I should clarify that I have fired sub-sonics that did cycle, so maybe my perception is favorably skewed. But it seems as though you give the impression of conflicting viewpoints, unless I am not giving enough credence to the quotes around "felt".

Artos
12-02-09, 17:00
We have some REAL .Mil 556 subsonic rounds (given to us by a member on this forum) that were made for a certain Tier 1 group. These actually cycle the gun. ;)

All .223 subsonic rounds are basically worthless (less these ones we got for a .Mil contract). Don't waste your money on them.



C4

Why do you think the REAL mil 5.56 loads cycle compared to other subs?? Think you could reload a similar round or do you have to mess w/ springs?? Guessing they use the heaviest bullet available since tragectory will be similar with all.

I really only like the subs in 22lr but think I could see an application for the AR and pigs if they indeed would cycle.:) This would be for a 12.5" sbr / suppressed.

C4IGrant
12-02-09, 17:06
Why do you think the REAL mil 5.56 loads cycle compared to other subs?? Think you could reload a similar round or do you have to mess w/ springs?? Guessing they use the heaviest bullet available since tragectory will be similar with all.

I really only like the subs in 22lr but think I could see an application for the AR and pigs if they indeed would cycle.:) This would be for a 12.5" sbr / suppressed.

Good question. Most sub sonic loads use a 70-80gr bullet and "filler" to replace gun powder. These used a bullet in the 150gr arena (if I remember corrrectly).

I had my gun zero'd for 50yds and had little poi shift from that zero.


C4

Ring
12-02-09, 18:25
Which is it?

Edit: I should clarify that I have fired sub-sonics that did cycle, so maybe my perception is favorably skewed. But it seems as though you give the impression of conflicting viewpoints, unless I am not giving enough credence to the quotes around "felt".

no... useing a AR as a bolt gun, the rounds felt sticky, that would be y i used 2 hands to reload.

a load that has the power to cycle a gun will be louder then 1 that dose not.

Tangotag
12-02-09, 18:38
Ring,
What barrel was used in your video? 5.56 NATO chamber? Will your suppressor when mounted cycle standard M193 rounds?

Artos
12-02-09, 19:00
Good question. Most sub sonic loads use a 70-80gr bullet and "filler" to replace gun powder. These used a bullet in the 150gr arena (if I remember corrrectly).

I had my gun zero'd for 50yds and had little poi shift from that zero.


C4

Good grief...i didn't know a 150gr was even available. I'm guessing it's not over the counter for the reloader?? Talk about bearing surface...Wouldn't you need to move to a much faster burning powder for an oversized pill like this??

Any ideas to aquire components & work up a sub-sonic hand load that will cycle in a suppressed sbr?? I could start testing in Jan. I think this has great potential for the fun factor. One mag for a 50-75yd pig massacre and the other mag ready for any other varmint. Oh man, the wheels are spinning...:cool:

Jason_R
12-02-09, 19:11
Utterly pointless.

Safetyhit
12-02-09, 19:56
Utterly pointless.


As a newcomer, perhaps add something a bit more substantial rather than nothing at all.

Ring
12-02-09, 20:04
Ring,
What barrel was used in your video? 5.56 NATO chamber? Will your suppressor when mounted cycle standard M193 rounds?


223 chamber 1-9
yes with normal loads it works fine with the can

Ring
12-02-09, 20:05
Good grief...i didn't know a 150gr was even available. I'm guessing it's not over the counter for the reloader?? Talk about bearing surface...Wouldn't you need to move to a much faster burning powder for an oversized pill like this??

Any ideas to aquire components & work up a sub-sonic hand load that will cycle in a suppressed sbr?? I could start testing in Jan. I think this has great potential for the fun factor. One mag for a 50-75yd pig massacre and the other mag ready for any other varmint. Oh man, the wheels are spinning...:cool:



hes talking about 308.. i have sub loads for those as well if any of you like

Artos
12-02-09, 20:37
hes talking about 308.. i have sub loads for those as well if any of you like

i thought his post said 556??


If you have a good recipe for a heavy load that will cycle in a suppressed 5.56 sbr, I would like to play around with it for hunting applications. If it requires changing out springs then i'll stick to the 22lr.

Ring
12-02-09, 20:56
i have never scene a subsonic 223 load that will cycle.
your useing 3 to 6 grains of powder depending on bullet and powder type... you wont get the gas volume to cycle properly.

75 and 77 will stabilize in a 1-9 at full speed, but at subsonic, even in a 1-7 you are begging for a baffle strike.

in a 308, useing trailboss, your loads are 9 to 11gr in 150gr to 220gr bullets

some reports of 308 subs cycling

Ring
12-02-09, 20:57
308 Loads
220 Hornady RNSP
10.7 gr of Trail boss
1040 fps
mag primers, win cases
3/4-1" groups at 100

200 gr Lapua Subsonic, 10.0 gr Trail Boss, WLRM, 2.20" O2H
967 fps @ 70F

Come-ups
100 yds, 4.2 mil
200 yds, 9.2 mil
280 yds, 14.2 mil


Hornady 180 RN
Federal brass
Fed 210 primer
8.6gr vv N320
2.635" OAL
Avg vel=1022fps @ 48*F

Case: Federal Gold Medal
Primer: CCI 200 Large Rifle
Powder: IMR Trail Boss
Bullet: Sierra 170gr (30-30) bullet .308 dia. #2010
Starting Load: 9.0gr (980 fps average)
Work Up: loaded to 9.8 (1017 fps average)
Accuracy Load: so far most producing Sub-MOA
Basic Dope:
0'd @ 50yd
75 - 2.25MOA
100 - 4.5MOA
125 - 7.0MOA
150 - 9.5MOA


Lake City Brass (resized and cleaned)
BERGER 155 BT MATCH
TRAIL BOSS Powder
WLR Primers

Ok... Started with 2 Loads

(10) w/ 10 grns OAL = 2.8

(10) w/ 10.5 grns OAL = 2.8

10 grns averaged at 1055 fps

10.5 grns averaged at 1080 fps

10.5 Was VERY accurate even DINGING the 200 yard Steel target.

** Rifle was sighted in at 100 yards using Black Hills 175 BTHP Match Ammo.

With the SUPPRESSOR attached and 10.5 grn load I was EXACTLY 2 MILS low at 50 yards.

and.... 5 MILS low at 100 yards.


Case: LC90
Powder: TrailBoss 9.6
Bullet: 180 RN Hornady
Primer: CCI 250



9.6 Trailboss
FGMM Brass
Sierra 180
210M Primer

A 4 shot group was sub minute.


FGMM Brass
180gr Speer RN
CCI 200
COAL 2.810

11.5gr Trail Boss is giving me 1056fps avg from my 20" 700VS.

9.6gr gives me 1140 with 150gr RN.


Sierra 170gr (30-30 rond nose, flat based bullet)
10.0gr TrailBoss
210M's
IMI brass
OAL 2.70"

10.0grs averaged 1069fps
11.0grs averaged 1106fps

Jimbo45
12-03-09, 11:25
Someone could take a $150 Ruger 10/22, go to Walmart, and buy a $30 Pro-point, and a $3 box of .22LR subsonics, and do essentially the same thing as performed in that video. A bonus would be, that it would most likely cycle, and not be a single shot. I don't get it. Seriously, not trying to be rude, I honestly don't understand what the point is. An AR is a high powered rifle, not a 900 FPS .22.

Ring
12-03-09, 11:41
Someone could take a $150 Ruger 10/22, go to Walmart, and buy a $30 Pro-point, and a $3 box of .22LR subsonics, and do essentially the same thing as performed in that video. A bonus would be, that it would most likely cycle, and not be a single shot. I don't get it. Seriously, not trying to be rude, I honestly don't understand what the point is. An AR is a high powered rifle, not a 900 FPS .22.

guess u didnt read the 1st page


someone on ar15.com did a test, 223fmj subs will go threw a 2" phone book then. Lvl3 vest then stop in a second 4" book

it also went threw 2 or 3 2x4's

don't see. 22lr doing that

they have there place.... if you have a use

Jimbo45
12-03-09, 11:47
guess u didnt read the 1st page



they have there place.... if you have a use

No, I really would have no use for something like that, and to tell the truth, that kind of performance (phone books and 2x4's) doesn't sound all that far off from a .22.

MarshallDodge
12-03-09, 12:07
Interesting.

I always like to see people experiment a little and show their results. :cool:

Ring
12-03-09, 12:38
No, I really would have no use for something like that, and to tell the truth, that kind of performance (phone books and 2x4's) doesn't sound all that far off from a .22.



2" phone book then. Lvl3 vest then stop in a second 4" book

............

crossgun
12-03-09, 12:39
Grant was correct in his original post and statement. The rounds he shot were 150grain subsonic bullets for the 5.56.

Just because you may not have knowledge of everything dont assume that they dont work or exsist.

C4IGrant
12-03-09, 12:46
Grant was correct in his original post and statement. The rounds he shot were 150grain subsonic bullets for the 5.56.

Just because you may not have knowledge of everything dont assume that they dont work or exsist.

Thanks for correcting me. I thought they were 150gr, but then again I have been messing with some 308 stuff and couldn't remember for sure.


C4

Jason_R
12-03-09, 12:56
From what I've seen subsonic 5.56 / .223 just doesn't have enough power at a distance.

There are hearing safe cans for 5.56 when shot dry; what's the point of the subsonic load for one? Not to mention hand cycling an AR just plain sucks.

Ring
12-03-09, 13:08
Grant was correct in his original post and statement. The rounds he shot were 150grain subsonic bullets for the 5.56.

Just because you may not have knowledge of everything dont assume that they dont work or exsist.

pics? who made them?
also you would need a 1-5 twist to stabilize that

C4IGrant
12-03-09, 13:14
pics? who made them?
also you would need a 1-5 twist to stabilize that

I have some rounds left and will see if I can get a pic.

I have not had a chance to shoot them for group, but if I remember correctly, I hit what I was aiming at (which was over 100yds) with a 1/7 twist barrel.



C4

Jimbo45
12-03-09, 13:43
............

OK, I give in. I suppose there is a use for this. If I were a silent assassin, or hitman, and needed to deliver relatively close, very quiet, and fairly low power hits from a manually operated action rifle, then I guess, yes, there is a use. But, that is just not what I own AR's for. I think there are much better platforms and calibers available to accomplish that, for somebody that might have that need. Neat idea, and have fun tinkering with it, but its just not my style.

decodeddiesel
12-03-09, 14:50
From what I've seen subsonic 5.56 / .223 just doesn't have enough power at a distance.

There are hearing safe cans for 5.56 when shot dry; what's the point of the subsonic load for one? Not to mention hand cycling an AR just plain sucks.

To give perspective as to why some might find an ultra-quiet subsonic round appealing...

I used an issued KAC suppressor on my M4 while in Iraq. Often times we used supressed fire from M4s to kill dogs/animals around the perimeter before a night time raid. Obviously a sub-sonic round is far quieter than M855 and Mk262. This means it would be much less likely to alert the occupants of a dwelling that we're capping their dogs and preparing to assault said dwelling.

I would bet money that sentry elimination is the #1 reason why the aforementioned "tier one" unit wanted these ultra-quiet subsonic rounds.

rychencop
12-03-09, 18:59
very quiet, just not practical since it won't cycle.

decodeddiesel
12-03-09, 19:00
very quiet, just not practical since it won't cycle.

There are 5.56 rounds out there that are subsonic and will cycle. Grant outlined this in the thread.

M16MANIAC
12-03-09, 19:20
I think Extreme Shok makes a sub 223 they say will cycle the action on a 16" AR with silencer. It is a frangible round which is not supposed to be fired through silencers so I question if it is safe or not.
Anyone run these before?

87GN
12-03-09, 19:31
............

It was an old Level II vest. Not Level III and age probably was a factor as well.

Artos
12-03-09, 21:36
I have some rounds left and will see if I can get a pic.

I have not had a chance to shoot them for group, but if I remember correctly, I hit what I was aiming at (which was over 100yds) with a 1/7 twist barrel.



C4

I would love to see a pulled bullet next to the case:) You would think they would be the same length almost. the bullet filling the interior of the case would assist in the powder capacity too. Interesting stuff.

Baffle strikes would seem possible with such a long slow bullet.

C4IGrant
12-04-09, 08:33
I would love to see a pulled bullet next to the case:) You would think they would be the same length almost. the bullet filling the interior of the case would assist in the powder capacity too. Interesting stuff.

Baffle strikes would seem possible with such a long slow bullet.


I don't think there is any chance of us pulling the bullet on a $5 dollar round. ;)



C4

Jimbo45
12-04-09, 09:01
I don't think there is any chance of us pulling the bullet on a $5 dollar round. ;)



C4

What if we take up a collection? ;)

Luke_Y
12-04-09, 10:14
I don't think there is any chance of us pulling the bullet on a $5 dollar round. ;)



C4

Aw come on Grant, dont be tight. :p I'm currious enough to send you $5 if you'll pull it and post up pics and info. :)

slustan
12-04-09, 11:19
I think Extreme Shok makes a sub 223 they say will cycle the action on a 16" AR with silencer. It is a frangible round which is not supposed to be fired through silencers so I question if it is safe or not.
Anyone run these before?

From their website:

"The ASP needs a suppressor attached to make it function in full and semi auto mode. ASP will fire in both semi and full auto mode, is not temperature sensitive, and requires no modification to the host weapon."

I personally have never used them, and to be quite honest nothing this company manufactures gets anywhere near my guns.

C4IGrant
12-04-09, 12:12
Aw come on Grant, dont be tight. :p I'm currious enough to send you $5 if you'll pull it and post up pics and info. :)

I only have about 4 of these rounds left and am saving them for a special purpose (UN troops). ;)


C4

Tangotag
12-04-09, 12:26
Grant
Could you tell us the overall weight of the loaded cartridge? Any pics of original box designation of this unobtanium round?

GreyOps
12-04-09, 12:44
I'm curious as well...

rychencop
12-04-09, 13:26
There are 5.56 rounds out there that are subsonic and will cycle. Grant outlined this in the thread.

i'm aware of that. i was commenting on these rounds.

Artos
12-04-09, 13:46
I don't think there is any chance of us pulling the bullet on a $5 dollar round. ;)



C4


wow, that is what my lazzeroni rounds cost & with 99gr of powder and a lazerhead bullet!!

anyway, let's just say these become available to the buying public / reloader...do you think baffle strikes would eventually occure with a 1/7 sbr?? I do understand you haven't had alot time with them but they do have some appeal to me if all you had to do was switch mags and shoot.:cool:

C4IGrant
12-04-09, 13:56
wow, that is what my lazzeroni rounds cost & with 99gr of powder and a lazerhead bullet!!

anyway, let's just say these become available to the buying public / reloader...do you think baffle strikes would eventually occure with a 1/7 sbr?? I do understand you haven't had alot time with them but they do have some appeal to me if all you had to do was switch mags and shoot.:cool:

I did not get a baffle strike when I fired my rounds.


We can most likely get some of these, but never bothered because of the high price tag.


C4

Artos
12-04-09, 14:30
I did not get a baffle strike when I fired my rounds.


We can most likely get some of these, but never bothered because of the high price tag.


C4

Do we know the mfg of the bullet?? Maybe if there is enough demand and get the volume up, we could get the price down....especially for the reloader. I wouldn't be a player at $5 a pop as my application would be pest control only.

The excessive heavy bullet is what has to make this work?? I think the more common pills max out at the 90gr range and not sure if the big boys would jump in for a 150gr 22cal without a decent launch numbers.

Regardless....i think it's pretty slick and has some potential.

C4IGrant
12-04-09, 14:47
Do we know the mfg of the bullet?? Maybe if there is enough demand and get the volume up, we could get the price down....especially for the reloader. I wouldn't be a player at $5 a pop as my application would be pest control only.

The excessive heavy bullet is what has to make this work?? I think the more common pills max out at the 90gr range and not sure if the big boys would jump in for a 150gr 22cal without a decent launch numbers.

Regardless....i think it's pretty slick and has some potential.

Yes and no on the bullet. I know the company that built the round, but don't know if they actually produced the bullet.

I asked about buying a lot of them to get the cost down and really didn't get anywhere.


C4

Ring
12-04-09, 14:47
I only have about 4 of these rounds left and am saving them for a special purpose (UN troops). ;)


C4



measure it, COL
pull it
measure bullet and weigh it
weigh charge

reassemble....

no damage done.

lots of pics

LonghunterCO
12-04-09, 22:06
measure it, COL
pull it
measure bullet and weigh it
weigh charge

reassemble....

no damage done.

lots of pics

I have done that before. It should work...

Artos
12-06-09, 20:23
Yes and no on the bullet. I know the company that built the round, but don't know if they actually produced the bullet.

I asked about buying a lot of them to get the cost down and really didn't get anywhere.


C4

well...i hear crickets.

anyway, i'm sure you know the bs of getting a jacket formed...from a 90 to 150 and seating the core has gotta be special:) we'll get there amigo!!

Logicalpath
06-05-11, 13:05
I am thinking about getting a suppresor for a 6920. A buddy of mine has one setup and was exposing to me that it's not really quite, rather it's just not as loud. We had a discussion about subsonic rounds and he was explaining that while you can get it quite you sacrifice the effectiveness of the round. His explanation was that you might cut the guy(depending on distance) but now he can fire back.

Since having that discussion I have done some research and read much of what has been posted here. As a result my question is, is it worth it to even buy a suppressor? From the extra carbon build up, lubricant spent, money to buy that actual suppressor what is the real benefit if it's not even going to make it quite? Furthermore, I have read some posts explaining how you have to make modifications to the AR's guts just to make the weapon run properly, so I'm hoping I can get some quality feedback and direction.

I realize that I may have misunderstood some of the technical aspects of this subject. Are the modifications Grant explains so that the weapon will function reliably with subsonic? If I ran regular ammo through the 6920 with a Surefire suppressor would I need to make further modifications in order for the weapon to run normally?

Artos
06-05-11, 17:40
every man needs to own a suppressor...especially for 22LR:)

They work amazingly well...I wish I had gotten a good ti 300 can but was on a budget & am stuck w/ 5.56 for now. I shoot a 12.5" fun gun for pigs at night & home protection. About between a 22 & 22 mag but it eliminates muzzle flash, you don't need ear muffs and can communicate in whispers to time shots. SBR's are stupid loud without a can. I personlly would not sub the 5.56 AR. If I was going to can your 6920, I would go ahead and sbr the receiver & cut it down. Carbines with a can get too long for my applications.

You are going to lob in your shots subsonic whether it's a 40gr .22 or 180gr 30cal...the thud is louder than the gun and very fun to play with.

Winchester came out with a 22 cb match in 29gr that is the real deal for short range work. I can shoot rats & rattle snakes real close to the blinds w/out spooking the deer to much

Looks like 300 blackout is the deal for subsonic anyway...I would like to build one of these & a 6.8 in 12.5" as well.

Doubt you will be sorry but be carefull as they make you start thinking of projects...wallet drainers for sure but very fun.

C-grunt
06-05-11, 19:11
Regarding the 150 grn 5.56, I bet if you looked around for a heavier metal for the bullet core, you could get a heavy bullet that isn't too much longer than the 77 grn bullets and therefor would work well in a 1in7 barrel.

Logicalpath
06-05-11, 19:47
every man needs to own a suppressor...especially for 22LR:)

They work amazingly well...I wish I had gotten a good ti 300 can but was on a budget & am stuck w/ 5.56 for now. I shoot a 12.5" fun gun for pigs at night & home protection. About between a 22 & 22 mag but it eliminates muzzle flash, you don't need ear muffs and can communicate in whispers to time shots. SBR's are stupid loud without a can. I personlly would not sub the 5.56 AR. If I was going to can your 6920, I would go ahead and sbr the receiver & cut it down. Carbines with a can get too long for my applications.

What about if I purchased an upper just for the purpose of running suppressed? For example, when I want to utilize the weapon suppressed I just swap out uppers.


You are going to lob in your shots subsonic whether it's a 40gr .22 or 180gr 30cal...the thud is louder than the gun and very fun to play with.

Winchester came out with a 22 cb match in 29gr that is the real deal for short range work. I can shoot rats & rattle snakes real close to the blinds w/out spooking the deer to much

Looks like 300 blackout is the deal for subsonic anyway...I would like to build one of these & a 6.8 in 12.5" as well.

Doubt you will be sorry but be carefull as they make you start thinking of projects...wallet drainers for sure but very fun.

Is this the one (http://www.awcsystech.com/products/suppressors/thundertrap/) you wish you had gotten? And is this (http://300aacblackout.com/) the ammo you are recommending? If so I couldn't find a number or way to order that particular ammo.

My buddy was recommending the Surefire Suppressors seen here (http://www.surefire.com/RifleCarbineSuppressors556mm223Caliber).

Ring
06-05-11, 21:55
The gas system on the ar is what makes it loud... It dumps right next to your head

Put the same can on a bolt gun and it will sound like a pellet gun


If u r looking for a quiet semi, look for the 300 black out vids

Don't bother with sub 223

Or add a piston to your gun.... This will stop the gas noise

I wouldn't look at a surefire for the cash.... Way over priced

On the low end look at a phantom

High end aac

Logicalpath
06-05-11, 22:40
If u r looking for a quiet semi, look for the 300 black out vids

I wouldn't look at a surefire for the cash.... Way over priced

On the low end look at a phantom

High end aac

Now I see the AAC requires threading the barrel, is that a drawback? I've read some posts about people having difficulty keeping the can on after a few shots. On a side note, on their site they make it sound like if you use their supersonic rounds with their suppressor it will still be quite. I didn't think that was possible?

Out of curiosity would the 300 Blackout rounds function with a Surefire suppressor?

bravofour
06-05-11, 22:53
My first deployment we had 100gr subsonic 5.56. One man in the team would carry it in a surefire suppressed M4. It was VERY quiet and worked well for silencing dogs when trying to infill a SKT.

Logicalpath
06-05-11, 22:57
My first deployment we had 100gr subsonic 5.56. One man in the team would carry it in a surefire suppressed M4. It was VERY quiet and worked well for silencing dogs when trying to infill a SKT.

Out of curiosity was his M4 standard issue or was there any modifications to it? I only ask because I've read so many posts where individuals have to overhaul the guts for the weapon to perform normally(when using subsonic rounds).

Ironman8
06-05-11, 23:41
Logical,

To answer a few of your questions:

Should you suppress an AR?

It is totally up to you and what you want to accomplish. Example: for an HD/CQB rifle, overall length of the weapon is my first consideration...which leads to getting an SBR (10.5" if you want the shortest "reliable" length possible)....THEN you have to know that the blast from said 10.5" (especially indoors) is like a mini flashbang going off next to your head...so then you would want to suppress it...what suppressor you go with will also play back into your OAL length consideration....do you want a "mini" suppressor that will at least take the edge off the muzzle blast, or do you want to sacrifice some of the OAL and go with a full sized suppressor....its all up to the user and the niche that that particular rifle will fill.

Are suppressed AR's "quiet"?

Not like in Hollywood....unless you are shooting a subsonic round (more on that later)...but suppressed AR's do other things like eliminate muzzle flash and blast, improve communication in a team environment, conceal your location from the enemy, ect....

Suppressor brands?

AAC and Surefire are the top two in my opinion. For the money, AAC is best. Don't think anyone will argue that point...and no, you don't have to "thread your barrel" as AAC uses a QD system that is very good...unless you actually want a thread-on suppressor (which I don't recommend)

Subsonic rounds?

Don't have as much knowledge in this area as others, but some will cycle, some won't. Period. The ones that do cycle will be a hell of a lot more expensive, but neither will be as ballistically effective as say TAP T2 ammo. For 99% of shooting that you will do, subsonic is unnecessary.

Modifying your rifle?

Shoot, you may have to do this shooting unsuppressed/suppressed/with or without subsonics....just the nature of the beast with ARs...just get your gun running reliably and be done with it

Hope that helps clear up some things for you

Ring
06-05-11, 23:42
All cans are theaded or qd, most qd's use a ratchet type... They won't come loose


Threaded can "should " use a locking type washer

My AWC has a bi-lock washer... But on my bolt gun it's not needed


Watch the YouTube vids for 300blk

Seeing/hearing is beleaving

300 must be shot threw a 30cal can
Aac's 300blk can is smaller then a "308" can

bravofour
06-06-11, 00:09
Out of curiosity was his M4 standard issue or was there any modifications to it? I only ask because I've read so many posts where individuals have to overhaul the guts for the weapon to perform normally(when using subsonic rounds).

Standard M4, just with a Surefire CAM4FA556 flashhider. We didn't see any reliability issues.

Logicalpath
06-06-11, 09:44
Logical,

To answer a few of your questions:

Should you suppress an AR?

It is totally up to you and what you want to accomplish. Example: for an HD/CQB rifle, overall length of the weapon is my first consideration...which leads to getting an SBR (10.5" if you want the shortest "reliable" length possible)....THEN you have to know that the blast from said 10.5" (especially indoors) is like a mini flashbang going off next to your head...so then you would want to suppress it...what suppressor you go with will also play back into your OAL length consideration....do you want a "mini" suppressor that will at least take the edge off the muzzle blast, or do you want to sacrifice some of the OAL and go with a full sized suppressor....its all up to the user and the niche that that particular rifle will fill.

If I go this route, in your opinion would it be better to cut the barrel on the 6920 or just buy a whole new upper(10.5")? If so do you or anyone else have an SBR upper that you recommend for reliability, etc(specifically to run suppressed)? As I mentioned in another thread I'm a bit traumatized from an experience with S&W so I'm scared of anything that isn't Colt.

Also, if I do either cut the barrel on the 6920 or purchase a new SBR upper would I have to purchase two stamps(one for the suppressor and one for the 10.5")?


Are suppressed AR's "quiet"?

Not like in Hollywood....unless you are shooting a subsonic round (more on that later)...but suppressed AR's do other things like eliminate muzzle flash and blast, improve communication in a team environment, conceal your location from the enemy, ect....

Suppressor brands?

AAC and Surefire are the top two in my opinion. For the money, AAC is best. Don't think anyone will argue that point...and no, you don't have to "thread your barrel" as AAC uses a QD system that is very good...unless you actually want a thread-on suppressor (which I don't recommend)

Well the reason I asked about that, according to THIS (http://300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK-infosheet.pdf) they make it sound like you have to thread "it". If you read on the lower right hand corner they're talking about barrel threading, etc. Would I just be better off buying the upper from them and the suppressor? That way I have the whole "kit and kaboodle" in one shot?




Subsonic rounds?

Don't have as much knowledge in this area as others, but some will cycle, some won't. Period. The ones that do cycle will be a hell of a lot more expensive, but neither will be as ballistically effective as say TAP T2 ammo. For 99% of shooting that you will do, subsonic is unnecessary.

If you were shooting inside of your home with a can but with supersonic rounds would it be bearable? I've watched some videos already but there is no explanation on what kind of rounds specifically they're shooting. From what I've read on the SureFire chart is that it reduces it to 137 decibels(that's the highest one) from roughly 158 decibels. Now I don't know much about harmful sounds but that doesn't seem like much to me. And according to what I have read, OSHA tops out at 115db & indicates that it should be for less than 25 minutes. I'm not trying to say that OSHA is reliable most Gov't agencies are not but it's the only information I could find.


Modifying your rifle?

Shoot, you may have to do this shooting unsuppressed/suppressed/with or without subsonics....just the nature of the beast with ARs...just get your gun running reliably and be done with it.

Understood, I've already done quite a bit of adding on but when it comes to the guts of the weapon I am a little leery. I'd almost prefer to purchase an upper for specific situations but I'm still new to most of this stuff and don't know if that's the right way to go.

Finally, thank you for taking the time to explain all of this in detail. My understanding is much better now, there isn't a whole lot of information available on this topic online...outside of these forums anyway. Not just that but my guess is googling most of this stuff get's someones attention, LOL.

Logicalpath
06-06-11, 09:46
All cans are theaded or qd, most qd's use a ratchet type... They won't come loose


Threaded can "should " use a locking type washer

My AWC has a bi-lock washer... But on my bolt gun it's not needed


Watch the YouTube vids for 300blk

Seeing/hearing is beleaving

300 must be shot threw a 30cal can
Aac's 300blk can is smaller then a "308" can

I've actually watched a few but there are no specifications as to what they're running when it comes to ammo. Which is where I am focusing my research, mainly because I've seen so many people post about issues running subsonic. That said, if AAC makes a suppressor that shoots quite with the 300blk rounds & shoots reliably then I'll go that route.

Logicalpath
06-06-11, 09:48
Standard M4, just with a Surefire CAM4FA556 flashhider. We didn't see any reliability issues.

Thanks, I appreciate the information and at least I know that the Surefire is reliable if I can't go with the AAC for whatever reason.

Ironman8
06-06-11, 10:15
If I go this route, in your opinion would it be better to cut the barrel on the 6920 or just buy a whole new upper(10.5")? If so do you or anyone else have an SBR upper that you recommend for reliability, etc(specifically to run suppressed)? As I mentioned in another thread I'm a bit traumatized from an experience with S&W so I'm scared of anything that isn't Colt.

That is really up to you. I know I would prefer to have both, different applications for each barrel length...the problem with cutting a barrel is that now your gas port is out of spec for the now shorter barrel...shooting suppressed "could" remedy this (due to the backpresure), but you might have to play around with it....Noveske, LMT, BCM, DD, Colt are all reliable...I've drank the Noveske cool-aid and I like it :jester:

Also, if I do either cut the barrel on the 6920 or purchase a new SBR upper would I have to purchase two stamps(one for the suppressor and one for the 10.5")?

Yes, unless you weld a suppressor to the end making the "barrel" 16+" (don't recommend that)



Well the reason I asked about that, according to THIS (http://300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK-infosheet.pdf) they make it sound like you have to thread "it". If you read on the lower right hand corner they're talking about barrel threading, etc. Would I just be better off buying the upper from them and the suppressor? That way I have the whole "kit and kaboodle" in one shot?

Yeah I saw that...don't really know what they mean by that. The 762-SDN-6 suppressor that they make for their AAC Blackout definitely uses their QD flash hiders/brakes so I don't know why you would need a thread protector...unless it comes with two separate barrels???

Also, about the 300BLK round, its supposed to be a great round especially for suppressed shooting, but as far as I know, there is only 2-3 loadings for this caliber and the ammo is pretty hard to find an expensive...I personally would wait for the round to either catch on and be mass produced or just die out...



If you were shooting inside of your home with a can but with supersonic rounds would it be bearable? I've watched some videos already but there is no explanation on what kind of rounds specifically they're shooting. From what I've read on the SureFire chart is that it reduces it to 137 decibels(that's the highest one) from roughly 158 decibels. Now I don't know much about harmful sounds but that doesn't seem like much to me. And according to what I have read, OSHA tops out at 115db & indicates that it should be for less than 25 minutes. I'm not trying to say that OSHA is reliable most Gov't agencies are not but it's the only information I could find.

The "OSHA threshold" is 140 dB...most suppressors will put you below that, but inside of a house, I would imagine that it would still make your ears ring...but if you are in a life or death situation where you had to fire inside your house, auditory exclusion would kick in and you probably wouldn't even hear an unsuppressed rifle go off...which is why I am going for a mini suppressor for a 10.5" SBR so that I can minimize OAL while at least dampening blast (about 142 dB)


Understood, I've already done quite a bit of adding on but when it comes to the guts of the weapon I am a little leery. I'd almost prefer to purchase an upper for specific situations but I'm still new to most of this stuff and don't know if that's the right way to go.

Finally, thank you for taking the time to explain all of this in detail. My understanding is much better now, there isn't a whole lot of information available on this topic online...outside of these forums anyway. Not just that but my guess is googling most of this stuff get's someones attention, LOL.

Not a problem...I'm still learning myself. Just read alot and ask questions when you know enough what to ask for ;)



Answers are in red...btw how the hell do you multi-quote a post??? Still haven't figured that out! :confused:

Logicalpath
06-06-11, 10:28
Answers are in red...btw how the hell do you multi-quote a post??? Still haven't figured that out! :confused:

Some vBulletin forums have a multi-quote button(these do not), what I do here is when I quote someone I copy the following code: quote=ironman8;1016393 and put it in these brackets [ ]. When I want to stop the quote I put the following code: /quote in these brackets [ ]. I'll do that throughout the post so that I can break up my responses. There may be a better way to do this on these forums but I have not seen the options for it.

markm
06-06-11, 11:11
Some vBulletin forums have a multi-quote button(these do not), what I do here is when I quote someone I copy the following code: quote=ironman8;1016393 and put it in these brackets [ ]. When I want to stop the quote I put the following code: /quote in these brackets [ ]. I'll do that throughout the post so that I can break up my responses. There may be a better way to do this on these forums but I have not seen the options for it.

Yep. I just manually do it too. I'll hit the QUOTE button on the first reply I want to hit. Then copy and paste that into the other reply I want to quote. Or just manually type the [ QU0TE] thingies and break down the reply into chunks.

Ironman8
06-06-11, 11:22
Yep. I just manually do it too. I'll hit the QUOTE button on the first reply I want to hit. Then copy and paste that into the other reply I want to quote. Or just manually type the [ QU0TE] thingies and break down the reply into chunks.

Haha ok I've done that before, but I was thinking "there's GOT to be a better way!" lol

Toxicodendron
06-07-11, 21:26
Here are the specs. and pics of the SS .223 that I load.

Re size and regular prep of case.
When setting up my SS case's I drilled the flash hole's out to 9/64".
Use Magnum primer's.
77 grns bullet's I use 5.7grns of TrailBoss and 69 grns bullet's I use 5.4 grns.
When loading the bullet I invert it and load the point into the case. I originally shot these out of my suppressed Rem 700 and now also shoot these out of a SwitchBlock endowed upper.

Here is the source that I used to develop the rounds, he is loading SS 762x39 but it can be applied to any rifle caliber.

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/762ProjectRifle.html

LonghunterCO
06-07-11, 22:23
Here are the specs. and pics of the SS .223 that I load.

Re size and regular prep of case.
When setting up my SS case's I drilled the flash hole's out to 9/64".
Use Magnum primer's.
77 grns bullet's I use 5.7grns of TrailBoss and 69 grns bullet's I use 5.4 grns.
When loading the bullet I invert it and load the point into the case. I originally shot these out of my suppressed Rem 700 and now also shoot these out of a SwitchBlock endowed upper.

Here is the source that I used to develop the rounds, he is loading SS 762x39 but it can be applied to any rifle caliber.

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/762ProjectRifle.html

That must have been a huge pucker factor when you pull the trigger on one of those rounds for the first time!

Ring
06-07-11, 23:57
http://www.aacblog.com/?p=9832

vids...