View Full Version : which .308/.762 AR and why
I'm wanting an AR in .308 which one's are good and which are not...kind of looking at LMT but I know there are others out there... need some input here...
looking to spend $2000-$3000 range....
Thanks
LMT, LaRue, POF, LWRC, DPMS, Armalite, Iron Ridge, Fulton....etc
Do not link to sale items on other boards. Thanks.
- SHIVAN
I went with the Larue. I really like how it felt when I handled it a SHOT. I like that I can get it in 18" and that it takes standard 308 magazines, i.e KAC.
VooDoo6Actual
02-19-10, 11:13
I'm using a Noveske N6 14.5" w/ NF 1X4X24 FC-2 Ret. right now on a Saudi Protective detail in Vegas.
Why ?
It runs and shoots superbly.
I run 168 & 175 gr w/ no issues whatsoever w/ gen 2 mags etc.
Good luck on your quest.
HTH....
...standard 308 magazines...
On the face of it, this is just a silly statement. Popular mags? Used by several vendors? Absolutely true.
Standard? Hardly.
RRA LAR-8 uses FAL inch & metric
Bushmaster 308 uses FAL inch & metric
ArmaLite AR-10B uses modified M14 or Checkmate GenII (aka AR-10B)
Noveske uses modified M14 or Checkmate GenII (aka AR-10B)
Sig716 modified M14 or Checkmate GenII (aka AR-10B)
CMMG offers two lowers that use G3 and AR-10B
I'm wanting an AR in .308 which one's are good and which are not...kind of looking at LMT but I know there are others out there... need some input here...
looking to spend $2000-$3000 range....
Thanks
For what use? Battle rifle? Plinker?
geminidglocker
02-19-10, 11:57
How about neither, and this is why. The Springfeild M1 and the FAL are much better platforms for the .308/7.62. For 2000-3000, just immagine the FAL you could build.;)
My choice would be for the LaRue OBR for the simple fact of all of the glowing reports coming in regarding it's reliability. Not a simple task with the .308 AR platform.
shakazulu12
02-19-10, 15:02
For what use? Battle rifle? Plinker?
Best response so far really.
Surprised nobody's suggested a custom build from GAP... that'd be my first choice in the price range.
For what use? Battle rifle? Plinker?
Yeah, really. Do you want a hard use battle rifle, a precision bench rig, or something that performs double duty?
QuietShootr
02-20-10, 13:04
I think the LMT is a no-brainer at this point.
The SR25 magazine IS the new standard. No matter how you slice it, a modified M14 magazine is a compromise at best. And now that SR25 PMags are available, that pretty much seals the deal.
ETA: the Bushmaster and Rock River guns are not serious fighting guns. The bolt geometry required to make the FAL magazines work results in a weakened bolt that is prone to breakage. I broke two on the Bushmaster BAR-10 I had before I sold it.
The Noveske is an Armalite, and G3 magazines? The only advantage there is the cost. No BHO with a G3 mag. The KAC's price is just insane, the POFs and DPMSs are junk, and the REPR is over a thousand dollars higher than the LMT - and nearly every one sold around here has had issues.
The LMT is unproven yet, but considering LMT's reputation and coupled with its adoption by the Brits, I suspect that any zits it might have will be ironed out in very short order.
And despite how much you AR10 fanbois don't like it, the SR25 magazine IS the new standard.
The fact of the matter is, there are current models in the "308 AR" family that do not accept the SR25 pattern magazine. Therefore, it can hardly be called a standard "308 AR" magazine.
No matter how you slice it, a modified M14 magazine is a compromise at best. And now that SR25 PMags are available, that pretty much seals the deal.
If you are going to disparage a design, it might be best to keep up with what is going on with the magazine you are disparaging. For at least the last four years, ArmaLite has been using a purpose built magazine, referred to as the GenII, made by Checkmate specifically to their specs, and specifically for their guns.
It does not use surplus M14 bodies, and has incorporated several changes that precludes it's use in the M14. Including a rib down the spine of the magazine and a bolt hold open feature similar to an M4, but a follower that is complete different from an M14 or a GenI AR10B magazine.
From the standpoint of your comparison, you would so easily dismiss weapons such as the FAL, M14, G3, or HK417 because they use a proprietary magazine that does not fit an SR-25?
Vendors were smart to hitch their horse to an unprotected magazine design of an adopted military weapon, no doubt about it. Imitation of a successful design does not ensure success, and it certainly doesn't make it "standard". It does make it a very savvy business move.
QuietShootr
02-20-10, 13:46
The fact of the matter is, there are current models in the "308 AR" family that do not accept the SR25 pattern magazine. Therefore, it can hardly be called a standard "308 AR" magazine. Accept by those who wish to inflate the importance of their favored platform.
If you are going to disparage a design, it might be best to keep up with what is going on with the magazine you are disparaging. For at least the last four years, ArmaLite has been using a purpose built magazine, referred to as the GenII, made by Checkmate specifically to their specs, and specifically for their guns.
It does not use surplus M14 bodies, and has incorporated several changes that precludes it's use in the M14. Including a rib down the spine of the magazine and a bolt hold open feature similar to an M4, but a follower that is complete different from an M14 or a GenI AR10B magazine.
From the standpoint of your flawed comparison, you would so easily dismiss weapons such as the FAL, M14, G3, or HK417 because they use a proprietary magazine that does not fit an SR-25?
Vendors were smart to hitch their horse to an unprotected magazine design of an adopted military weapon, no doubt about it. Imitation of a successful design does not ensure success, and it certainly doesn't make it "standard".
The FAL magazines are fine in a FAL. The FAL's bolt was designed to work with them, and it isn't weakened because of it. The idea to put them in an AR was a decent one back during the ban, because FAL mags were plentiful and cheap, but there's no reason for it now. Same situation with the M14, only the magazines were never cheap. For all the other stuff that is wrong with it, the Garand action is hell for strong.
The G3 is a good step in the evolution of the 7.62 rifle, but its lack of BHO is a flaw IMO. I actually prefer its action to all the others, given my druthers, but no one is going to build a modern rifle on the MG42-type action, more's the pity. If it HAD a BHO, I'd probably buy another one. There's really nothing wrong with its mags other than they lack a mechanism for actuating a BHO.
I do NOT know why the 417 would use a proprietary magazine, other than the standard "We're HK, and we hate you" concept. From a civilian point of view, an HK proprietary mag is just about a deal breaker. I like to have literally hundreds of magazines around for any rifle I think of as serious, and I have no doubt HK is going to want $50-$60 apiece for those. Good for HK, bad for the consumer.
shakazulu12
02-20-10, 13:59
Just to play along, I went with an Iron Ridge complete lower unit (Armalite) and am currently debating whether to buy an Iron Ridge stripped upper and send it to Gap to be completed or buy a Noveske upper and just slap it on. Going with an 18" barrel which will be perfectly fine at the 600 yard ranges I have access to, but will save a little weight over the 20" and up versions.
Idea being a precision based rifle that can be used somewhat all around and for hog hunts etc. But in reality, its going to spend 95% of its life punching paper and steel.
There are tons of great options out there right now though, the .308 platform is really exploding over the past few years and a lot of things have changed even only recently with them.
I know you posted about an AR platform 7.62/.308 rifle. But with your budget, I'd submit that you shouldn't rule out and FAL pattern rifle like the DSA SA58. See this article (http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/battle-rifles/) by Larry Vickers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Battle%20Rifle%20Class%209-01-07/Day%201/DSC00196.jpg
Also, see Teach me about the FAL (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33079) (where photo was posted).
For your budget, you could get a DSA SA58 carbine, DSA Extreme Duty Scope Mount, optics of your choice, magazines which are fairly cheap when compared to other platforms, and a bunch of ammo and perhaps some money left over for a carbine class.
For an AR patterend 7.62/.308, the Larue OBR looks like the new front runner.
a FN 50.00 and a 50.41 HBAR years ago kick myself for letting them go too... I may go that route thats why i was asking about the AR-10 platforms... The only thing i see with AR-10 style is there is no real standard they all go by like the AR15/M16....
a FN 50.00 and a 50.41 HBAR years ago kick myself for letting them go too... I may go that route thats why i was asking about the AR-10 platforms... The only thing i see with AR-10 style is there is no real standard they all go by like the AR15/M16....
Then my short list would be the LaRue LT762-16 OBR, Noveske N6 16", and KAC SR25 Carbine.
....there is no real standard they all go by like the AR15/M16....
That's exactly right, and it really won't matter too much unless you decide to buy an SR-25 AND an ArmaLite.
At that point, you couldn't double-dip on the mags. Which, let's be honest, isn't likely or uncommon.
What I mean is that an M&P45 does not take the same mags as a Glock 21 or 1911, yet many of us might own both. Or a Hipower doesn't take G17 mags.
So really, you need to boil down the features and pricing you like, and jump in.
I really prefer the features to pricing model that ArmaLite uses. For a few bucks more than the DPMS you can have chromelined bores and chambers or equivalent/better SS barrels and a lifetime warranty.
If you want a blaster, that you run hard and put away wet, I think the FAL suggestion above may be more in line with your desires, though I know you can get an ArmaLite 16" carbine to run well, I just doubt most 308 ARs will run with an FAL all day long if you backed up a Komatsu 930E of 7.62 NATO and said, "Have at it..." You may find one or 100, but the odds are probably against you in the grand scheme of things.
http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/Komatsu_930E_JPG.JPG
Maximum Capacity: 320 tons of ammo
:D:D:D
I've run my 16" DSA FAL for many years and am sold on the platform. Thus far I've only used the iron sights so I don't really notice the accuracy decrement. Due largely to the endorsment from someone on this site, I just ordered the DSA scope mount for it. I've been experimenting with the AR10 platform for about a year now. I've had both 18" and 16" Noveske N6s as well as 16" Armalite chrome lined AR10. All have ran flawlessly, though I will admit, I haven't run the N6s hard by any means. Sold the Armalite when my N6s came in. Now I'm replacing the 18" N6 with a another Armalite 16" CL. The 16" N6 does everything I need without the extra weight/length of the 18".
VooDoo6Actual
02-21-10, 13:09
As this thread evolves a couple of thoughts come to mind.
I based my response predicated on how your initial question was formatted.
I own FAL's, Sage EBR and AR10.
imo, FAL's do not have the consistant accuracy of an AR10 & Sage EBR.
M1A (and it's hybrids etc.) & FALs are heavier (piston components etc.)
imo, If your lugging it around all day/night patrolling/hunting you will feel the difference. I do.
If your just pulling up your rig unloading KIT and shooting it's not an consideration.
My AR10 (14.5") weighed in @ 8.25 lbs. w/ empty mag (sans ammo, scope, scope mount, etc.) imo, Acceptable within Battle Rifle specs.
SR25 EM @ approx. 5K is excellent but cost prohibitive by your own perimeters.
imo, define your needs as was previously mentioned.
Think i'm going to go with a FAL for now... I see used DSA for pretty reasonable prices... And mags are are reasonable too... Hell for what I want to spend could probally pick up 2... I really would like a original AR-10 but don't want to have to give up my first born or soul to get one... What i think would be cool is if someone would bring back a copy of a Armalite AR-16... Ever sense I read The Black Rifle I've been fascinated with the weapons that the original Armalite company produced... Way ahead of there time... Thanks again all for the great info!!!!
Carl
The two 7.62x51mm AR systems that I would currently feel comfortable using in GP, non-dedicated DMR/sniper roles are the LaRue OBR and KAC SR25 EM--probably topped with one of the new 1-8x optics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/CQBSS1sredit.jpg
When you build several thousand government 7.62mm guns you learn a thing or two...
Yes our guns are expensive, we are trying to lower the price as best as we can, and this years guns are 100x the guns where of old, and cheaper than the last few years.
The SR-25 mag is the 7.62mm standard these day, as its in Military usage.
The SR-25 mag is the 7.62mm standard these day, as its in Military usage.
So the M9 mag is the standard 9mm pistol mag? I would argue that millions of G17/G19/G26 users would beg to differ. Hipower and CZ75 users too. I'm sure you can see where this assertion can be challenged with common analogous comparisons?
Aren't your former comrades in arms still using the AR-10? Last we talked, specifically on that subject, they were still fielding them, but that may have been a year ago+. I know that DOS uses them, but that's not military.
Uk uses both SR-25 and now LMT .308 - both SR-25 Mag, and Hk417
Italy - SR-25 and Hk417
Canada - SR-25, AR10, Hk417
Australia - SR-25
US Mil - SR-25
DOS - SR-25
DOE - SR-25
My point being, is the SR-25 mag is pretty much the accepted standard for a current .308 gun.
I don't understand why anyone would make a non standard mag is in this system
So the M9 mag is the standard 9mm pistol mag? I would argue that millions of G17/G19/G26 users would beg to differ. Hipower and CZ75 users too. I'm sure you can see where this assertion can be challenged with common analogous comparisons?
Aren't your former comrades in arms still using the AR-10? Last we talked, specifically on that subject, they were still fielding them, but that may have been a year ago+. I know that DOS uses them, but that's not military.
Gosh, can't the Canucks get any love....
I'm wanting an AR in .308 which one's are good and which are not...kind of looking at LMT but I know there are others out there... need some input here...
looking to spend $2000-$3000 range....
That's a big budget. I just built, if you count snappinig the upper half to the lower half together, an Armalite AR10 for $1010. Add to this the cost of 10 magazines at $275. I still have to get a scope and mount though. And yes, the upper does have a chrome lined barrel. I'm sure my setup isn't the top of the line best, but it's going to be pretty accurate. Armalite has been making AR10's for a while now, so I'm expecting it to be reliable too. Of course, this is just an example. You may be able to get a quality FAL for the same or less. My point is that you don't have to spend up to $3000 to get it done. Good luck and be sure to post pictures of your new baby.
My point being, is the SR-25 mag is pretty much the accepted standard for a current .308 gun.
You know, you're right. "Perception is reality" and the SR-25 pattern rules the roost for .308 AR mags adoption.
I don't understand why anyone would make a non standard mag in this system
I have addressed this concern and desire to every level of person at ArmaLite, even talking to Westrom at SHOT two or three years ago, and they are being completely oblivious to it. I told them, and even had a bunch of other AR-10 owners tell them via email, that if they made a whole separate line of lowers that still worked with the existing AR-10 uppers but took "SR-25" mags, we would buy the new guns just to support a forward thinking approach.
Instead, they tackled the AR-24 pistol project and tried to bring another 7.62x39 AR to market -- even though most of the other ones have failed miserably. :(:(:(:(
My point being, is the SR-25 mag is pretty much the accepted standard for a current .308 gun.
I don't understand why anyone would make a non standard mag is in this system
Point noted, but up until recently, your mag (KAC) has been the only one available magazine without a spotty reputation. Approaching one bill a copy, most of the most of the DPMS crowd that flock to that mag pattern have no intestinal fortitude for such things.
As an HK93 lover, I know a thing or two about paying for mags, but many wouldn't give the rifle a second look soley because of the price of mags. You hear alot of "If they made one that took AR mags". Geeesh, then it wouldn't be an HK93! Sig catered to that calling, and the purists hate them for it.:rolleyes:
BTW, that SR25 EM is bad ass. One of those would justify it's way into my collection if I didn't live where I do.
No Bananas
02-23-10, 11:19
A quick question on the AR-10s. Before the ban ended their barrels (at least what wasn't under the handguard) was medium or heavy. Now, it appears that the standard CL barrel is a "pencil barrel." I think that Armalite says to expect accuracy of 1.5-2 MOA. What are the real world specs?
LMT & Larue have a great reputation. Time will tell how they preform.
Any further info on the LMT's release date?
A quick question on the AR-10s. Before the ban ended their barrels (at least what wasn't under the handguard) was medium or heavy. Now, it appears that the standard CL barrel is a "pencil barrel." I think that Armalite says to expect accuracy of 1.5-2 MOA. What are the real world specs?
In reality, it depends on the ammo and the shooter. The gun is easily capable of 2 MOA using a magnified optic and shooting for accuracy with a sling in prone, or on a bench with bags.
I've shot some ammo in my AR-10's that simply would not group for shit, but the gun did using other ammo.
I'd say those specs are easily achievable in any ArmaLite AR-10, easily.
I'm partial to the Armalite pattern rifles. I've got a slew of 20 and 25rd mags and got all of them for about $30 a piece during their sales. I don't see how the magazines are an issue since they are affordable reliable, and available. Until Magpul came out with a KAC pattern mag you couldn't get a reliable 20rd mag for the same price for the other platforms. The DPMS guns are typical DPMS; low quallity. I'm sure the LaRue and SR-25s are great rifles (man I want an M110, but would probably never be able to buy one at current prices. If I saved up that much I'd probably just save a bit more and get a transferrable M16/RDIAS) but for a small fraction of the price I've gotten excellent accuracy and reliability from my AR10. If I were rich, I'd definitely have a KAC or two but that doesn't mean I would shy away from the AR10.
I'm using a Noveske N6 14.5" w/ NF 1X4X24 FC-2 Ret. right now on a Saudi Protective detail in Vegas.
Why ?
It runs and shoots superbly.
I run 168 & 175 gr w/ no issues whatsoever w/ gen 2 mags etc.
Good luck on your quest.
HTH....
Hoplo, that's a rock solid setup right there. NF Scopes are quickly proving their rugged construction in battle. The glass is good too. NF is personally the company I turn to currently for my scopes
I may try an S&B Short Dot on my new Knight's Armament MK11 Carbine tho just for shits and giggles. As far as weapons platforms, Noveske gets the job done as the heart of an aacurate platform is its barrel. LMT would be first on my list if price and availability were an issue. If not,check out the Knights Armament SR25EM or MK11
VooDoo6Actual
02-24-10, 14:31
Hoplo, that's a rock solid setup right there. NF Scopes are quickly proving their rugged construction in battle. The glass is good too. NF is personally the company I turn to currently for my scopes
I may try an S&B Short Dot on my new Knight's Armament MK11 Carbine tho just for shits and giggles. As far as weapons platforms, Noveske gets the job done as the heart of an aacurate platform is its barrel. LMT would be first on my list if price and availability were an issue. If not,check out the Knights Armament SR25EM or MK11
Copy.
Right on.
I'm in agreement re: Knight's SR 25 EM but, SR 25 EM is not available in People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornication (being such an evil rifle & all.)
I have a LEA working on that solution etc.
Noveske's N6 AR10 (DI) rocks and usually people have not actually owned or shot one but rather embellish/prevaricate what they have heard/experienced from Armalite & GEN 1 mag problems.
It eats up all the 168 & 175 I shove into it.
Checkmate rectified the problem w/ gen 11 mags as has been pointed out several times. Those mags are robust, plentyfull, reasonable priced and dependable.
MY N6 gives me 1 to 1.5 MOA which is superior to my FALs. Sage EBR w/ 18" Krieger built by SEI has the accuracy but a heavy beast & not pragmatic to lug around on PSD type work.
NF has performed well for me as I own several of their optics.
I can only surmise that they will follow suite and produce a 1X6 / 1X8 etc. scope soon. Makes sense and would be the HEAT.
I'm waiting to T&E that Leupy 1 X 8 optic as well looks viable sans the weight issue etc. (But good glass is heavy & that variable range does need more lens elements/glass to function)
I heard via a mutual friend regarding your SR 25 EM.
"Good on Ya" even if it costs' you a Kidney !
GermanSynergy
02-24-10, 17:01
I'm going to purchase a KAC SR 25 Carbine as funds allow. If it's anywhere near as good as my IWS E3, it's sure to be a winner.
Belmont31R
02-24-10, 18:36
I'm going to purchase a KAC SR 25 Carbine as funds allow. If it's anywhere near as good as my IWS E3, it's sure to be a winner.
I cannot justify 6k for a gun that is basically an upsized SR15 which I was very ok with paying 2k for. I dont feel as though Id get 4k worth more of gun...I was strongly hoping it would be in the 3-4k range. 6k, and it doesnt even come with the Super Tap brake?
QuietShootr
02-24-10, 19:10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/CQBSS1sredit.jpg
That IS fucking gorgeous, there is no doubt. I just can't see 5K for it. I'm the LAST thing from cheap, but damn.
ETA: if an employer or gov were paying for it, I'll take two.
ColdDeadHands
02-24-10, 20:09
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/CQBSS1sredit.jpg
When you build several thousand government 7.62mm guns you learn a thing or two...
Yes our guns are expensive, we are trying to lower the price as best as we can, and this years guns are 100x the guns where of old, and cheaper than the last few years.
The SR-25 mag is the 7.62mm standard these day, as its in Military usage.
What makes it better then the Larue OBR?
Our guns are not for everyone. However in a performance based competition, I will guarantee our gun will beat all the other 16" 7.62mm guns on the market.
We sunk a lot of R&D efforts into the SR-25 EM Carbine - we are proud of the gun. However we are not forcing anyone to buy it.
ColdDeadHands
02-25-10, 09:59
We sunk a lot of R&D efforts into the SR-25 EM Carbine - we are proud of the gun.
As you should be. It's a nice Rifle. I just wondered how it is 2 grand better then the Larue OBR....that's all...not trying to ruffle your feathers or anything.
As you should be. It's a nice Rifle. I just wondered how it is 2 grand better then the Larue OBR....that's all...not trying to ruffle your feathers or anything.
Mark makes a nice gun, it will be interesting to see if he can kick out 200+ a month at that cost and keep the same quality.
If your going to bet your life on a gun, $2 grand is nothing.
For a casual shooter that may not need his rifle to be able to fire 1,500 rds suppressed before cleaning and maintain subMOA accuracy. Some guy on a hill top in Afghan may
ColdDeadHands
02-25-10, 10:50
good point.
Belmont31R
02-25-10, 13:28
Mark makes a nice gun, it will be interesting to see if he can kick out 200+ a month at that cost and keep the same quality.
If your going to be your life on a gun, $2 grand is nothing.
For a casual shooter that may not need his rifle to be able to fire 1,500 rds suppressed before cleaning and maintain subMOA accuracy. Some guy on a hill top in Afghan may
NVM........
Interesting trend being observed by LWRCi REPR owners--> Their selling it. Wonder why?
Kevin,
Is the MK11 Carbine available for sale?
Eddiesketti
02-25-10, 14:42
Kevin, I have been taking that same aspect when i look at weapons now. It is easy to justify the price when you consider your life. I for one ordered the LMT, but that is what i want. I can always keep my sights torward KAC if i desire more.
Copy.
Right on.
I'm in agreement re: Knight's SR 25 EM but, SR 25 EM is not available in People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornication (being such an evil rifle & all.)
I have a LEA working on that solution etc.
Noveske's N6 AR10 (DI) rocks and usually people have not actually owned or shot one but rather embellish/prevaricate what they have heard/experienced from Armalite & GEN 1 mag problems.
It eats up all the 168 & 175 I shove into it.
Checkmate rectified the problem w/ gen 11 mags as has been pointed out several times. Those mags are robust, plentyfull, reasonable priced and dependable.
MY N6 gives me 1 to 1.5 MOA which is superior to my FALs. Sage EBR w/ 18" Krieger built by SEI has the accuracy but a heavy beast & not pragmatic to lug around on PSD type work.
NF has performed well for me as I own several of their optics.
I can only surmise that they will follow suite and produce a 1X6 / 1X8 etc. scope soon. Makes sense and would be the HEAT.
I'm waiting to T&E that Leupy 1 X 8 optic as well looks viable sans the weight issue etc. (But good glass is heavy & that variable range does need more lens elements/glass to function)
I heard via a mutual friend regarding your SR 25 EM.
"Good on Ya" even if it costs' you a Kidney !
Hoplo, you only heard about the "one" that I bought...not #2 inbound..lol. I love Noveske but damn, they are hard to get a hold of!!! I'm just a rifle lover and the 3 companies we speak of put out top notch stuff. Accuracy to me (along with battlefield reliability) is paramount to me. I want a tack drivin, knock down weapon that'll just keep on running with as little hassle as possible. Maybe I'm looking for the "Holy Grail" of battle rifles but they can be had with with the companies we've mentioned...or build your own. Oh Hoplo, just thought about it, the KAC MK11 and MK11 Carbine maybe legal in "Commie-fornia" due to the fact that its marked as such and not "SR25". Kevin B would know.
Kevin,
Is the MK11 Carbine available for sale?
Yup, sure is!!! It , to me, represents the pinnacle of 7.62 AR platform technology. KAC has had a serious "product improvement" program ongoing for quite sometime with these platforms. They are tweaking the shit out of them and producing some kick-ass rifles!!
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 15:00
Hoplo, you only heard about the "one" that I bought...not #2 inbound..lol. I love Noveske but damn, they are hard to get a hold of!!! I'm just a rifle lover and the 3 companies we speak of put out top notch stuff. Accuracy to me (along with battlefield reliability) is paramount to me. I want a tack drivin, knock down weapon that'll just keep on running with as little hassle as possible. Maybe I'm looking for the "Holy Grail" of battle rifles but they can be had with with the companies we've mentioned...or build your own. Oh Hoplo, just thought about it, the KAC MK11 and MK11 Carbine maybe legal in "Commie-fornia" due to the fact that its marked as such and not "SR25". Kevin B would know.
IIRC didn't California ban the "RAS" by name in the legislation? Meaning the rail itself?
Yup, sure is!!! It , to me, represents the pinnacle of 7.62 AR platform technology. KAC has had a serious "product improvement" program ongoing for quite sometime with these platforms. They are tweaking the shit out of them and producing some kick-ass rifles!!
Who has it? No KAC dealers have it.
Who has it? No KAC dealers have it.
PM me. I know 2 dealers. I would post it publicly but I dont know what this sites policy is on non-member dealers. The MK11 Carbines are readily available!! :D Get some "Goodness"!!!
Oh Hoplo, just thought about it, the KAC MK11 and MK11 Carbine maybe legal in "Commie-fornia" due to the fact that its marked as such and not "SR25". Kevin B would know.
I'm gonna pull the string on this a little...... If true, my wallet is about to go on a weight loss program.
Interesting trend being observed by LWRCi REPR owners--> Their selling it. Wonder why?
I actually really like my REPR. I use mine for pure enjoyment, no functional use. The fact that P-Mags don't run right in it does bug me, but they are supposed to have a fix for it already. I have a feeling that many of the sales may be due to the fact that people ordered them during the craze of last year thinking they were going to sell them for big profits with no intent of actually keeping it. Everything died down, and now you have a $3K rifle that you can't actually afford. Some people bought multiple rifles planning on selling them. I have a co-worker that ordered 3 REPR's only planning on keeping one. Don't get me wrong, there are people who just don't like it, or it does not meet their needs, or expectations.
Fella's just off the phone with the KAC dealer and the 2 MK11 Carbines he had a week ago are gone!! He said he put a call into KAC and they said that they only mfg.'d 25 of em. Dont quote me on that. Kevin can verify that number. The good news is that the SR25EM is available. I heard they are fantastic rifles. The dealer told me he had an EM in stock that printed quite an impressive group with the included target. If Kevin wishes to disclose the type of performance they are typically getting with the EM, thats fine with me. As for me, I'll just keep my mouth shut and let my MK11 do my talking!!;)
Mk11 Carbine is lasered Mk11 Carbine on the upper - but the lower is engraved SR-25 - and is not kosher in Ca.
I will try to make a longer post tomorrow.
Mark makes a nice gun, it will be interesting to see if he can kick out 200+ a month at that cost and keep the same quality.
If your going to bet your life on a gun, $2 grand is nothing.
For a casual shooter that may not need his rifle to be able to fire 1,500 rds suppressed before cleaning and maintain subMOA accuracy. Some guy on a hill top in Afghan may
From what I've seen from LaRue, I believe the last thing to worry about from Mark is .............quality.
I'm not trying to question Mark, or LT's manufacturing.
I will say that we have been building 7.62mm SR-25's for a while, and our guns are in use with the Military.
We have been able to tweak our designs over time, and can build 250+ of them a month that all shoot sub-moa and are reliable.
We took a lot of growning pains from that, as making a lot of something is tougher than making 10 or so a month.
We pride ourself on the SR-25 EM Carbine, it works suppressed and unsuppressed with no adjustable gas block needed.
It can do 1200-1500rds a day (min) suppressed at a high firing schedule. As well can survive 12k+ rounds and still be fit to fight
I'd be willing to bet no one else can claim that.
The SR-25 Carbine and Mk11 Carbine's where done in limited amounts of older discontinued models we made for government customers.
IIRC 35 Mk11 Carbines and 40 SR-25 Carbines.
I beleive we still have some of both left.
BUT - the SR-25 EM Carbine is cheaper than the other too, more reliable, softer shooting, and just as accurate as the SR-25 Carbine, and perhaps looses a hair to the Mk11 Carbine.
Kevin,
So the MK11 carbines does not have the Mk11 markings on the lower? Just want to confirm before I chase one from my dealer.
Thanks!
I'm not trying to question Mark, or LT's manufacturing.
I will say that we have been building 7.62mm SR-25's for a while, and our guns are in use with the Military.
We have been able to tweak our designs over time, and can build 250+ of them a month that all shoot sub-moa and are reliable.
We took a lot of growning pains from that, as making a lot of something is tougher than making 10 or so a month.
We pride ourself on the SR-25 EM Carbine, it works suppressed and unsuppressed with no adjustable gas block needed.
It can do 1200-1500rds a day (min) suppressed at a high firing schedule. As well can survive 12k+ rounds and still be fit to fight
I'd be willing to bet no one else can claim that.
The SR-25 Carbine and Mk11 Carbine's where done in limited amounts of older discontinued models we made for government customers.
IIRC 35 Mk11 Carbines and 40 SR-25 Carbines.
I beleive we still have some of both left.
BUT - the SR-25 EM Carbine is cheaper than the other too, more reliable, softer shooting, and just as accurate as the SR-25 Carbine, and perhaps looses a hair to the Mk11 Carbine.
Does the collapsible stock affect accuracy?
(i.e ) if everything else is the same, will a non-standard A2 stock be JUST as accurate?
The stock does not affect accuracy in of itself - but stocks can affect you cheekweld and eye relief and comfort etc.
I shot a sub 1/3rd MOA group with a 2.5-10x NightForce on a SR-25EM Carbine several weeks ago -- it had a collapsible stock.
No Bananas
02-27-10, 10:53
the POFs and DPMSs are junk
Why are the POF's junk?
gunnyscouts2
08-19-10, 13:30
I bought a RRA 16 inch model for fun. Thats what it does for me. Dont think it is a serious battle rifle, but I did not buy it for that. It is plenty accurate but it does have its weak points and the talk about the use of the FAL magazines does create a problem. It is a good plinker, accurate but not hard core. If I was going to look at an AR platform for a battle rifle, I would save my money and buy one of the higher end rifles, if it is to be used as a plinker, this is a good rifle.
edgecrusher
11-29-12, 08:10
I own a LaRue OBR 20" rifle, topped with a Leupold mk4 4.5-14 optic. It regularly groups .75" at 200yds in 5 shot groups, sometimes better, if I have a real good day. I also own a PWS mk214, with a t1 with the 4moa dot, and at 100 yds I get 2" groups average. Both rifles do exactly what I want them to do, with the LaRue really being exceptional.
Kevin, the KAC rifles are beautiful, and lust worthy in every aspect. I wish for an m110 daily ;)
Not all of these rifles ( 308 ar's) would perform in a battle situation, many need tweeking to run well. Both of mine worked great from go, but if your life counts on it, I would take the SR-25, battle proven!
mrwickwire
11-29-12, 08:20
I think the best all around is the LMT. The price is not too much, and not too little.
That being said, KAC and Armalite make really great rifles too. I like the fact that there is now an Armalite that will accept the SR-25 patterned magazines.
I like the fact that there is now an Armalite that will accept the SR-25 patterned magazines.
I did not know that. Awesome
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