SCAR and Range Report

[joshua79109]

Here's pics of my SCAR. I haven't posted much here, but thought I'd put this up - I didn't see much up with range pics.

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2934.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2935.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2936.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2937.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2938.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2941.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2943.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2945.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2947.jpg

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Here are pics from the first range trip. Put 500 rounds through it with zero failures. The SCAR feels great. The weight is comparable to my ARs, but it is balanced much different. I like the feel of the SCAR.

Prone position
Wind was between 25 and 35 mph
Federal 55 grain (cheap stuff)

The SCAR performed much better than I expected

100 yards Rapid Fire
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3052.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3042.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3043.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3051.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3050.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group 2
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3049.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3048.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group 3
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3046.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3044.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group 4
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3047.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3040.jpg

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Just a few opinions-

The SCAR is very easy to break down and clean.

It stays much cleaner than an AR with the same number of rounds through it.

I currently have 1600 rounds through this SCAR with zero failures.

In case you can't tell - I like it and I'm glad I bought it. I'm very interested to see how it holds up over time and use.

[Ak44]

Cool, thanks for the range report :cool:

[Shark]

Very cool! Iron sights only?

The SCAR is on my wishlist, too.

[RAM Engineer]

If you did that with iron sights only, you must have eyes like an eagle. A target is just a big square for me at 200 yards. Heck, it's just a big square for me at 100 yards.

[99HMC4]

Ive been eye ballin one for a while now. Nice rifle and I love the "tactocal" flip flops...

[Bowser]

Cool.

[Mark71]

Thanks for the range report and pics.

[joshua79109]

Very cool! Iron sights only?

The SCAR is on my wishlist, too.

If you did that with iron sights only, you must have eyes like an eagle. A target is just a big square for me at 200 yards. Heck, it's just a big square for me at 100 yards.

My vision is not that great, but I wear contacts and they correct my vision to better than 20/20.

Not irons on those targets, but it is an Aimpoint. I can't see the center dot of the target, but I can see the target just fine. I do shoot the irons. I really like using the 2moa dot Aimpoint. I haven't been able to use it over 300 yards much yet, but up to 300 yards it's good to go.

Lately I do a lot more practical shooting and practice for 3 gun more than any real distance shooting for groups.


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Ive been eye ballin one for a while now. Nice rifle and I love the "tactocal" flip flops...

I know I should crop my pics, I always get my feet in there. I never thought I'd like flip flops, but my wife bought me those (Crocs) and now I wear them all the time.

[Marcus L.]

I'm still debating getting one myself. With a pricetag around $2500, it's a little difficult to swing being a married man.

What do you think of the reciprocating charging handle? Other than the price, I think this is the primary turnoff for me given the handle's proximity to the support hand should you choose to hold the rifle on the magwell. Some range reports I've heard have had the operator getting some good thumb bashing.

Any chance someone has a picture with such a grip so we can see how the clearance is?

[Moose-Knuckle]

Most impressive! I have read in some of the gun rag reviews that the SCAR is unbelievably accurate out of the box with iron sights.

[VooDoo6Actual]

Nice review thank you.


I'm waiting for the "H"...


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/mk-17-cqc.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/mk-17-scar.jpg

[joshua79109]

I'm still debating getting one myself. With a pricetag around $2500, it's a little difficult to swing being a married man.

What do you think of the reciprocating charging handle? Other than the price, I think this is the primary turnoff for me given the handle's proximity to the support hand should you choose to hold the rifle on the magwell. Some range reports I've heard have had the operator getting some good thumb bashing.

Any chance someone has a picture with such a grip so we can see how the clearance is?

I'll start by saying that because of the issues I read about with the charging handle I spent a long time considering the charging handle issue also. Then once I had the SCAR I spent some more time trying to decide if it could have been placed differently. Not that I'm any sort of expert.

I never fired the SCAR with the charging handle on the left side. I swapped it to the right side during the initial cleaning for a few reasons.

- The support hand issue you mention + the addition of the LaRue mount with the Aimpoint added to the support hand issue

- The 308 semi auto and semi auto shotgun I use have the charging handles on the right side - so for me the handle should be on the right side of the SCAR to KISS

I believe the charging handle (in this configuration) could turn out to be very valuable when a stoppage occurs (not that it's better than the M4/AR). I believe part of the engineering was by request and another part by the addition of a few other hopeful upgrades.

I wondered what this would cause when I transitioned the carbine to my left shoulder, but my grip is no where close to the charging handle. The closest I get to the charging handle is with my left hand fingers when in the prone position.

If no one has a pic I can get my wife to take a pic when she gets a chance.

[joshua79109]

Nice review thank you.


I'm waiting for the "H"...

I also want the "H".

As long as I still like this one as much as I do now I'll get the "H" once I feel like the price settles down from the initial release. Hopefully it will hit the market early next year. I know, I'm not holding my breath.

[Marcus L.]

I'll start by saying that because of the issues I read about with the charging handle I spent a long time considering the charging handle issue also. Then once I had the SCAR I spent some more time trying to decide if it could have been placed differently. Not that I'm any sort of expert.

I never fired the SCAR with the charging handle on the left side. I swapped it to the right side during the initial cleaning for a few reasons.

- The support hand issue you mention + the addition of the LaRue mount with the Aimpoint added to the support hand issue

- The 308 semi auto and semi auto shotgun I use have the charging handles on the right side - so for me the handle should be on the right side of the SCAR to KISS

I believe the charging handle (in this configuration) could turn out to be very valuable when a stoppage occurs (not that it's better than the M4/AR). I believe part of the engineering was by request and another part by the addition of a few other hopeful upgrades.

I wondered what this would cause when I transitioned the carbine to my left shoulder, but my grip is no where close to the charging handle. The closest I get to the charging handle is with my left hand fingers when in the prone position.

If no one has a pic I can get my wife to take a pic when she gets a chance.

Thanks, man. I hadn't thought about switching the handle to the right side. Hrmm......might be a better option.

[bnanaphone]

Very nice rifle and thanks for the review.

I was able to finally handle one over the weekend and they do seem to have good ergonomics. The balance does seem to be different from my 16" AR as well, in a good way. Still debating between one of these and the ACR........when/if it arrives.

[Failure2Stop]

Having the cocking handle on the left side is quite advantageous for a right-handed firer. In the event of a failure to fire it keeps the ejection port downward which reduces the probability of the ejected round from re-fouling the gun. In the event of an obstructed chamber it also keeps the ejection port downward, which permits a more likely occurence of the obstruction falling out right away, and the shooter can easily lock the bolt to the rear by only using the left hand (fingers pull the CH, thumb depresses the bolt-catch), which also makes one-hand only clearance way easier.

[AR15AK47USER]

I just got mine last Saturday. We were picking up a piece of tupperware the wife won at GSSF (took that long for it to arrive) and I saw one on the wall. The wife knew I have been dreaming of one ever since I got to handle it a couple of years ago when the FN rep was in town. Been waiting since then. Anyway, she let me buy it on the condition I keep her supplied with ammo for her GSSF pilgrimages all next year. Payed about $2600 out the door but am quite happy with it. Might have to sell a couple of my ARs to offset the cost though. Still have not shoot it, to much nasty weather here right now to go to the range in the mountains. Been studying the manual and it seems like a pretty simple take down. I will have to see about getting some heavier bullets for reloading though, I mainly have 55 and 62 gr stuff right now. Midway has some Sierra 77gr bullets that look like they may work better.

For those of you looking for a way to get one while being married, make sure your wife shoots. this makes firearm procurement much easier, especially if it is something they may wish to shoot also.

[variablebinary]

Thanks, man. I hadn't thought about switching the handle to the right side. Hrmm......might be a better option.

I've fired my SCAR with the charging handle on both sides. I am right handed, and ergonomically, I think having the charging handle on the left side makes more sense. Also, coming from my XCR, it's just what my brain expects

However, during actual shooting, I prefer the charging handle on the right side. It gets the reciprocating charging handle out my field of view, which I find distracting, and allows me to hold the gun how I am used to without having to worry about my thumb being chopped off (no VFG yet)

I think I just need more trigger time with the SCAR before fully coming to terms with how it works

[YVK]

I've fired my SCAR with the charging handle on both sides. I am right handed, and ergonomically, I think having the charging handle on the left side makes more sense

I've started to run some malfunction drills and now I won't even think of moving CH to the opposite side. Rifle absolutely shines here. Tap-rack-bang drills - you don't even take rifle off target. Double feeds - bolt lock is achieved with support hand only, no fidgeting, and I am faster back on target than with AR.

[joshua79109]

Ran an additional 500 rounds through the SCAR (total of 2100) - so far 0 failures of any sort.

The more I use it the more I like it.

Most of the last 500 were used running drills, but I ran the final 25 rounds at 300 yards for grouping (with good ammo).

My 5 group average (5 shots each) was 2.4".

Ran multiple corrective procedures for possible failures again. I've become very use to the methods used with my ARs and I've been worried about the difference with the SCAR, but so far so good. I'm running the charging handle on the right side to keep it the same as my semi auto shotgun and my semi auto 308. I will keep the charging handle on the right side for this reason.

I'm starting to get use to the feel of the SCAR. I'm still not as quick running corrective drills, but I am a little quicker from target to target. This was the first time I did not reach for the charging handle at the back of the carbine (where it's at on the AR).

[joshua79109]

Now have 3050 rounds through the SCAR with zero failures.

I'm now convinced that the SCAR has less felt recoil and muzzle jump than my favorite mid-length AR. I run the Smith Vortex on the AR and the SCAR and each has the same length barrel (so it's not the brake).

I find the SCAR to be very easy to break down and clean. I would not say it's any easier than an AR, but it certainly isn't any harder to break down and clean.

The SCAR is very quick from target to target and my timing is now faster with the SCAR. I don't believe I'm any quicker with reloads on the SCAR than the AR, but I am a little quicker clearing malfunctions. I've been testing using dummy rounds placed sporadically throughout my mags during practical shooting drills and runs and individually from a bench. I believe that the reciprocating charging handle is a good addition and I believe that once folks get use to it the reciprocating charging handle will be preferred by many.

I am at the point where I'm ready to say I prefer my SCAR to my favorite AR when it comes to actual use. I hope the SCAR will continue to perform for me and will hold up to the use - I currently have no reason to believe it will fail.

I'm considering a 3X Magnifier on a fts mount to accompany the Aimpoint. I've been running the SCAR with Aimpoint out to 300 yards easily, but I think I'd like to push it out a little further and try the 3X.

I've only used the Urban ERT on the SCAR so far and it has been good. I've switched the rear connection from the stock to the adapter quite a few times and I believe I prefer the stock connection so far.

The SCAR is my fourth FNH product. The first three are great performers so I hoped the SCAR would be too. So far it has not let me down. All four of my FNH products have been great, so either I'm lucky or they put out some good products.

[TOrrock]

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your experiences.

I'm jonesin' for a SCAR Mk.17. :cool:

[joshua79109]

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your experiences.

I'm jonesin' for a SCAR Mk.17. :cool:

Same here - I'll wait for the price to level out, but I'm ready for the SCAR in 308. I'm a little worried about the recoil.

[joshua79109]

5640 rounds through the SCAR. Runs and runs. I have to load dummies to practice malfunction drills.

I polished the piston with Flitz for the first time a while back (thanks SgtStrykerUSMC43). The piston is even easier to clean now.

I added the 3X magnifier on a LaRue flip and I really like it. I still haven't pushed out past 300 yards with it for group though. I like irons, so the Aimpoint and magnifier add a lot of weight in my opinion. It seems like they add enough advantage to put up with the weight (for me). The SCAR is still balanced well even with all of the extra gear.

My SCAR is now officially a Coyote killing machine. It eats the light weight ammo just like it does the good heavy stuff.

I've never thought of myself as a fanboy about any certain company, but I believe I just might be a fanboy with FNH. I'm running 3 of my FN firearms hard and they run exceptionally well for me.

[variablebinary]

I've started to run some malfunction drills and now I won't even think of moving CH to the opposite side. Rifle absolutely shines here. Tap-rack-bang drills - you don't even take rifle off target. Double feeds - bolt lock is achieved with support hand only, no fidgeting, and I am faster back on target than with AR.

I've been running my SCAR with charging handle on the right side for awhile now and I prefer it.

I just cant come to terms with the left side placement.

On a side note, the SCAR is a very good weapon, and shoots like a dream. I'm not sure if I would say its all superior to the 6920, but it is a quality weapon.

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/017.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/015.jpg

And just to stay consistent, SCAR needs SBR options ASAP if it hopes to stay in my collection

[pbr streetgang]

how does it compare for weight distribution compared to an m4?

i own a few ar's and and H&K MR223 (416 civie) and i love the weight of my ar's whereas i find my H&K a little muzzle heavy..
hands down my H&K MR223 is a more accurate and reliable rifle than my ar's but im hoping the Scar will be a little more balanced...
Up here in Canada we wont see them till june or so but i do have my Scar 16s on order, and im just looking for the goods on the Scar so i will have an idea of what to expect..

[variablebinary]

how does it compare for weight distribution compared to an m4?

i own a few ar's and and H&K MR223 (416 civie) and i love the weight of my ar's whereas i find my H&K a little muzzle heavy..
hands down my H&K MR223 is a more accurate and reliable rifle than my ar's but im hoping the Scar will be a little more balanced...
Up here in Canada we wont see them till june or so but i do have my Scar 16s on order, and im just looking for the goods on the Scar so i will have an idea of what to expect..

Between a stock SCAR, standard XCR and basic ACR, the SCAR is the best balanced. For example the SCAR and XCR weigh basically the same, but everyone thinks the XCR is heavier, and immediately thinks the SCAR feels really light.

No question the SCAR has vastly better balance than the 14.5" HK416 upper/Colt lower combo I fired. It isnt even close. The HK is a brick.

However, my Colt 6920 is better balanced than all of them, even with a KAC RAS attached. It's tough for any gun to be as flickable as a direct gas as AR15. Gas tubes weigh far less than piston rods :p

[pbr streetgang]

Between a stock SCAR, standard XCR and basic ACR, the SCAR is the best balanced. For example the SCAR and XCR weigh basically the same, but everyone thinks the XCR is heavier, and immediately thinks the SCAR feels really light.

No question the SCAR has vastly better balance than the 14.5" HK416 upper/Colt lower combo I fired. It isnt even close. The HK is a brick.

However, my Colt 6920 is better balanced than all of them, even with a KAC RAS attached. It's tough for any gun to be as flickable as a direct gas as AR15. Gas tubes weigh far less than piston rods :p

thanks for the info, it will come in handy...

I have to say that it's good to get a solid objective reply, as latley i've seen alot of biased mud flinging on this site...but i guess thats what forums are for...

i have AR15's, H&K's, a CZ858, and soon to be an owner of a Scar 16s and they are all great rifles in thier own ways and a guy shouldn't have to deal with static because they have a personal preference..

[joshua79109]

Between a stock SCAR, standard XCR and basic ACR, the SCAR is the best balanced. For example the SCAR and XCR weigh basically the same, but everyone thinks the XCR is heavier, and immediately thinks the SCAR feels really light.

No question the SCAR has vastly better balance than the 14.5" HK416 upper/Colt lower combo I fired. It isnt even close. The HK is a brick.

However, my Colt 6920 is better balanced than all of them, even with a KAC RAS attached. It's tough for any gun to be as flickable as a direct gas as AR15. Gas tubes weigh far less than piston rods :p

Nice post and thanks for the info.

I don't have a Colt, but just wanted to add that my SCAR (set up the same) is better balanced than my favorite midlength AR. It's close though.

[joshua79109]

I recently realized another good reason for running the charging handle on the right side. I've been running the CH on the right side and like it there. I've even run the SCAR on a hood previously, but just realized this additional benefit. I had already considered that the CH could be in the way if resting the SCAR against something on the right side (easy to overcome be properly placing the firearm).

I was in the middle of a stage when I realized that when shooting from cover and the firearm is placed on the ground (flat w/ ejection port up) or something like the hood of a vehicle the CH is not in the way on the right side and would be on the left side. (same side as ejection port)

Here are some reasons I've decided I like the reciprocating CH.

I know that many folks prefer a non-reciprocating charging handle, but I believe some folks will like the reciprocating CH if they give it a good try.

I like the reciprocating charging handle - I run it on the right side allowing bolt release from both sides of the weapon, clear field of view, not against me when slung, and no issues with the Aimpoint/LaRue mount.

With the reciprocating CH -
- I find it to be simple to work malfunctions - when running drills
- I find it easier to spot a malfunction - when running drills due to the position of the CH
- simple design / no extra parts
- same design as my shotgun and 308 semi auto


I would like to see a few different aftermarket CHs. There is one available, but it is not one I'm interested in. I'd like to see one that is built like the Nordic CHs. I would also like to see some that change the angle and possibly drop the ch down a little lower if that's possible.

[joshua79109]

Good news for us that like the SCAR

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/press/detail.asp?id=82

McLean, VA) —FNH USA, LLC received notification from the USSOCOM Program Executive Office—SOF Warrior (PEO—SW) that the SCAR Acquisition Decision Memorandum (ADM) was approved and signed on April 14, 2010, moving this FN Herstal (FN) program into the Milestone C phase. This decision authorizes the production and deployment of the Special Operations Forces (SOF) Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) MK 16 and MK 17, as well as the Enhanced Grenade Launcher Module (EGLM) MK 13.

Following a worldwide solicitation to the military firearms industry, nine vendors submitted a dozen different designs for a new modular, multi-caliber weapons system. The FN SCAR submission was the only weapons system to pass all of the Go/No-Go criteria and was unanimously chosen in November 2004 by the selection board composed of senior operators from every SOF component. The SCAR is the first new assault rifle procured by the U.S. Military through a full and open competition since the M16 trials were held in the mid-1960s. Tests in reliability, accuracy, safety and ergonomics were administered from August 2005 to September 2008 and were conducted in a variety of environments including urban, maritime, jungle and winter/mountain operational test scenarios. The SCAR weapons system successfully endured more than two million rounds of ammunition during these trials, therein making it one of the most heavily tested weapons in the history of small arms.

“The SCAR is one of the most tested small arms in our military’s history and is currently being employed in the fight to defend freedom,” said United States Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. “Products of excellence, like the SCAR, represent the continuation of a long and proud tradition of defense manufacturing in South Carolina. I look forward to the continued use of this weapons system.”

The FN SCAR system consists of two highly adaptable modular rifle platforms and a grenade launcher. Type-designated as the MK 16 MOD 0 5.56mm Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle and the MK 17 MOD 0 7.62mm Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle, both weapons are available with three different barrel lengths optimized for conducting operations in close-quarters combat, standard infantry and longer-range precision fire roles. All SCAR barrels can be easily interchanged by the operator in just minutes to instantly meet the requirements of virtually any mission. The MK 13 MOD 0 40mm Enhanced Grenade Launcher Module (EGLM) quickly mounts under the barrel of either SCAR platform, providing additional capability to the individual warfighter’s firepower, and can be easily configured for use as a stand-alone weapon as well. Because of the SCAR system’s modular design, ergonomic commonality (100%) and parts commonality (greater than 80%), it represents a significant reduction in training costs and life-cycle support. The weapon system’s open architecture is designed to support future advancements in operational requirements including ammunition, aiming devices, sighting systems and other mission critical equipment.

“The SCAR weapons system is a major USSOCOM program whose success is a direct result of the effort, commitment and teamwork provided by FN and the U.S. Government. We are extremely pleased to have had the opportunity to work with such a strong team in achieving the Milestone C decision,” said Mark Cherpes, Vice President of Military Operations for FNH USA. “This milestone signifies that our products are operationally effective and suitable for mass fielding. We believe that the SCAR is the most flexible, reliable and cost-effective small arms weapons system ever offered to America’s servicemen and women, and that it will give them a significant operational advantage in both present and future conflicts.”

FN firearms manufactured in the United States are produced by FN Manufacturing in Columbia, SC. The Herstal Group is represented by FNH USA, FN Manufacturing and Browning within the United States and directly employs more than 1,000 individuals. U.S. operations are located in Virginia, South Carolina, Utah and Missouri. FNH USA is the sales and marketing arm of FN. Its corporate mission is to expand the company’s global leadership position in defense, law enforcement and commercial markets by delivering superior products and the finest in training and logistical support. For more information, or to view the entire line of FN products, visit www.fnhusa.com. FNH USA, LLC, P.O. Box 697, McLean, VA 22101 USA.

[No Bananas]

Those 200 yd. groups are pretty impressive. What optic did you use?


Here's pics of my SCAR. I haven't posted much here, but thought I'd put this up - I didn't see much up with range pics.

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2934.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2935.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2936.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2937.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2938.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2941.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2943.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2945.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF2947.jpg

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Here are pics from the first range trip. Put 500 rounds through it with zero failures. The SCAR feels great. The weight is comparable to my ARs, but it is balanced much different. I like the feel of the SCAR.

Prone position
Wind was between 25 and 35 mph
Federal 55 grain (cheap stuff)

The SCAR performed much better than I expected

100 yards Rapid Fire
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3052.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3042.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3043.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3051.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3050.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group 2
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3049.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3048.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group 3
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3046.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3044.jpg

200 yards 5 shot group 4
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3047.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3040.jpg

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Just a few opinions-

The SCAR is very easy to break down and clean.

It stays much cleaner than an AR with the same number of rounds through it.

I currently have 1600 rounds through this SCAR with zero failures.

In case you can't tell - I like it and I'm glad I bought it. I'm very interested to see how it holds up over time and use.

[macnamara]

Very nice. I'd love one.

[joshua79109]

Those 200 yd. groups are pretty impressive. What optic did you use?


Just a 2moa Aimpoint.

I've now added the 3x mag and have worked up some handloads to try.

I believe I can reduce those quite a bit even with the Aimpoint.

I've been using a method for a while now where I use those circles on the targets. I draw on different sizes for different distances. That has also helped for grouping with the Aimpoint.

I could put a nice scope on it but I have really gotten where I prefer the Aimpoints on my carbines. Still using regular scopes on my long range guns, but other than that it's Aimpoints.

I'll post up some more target pics when I get to the range to test the different loads I have worked up. Hopefully at the end of next week. I've been doing a lot of coyote hunting so I'll make an effort to get back out for grouping. The SCAR is also a good tool for reducing our large coyote population.

[tobasco]

nice pics! the color is really growing on me.

i was going to build an mk19 mod 1, but decided to save up and get a scar for SBR since itll prob cost the same.

[joshua79109]

SCAR16s and Pmags - 2 issues

This is just meant to be helpful for folks like me who had a truck load of pmags prior to getting a SCAR.

The better answer is probably just to buy metal mags. I have a bunch and they all perform perfectly in the SCAR

2 issues I've found:


1 -Drop free: (some do some don't)

I've tested a bunch of pmags now and I cannot find any way to tell what pmags will work and what pmags won't work

Many folks post up stuff that says a certain marking will work or not, but so far I don't find that to be true.


2 - Releasing the bolt from the charging handle

I have old pmags, new pmags, and everything between.

So far none of them will allow the bolt to release by pulling the charging handle to the rear. The pmags work fine using the button to release the bolt, but won't release by pulling the charging handle to the rear. I've not found this issue to be true with any of my metal mags.


I've used a Dremel to work my pmags and they now all perform properly for drop free and they allow the bolt to be released by pulling the charging handle to the rear.

To fix the bolt release issue just copy a metal mag. The pmag is oval shaped at the back of the mag and the metal mag is rectangular in shape. Remove a little of the material at the left of the oval and they perform properly. The oval I am talking about is the point where you would see the primers if the mag were loaded.

Hope this helps

[TOrrock]

Coming from platforms that have reciprocating charging handles, I have no issue with them and see a lot of benefit if they are properly set up.

I like the way the SCAR allows you to choose right or left side.

[Misc Ex-Member]

I would honestly probably set mine up on the right like an AK.

[YVK]

I would honestly probably set mine up on the right like an AK.
While it is understandable to have a consistency in set up between different rifles, you'd lose some benefits that way. I've just gone through a class with mine. First it put to rest many of my concerns with scar ergos including CH. Second, while I was not even close to be competitive to top shooters, there was one thing where I was faster than anybody else - clearing malfunctions. I personally would take that advantage any time.

P.S. I haven't had any issues with loading rifle using pmags - bolt release or ch methods alike.

[militarymoron]

To fix the bolt release issue just copy a metal mag. The pmag is oval shaped at the back of the mag and the metal mag is rectangular in shape. Remove a little of the material at the left of the oval and they perform properly. The oval I am talking about is the point where you would see the primers if the mag were loaded.


i had to do this to all my PMAGs to enable the bolt to be released by pulling on the charging handle (not dropping the bolt with the bolt release). i modified the mag well to allow ALL mags to drop free.

[joshua79109]

i had to do this to all my PMAGs to enable the bolt to be released by pulling on the charging handle (not dropping the bolt with the bolt release). i modified the mag well to allow ALL mags to drop free.

Same here, I probably should have repeated that in that last paragraph, but I did write that up a few paragraphs.

Did you have to take much off the pmag at the oval area? I only ended up taking a small amount off the left side and they seem to run fine now.

[militarymoron]

very small amount on the left side, too. just a few swipes with the dremel to make it more 'vertical'. probably took 10 seconds per mag.

[Stephen_H]

While it is understandable to have a consistency in set up between different rifles, you'd lose some benefits that way. I've just gone through a class with mine. First it put to rest many of my concerns with scar ergos including CH. Second, while I was not even close to be competitive to top shooters, there was one thing where I was faster than anybody else - clearing malfunctions. I personally would take that advantage any time.

P.S. I haven't had any issues with loading rifle using pmags - bolt release or ch methods alike.

I couldn't agree more. While they are incremental improvements to be sure, the SCAR has some nice ergonomic advantages over the M16FOW. One of the biggest is the mid-receiver, fixed charging handle. I wouldn't mind seeing an aftermarket dual sided charging handle for a true ambi set-up, but I plan on keeping mine mounted to the left side (right handed shooter) just for ease of bolt manipulation during clearing, reloads, and malfunction clearance.

Stephen

[joshua79109]

While it is understandable to have a consistency in set up between different rifles, you'd lose some benefits that way. I've just gone through a class with mine. First it put to rest many of my concerns with scar ergos including CH. Second, while I was not even close to be competitive to top shooters, there was one thing where I was faster than anybody else - clearing malfunctions. I personally would take that advantage any time.

P.S. I haven't had any issues with loading rifle using pmags - bolt release or ch methods alike.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you, but your SCAR will release the bolt by pulling the charging handle to the rear when using pmags (not by using the bolt release) - and the pmags have not had any modification?

I'm sure you understood, but the reason I ask this way is because I've had a very large test group of pmags (only 2 SCARs though) and so far I have not found any pmags that allow the bolt to release by pulling the handle to the rear (without modifying the pmags).

I've talked with a some other folks who report the same issue, so far you would be the only person I've found who does not have this issue with the pmag.

If yours do work without modification please post up a pic of one of the pmags at the point I described making the modification so we can compare the difference. And if yours do work how many do you have that work?

As far as what side the CH is on I see it as personal preference. One disadvantage to being opposite of the ejection port it that the firearm can't be used on it's side - as an example when firing under a vehicle that is close to the ground or laying the firearm sideways on the hood. Still just personal preference since many folks would give up that option if it makes them quicker at clearing malfunctions. Being on the right side doesn't make it any slower (for me) clearing malfunctions.

Thanks for the information.

[YVK]

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you, but your SCAR will release the bolt by pulling the charging handle to the rear when using pmags (not by using the bolt release) - and the pmags have not had any modification?

I'm sure you understood, but the reason I ask this way is because I've had a very large test group of pmags (only 2 SCARs though) and so far I have not found any pmags that allow the bolt to release by pulling the handle to the rear (without modifying the pmags).

I've talked with a some other folks who report the same issue, so far you would be the only person I've found who does not have this issue with the pmag.

If yours do work without modification please post up a pic of one of the pmags at the point I described making the modification so we can compare the difference. And if yours do work how many do you have that work?

As far as what side the CH is on I see it as personal preference. One disadvantage to being opposite of the ejection port it that the firearm can't be used on it's side - as an example when firing under a vehicle that is close to the ground or laying the firearm sideways on the hood. Still just personal preference since many folks would give up that option if it makes them quicker at clearing malfunctions. Being on the right side doesn't make it any slower (for me) clearing malfunctions.

Thanks for the information.

Yes, you got me right. After I read your post, I went and checked mine. I have quite a few PMAGs and I don't have time to check'em all. I checked three 30-rounders and one 20 rounder. With all four and bolt locked back, pulling CH releases the bolt and chambers top round.
I am very busy right now so it may be a long while before I can post pics. For what it's worth, they look like regular PMAGs.

I - very respectfully - disagree with you in regards to CH interference when shooting in atypical positions. First, if you truly believe interference with ground or obstacle may occur, you'd have to accept the fact that the side on which the handle is located doesn't matter because , if you changed your CH to ejection port side and then had to shoot it in position with ejection port side down and close to ground, you'd get the same interference, wouldn't you?
Second, I don't think interference with ground is practically possible. CH is about 2 cm long and I don't think I can get that close to a ground. My weapon light protrudes to the side just as much, and sling swivels protrude almost just as much and it hasn't been a problem.
I do see a potential for interference with inside of support arm when shooting in weak side prone. In that case I would have to resort to magwell or mag grip.

Re malfs - as you implied, it is highly individual. As I had mentioned elsewhere in this thread, they are easy for me because:
- for immediate action, tap(push/pull)-rack-bang is performed without taking rifle off the target
- for remedial action, the bolt is locked back and entire malfunction is cleared without losing master grip with strong hand.

[joshua79109]

Yes, you got me right. After I read your post, I went and checked mine. I have quite a few PMAGs and I don't have time to check'em all. I checked three 30-rounders and one 20 rounder. With all four and bolt locked back, pulling CH releases the bolt and chambers top round.
I am very busy right now so it may be a long while before I can post pics. For what it's worth, they look like regular PMAGs.

I - very respectfully - disagree with you in regards to CH interference when shooting in atypical positions. First, if you truly believe interference with ground or obstacle may occur, you'd have to accept the fact that the side on which the handle is located doesn't matter because , if you changed your CH to ejection port side and then had to shoot it in position with ejection port side down and close to ground, you'd get the same interference, wouldn't you?
Second, I don't think interference with ground is practically possible. CH is about 2 cm long and I don't think I can get that close to a ground. My weapon light protrudes to the side just as much, and sling swivels protrude almost just as much and it hasn't been a problem.
I do see a potential for interference with inside of support arm when shooting in weak side prone. In that case I would have to resort to magwell or mag grip.

Re malfs - as you implied, it is highly individual. As I had mentioned elsewhere in this thread, they are easy for me because:
- for immediate action, tap(push/pull)-rack-bang is performed without taking rifle off the target
- for remedial action, the bolt is locked back and entire malfunction is cleared without losing master grip with strong hand.

Thanks for checking your pmags. I wonder what the difference is that allows yours to perform properly without modification. I'll keep digging for answers for the rest of us.

Anyone else out there that does not have to alter the pmag to allow the bolt to release by pulling the handle to the rear? I'd really like to find out what is different here.


To the CH interference. I really do believe there are good reasons both ways and just comes down to personal preference. It looks like a difference in our opinions is the use of the firearm on the ejection port side. I'd never attempt to use the firearm with it laying on the ejection port (with the ejection port covered), so that's probably the main reason I see it differently. I also don't ever place my ARs on the ejection port side, so I run the SCAR the same as I have always trained with my ARs. I guess their might be a lot of folks that would place a carbine on it's ejection port side, but I learned not to and have stuck with that theory. I do believe that no matter what side the handle is on that it could cause a short stroke by impacting or tangling something like a pack or rocks or the hood of a car with the carbine placed in just the wrong place. I see this as one of those things where there is room for difference in opinion - no one right answer. I'm just happy it moves to both sides so everyone can pick for themselves.

Thank you again for taking the time to check some pmags. If you get another free minute, I'd appreciate any help you can provide to figure out why your pmags perform properly without modification and others don't.

[YVK]

So I am clear on this: I am trained not to shoot carbine laying on either side of its receiver, ejection port up or down. Even if it is around obstacle/close to ground, it is still gets supported. Rail can touch the obstacle/barricade etc., but not receiver - that's why I am not much concerned with CH interference, regardless which side it is positioned.

I'll have to check on all of my PMAGs now before reporting back just to see if I find any that wouldn't "work" with CH. My guess is that perhaps some of them have more relief in that "V" area than others. There is fair amount of variance in those mags, as exemplified by some of them dropping free and some not.

[joshua79109]

So I am clear on this: I am trained not to shoot carbine laying on either side of its receiver, ejection port up or down. Even if it is around obstacle/close to ground, it is still gets supported. Rail can touch the obstacle/barricade etc., but not receiver - that's why I am not much concerned with CH interference, regardless which side it is positioned.

I'll have to check on all of my PMAGs now before reporting back just to see if I find any that wouldn't "work" with CH. My guess is that perhaps some of them have more relief in that "V" area than others. There is fair amount of variance in those mags, as exemplified by some of them dropping free and some not.

It's been great discussion on all of this, thank you.

Please do let us know the outcome with your pmags.

Thanks again

[YVK]

It's been great discussion on all of this, thank you.

Please do let us know the outcome with your pmags.

Thanks again

12 pmags representing, with exception of 2009, every production year from 2004 till 2010; no issues releasing bolt with either method - pulling ch or hitting the paddle.

[joshua79109]

12 pmags representing, with exception of 2009, every production year from 2004 till 2010; no issues releasing bolt with either method - pulling ch or hitting the paddle.


Thank you for posting up.

I've got to figure this out. I wonder if it has more to do with the SCAR or the pmags. I seems very unlikely that that your pmags would all be different than mine.

Would you have time to compare the internals of your SCAR to pics of mine if I post them up?

Anyone else have a report either way?

Thanks

[YVK]

Would you have time to compare the internals of your SCAR to pics of mine if I post them up?



Certainly. I don't have enough time to take / post photos but exam and reporting are no prob.

[militarymoron]

interesting. maybe there's a difference in the bolt catch levers. can't think of anything else since we now have people with SCARs that work 100% with all pmags or 0% with all pmags when it comes to releasing the CH on a loaded mag. as mentioned before, i had to relieve a dozen pmags. i checked them all before relieving them, and they all pushed the bolt catch up, even without the follower.

[joshua79109]

Certainly. I don't have enough time to take / post photos but exam and reporting are no prob.

I've run into a fella on another site who is getting the same results you are, so I'm going to look into digging into the differences in the SCAR. He explained that he has over a hundred pmags and none of them have the bolt release issue (with CH).

Anyone else with info please post up.


Thank you for taking some time and I'll post up more info soon.

[YVK]

Since we're looking into mag compatibility issues, maybe you gents can report how Lancers behave in your SCARs. I have a completely opposite to your PMAG issue with Lancers: I can't drop bolt using bolt release and have to run CH to do it. Also, bolt doesn't lock back on empty Lancers and they don't drop free.

[joshua79109]

Since we're looking into mag compatibility issues, maybe you gents can report how Lancers behave in your SCARs. I have a completely opposite to your PMAG issue with Lancers: I can't drop bolt using bolt release and have to run CH to do it. Also, bolt doesn't lock back on empty Lancers and they don't drop free.

I'll ask around locally to see if anyone has some I can look at. I don't have any. I'll see what I can come up with.

[joshua79109]

Took some measurements and pics.

My measurements:

Catch width - .105"

The gap on each side of the catch is .049". It looks to me like the gap on the paddle side is slightly larger, but when I measure I get the same measurement on both sides. It's a small gap, so I could be getting a bad measurement.

Looking into the ejection port at the catch with the pmag and metal mag it is easy to see why the issue does not happen with the metal mag performs properly and why the issue is there with the pmag. It is just a small amount of material that keeps the catch from releasing and that's why taking a little bit off the pmag works. It seems that if the catch was moved slightly (away from the paddle) or if it were slightly smaller in width the pmags would perform properly.


For those looking into this, how does this compare to yours?

It seems that the answer is related to the SCAR and if so I doubt I'll do anything about it. I'll just have to decide if I want to continue to modify pmags or not.

Thanks

My pics:

Metal mag next to pmag

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3568.jpg


Pmag in SCAR - looking at catch

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3563.jpg

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3566.jpg


Metal mag in SCAR - looking at catch

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3572.jpg

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3574.jpg


Catch at different angles with lower removed

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3583.jpg

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3578.jpg

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3579.jpg

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/DSCF3581.jpg

[Failure2Stop]

... but I plan on keeping mine mounted to the left side (right handed shooter) just for ease of bolt manipulation during clearing, reloads, and malfunction clearance.


I whole-heartedly agree.
Being able to lock the bolt to the rear with one hand (either hand) is a huge benefit, and something that I expect to see on any new weapon that wants to be taken seriously.

[YVK]

Joshua79109: I took a look at mine and I can't find much of a difference from yours. Perhaps I am not seeing what you are seeing. Dimensions appear the same. My Pmags look exactly like yours so it must be rifle. The only possible difference is that it appears to me that my catch has a bit more of "travel": your second to last pic where you pressing on as if you're trying to lock bolt back - it seems that in this position bolt catch on mine protrudes a bit higher.

[joshua79109]

Joshua79109: I took a look at mine and I can't find much of a difference from yours. Perhaps I am not seeing what you are seeing. Dimensions appear the same. My Pmags look exactly like yours so it must be rifle. The only possible difference is that it appears to me that my catch has a bit more of "travel": your second to last pic where you pressing on as if you're trying to lock bolt back - it seems that in this position bolt catch on mine protrudes a bit higher.

Thank you for taking your time to look at that - I appreciate it.

I'll think on that to see how that would change the function.

Thanks Again



Anyone else with any ideas please chime in.

[YVK]

N

I'll think on that to see how that would change the function.



I don't think it does. The more I think of this the more I believe it is a matter of tolerance stacking. You mentioned thickness of pmags. What about minute differences in magwell wall thickness and dimensions? Positioning pmag a fraction to the left (towards paddle ) could make all the difference.

[joshua79109]

N

I don't think it does. The more I think of this the more I believe it is a matter of tolerance stacking. You mentioned thickness of pmags. What about minute differences in magwell wall thickness and dimensions? Positioning pmag a fraction to the left (towards paddle ) could make all the difference.

I bet you're right I'd bet there is a difference in the measurement from the side of the magwell to the outside of the catch. It wouldn't take much since I had to remove very little off the pmag to make it work.

Thanks Again

[dancinzen@hotmail.com]

wow.. thanks for the report and thats awesome accuracy and especially for just a red dot! i am very impressed!

[joshua79109]

SCAR is now a little over 7440 rounds.

Here is a few targets from my last range session. This was after 380 rounds were run through it. Still running the 2moa Aimpoint and 3X mag.

200 yards off a pack
60 grain Hornady VMax and Win 748


12 rounds
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/Tgt.jpg



10 rounds
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/joshua79109/Tgt2.jpg

Now I'm to the point of hoping the 17s runs as good as the 16s.