View Full Version : I think I'm wanting a Saiga!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te91g9Yr5g8
But I'm wondering, do these AA drums really hold up that well?
jahwarrior1423
04-02-10, 21:39
I would get a MD drum instead.
I have been running a saiga for a little over a year now. I had some problems with the gun short stroking with 2 3/4 birdshot #7 and #8. Now after thousands of rounds it runs like a sewing machine.
I'm seriously considering a Saiga too. Would you guys trust one as a primary home defense shotgun (shooting 00 buck) or would you stick with a pump? I have shot a friend's Saiga a few times, and appreciate the benefits of the speed and capacity.
I talked tp an FFL who said he'll swap me evenup NIB Glock 19 for asaiga 12 ga.I'm mighty tempted. What do people think?
I've had a Saiga for a year and a half now. Just sent it off to Tromix to get work done to it. The MD Drums are really nice and right now they are offering them at $100 for pre order (I bought mine last year for $250 a piece). It's a great shotgun and fun as hell. With that said, I personally wouldn't use it to defend my life. I've had several failure to feed issues with my gun at the range and I wouldn't like imagining that happening at 0 Dark 30 with an armed intruder in my home. I'd stick to a pump gun or a reliable autoloader.
Agreed. Its not my go to gun either but very fun to shoot. My 1911 gets the honor for home defence.
AlohaChris
04-05-10, 21:35
Saiga 12's suck, you don't want one :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFR8t056nY&feature=related
Is that you running and gunning?
AlohaChris
04-05-10, 22:46
Yup, that's me with my Tromix S-17 with an 8" barrel and 20 round MD arms drum.
kingkroupa
04-06-10, 21:41
I love mine and trust it completely for home defense. Seems like most people only have FTF and FTE with cheap bird shot. Most people seem to have no problems when running good high brass buckshot.
Mine runs like a sewing machine with good loads, it loves buckshot and slugs. It hiccups every now and then when running cheap bulk packs from Walmart.
Also the magazines can be tricky. My factory mag runs great but half of the promags I have bought required some sanding to feed reliably.
FMJs-of-Freedom
04-08-10, 11:11
Saiga are a big project to get working for MOST people. FMJs-of-Freedom
the Bamster
04-08-10, 12:16
Saiga are great if you buy one with the understanding that you are buying a project. For some this is a problem, but for most that get into saigas its an opportunity to build a truly great gun. One of the biggest problems is the gas system. Early saigas had four gas ports cut in a diamond pattern later models have three or even two whitch can cause them to be undergassed with light loads. Saigas also have a problem with there gas block not being machined and or assembled properly which can also cause undergassing. If you remove the gas plug it is easy to see the gas ports to count them and see how many your gun has and If some are blocked buy the gas block. This problem is an easy fix is covered buy the warranty. All the warranty work is done in the USA by a very good shop. I here they have quick turnaround and good service.
I like to polish the bolt and apply valve grinding compound and cycle the bolt by hand a few hundred times. Many people complain its hard to insert magazines in the saiga when the mags are full. I put some paint on a shell and insert the mag, I then remove some metal and shape the bottom of the bolt to help this.
If you are considering moving the trigger group forward some modifications need to be done to it, but you can get them already modified by Tromix. I use triggers from http://www.texasaktriggers.com/ and modify them myself. Modification is pretty simple.
Saigas dont have a great finish. Many choose to duracoat them and they look great. A big problem many run into is oil seeping from the mated parts and ruining the duracoat, this sucks because the only fix is to strip and redo. I hate doing things twice. You could scub and degrease for hours only to have oil seep from under the scope mount and ruin your finish. So heres what I do, I go to my friends house and borrow his turky frier. Its ok hes still got my weedeater. I then mix 50/50 simplegreen and water. Get it good and hot, then stick the reciever in for a while, problem solved.
I believe you will find the saiga is a realy great gun if you understand your buying an unpolished diamond. Saigas simple to customize, custom parts are cheap, and can run like stink. I hope this info helps, but be careful saigas are a highly addictive substance and should be used with care.
I ordered a shorty from RedStick, then bought a stock one to use 'till the RedStick was delivered. The only issues I had were related to Silver Bear ammo. Now I have the shorty back, and the stock gun has also been to RedStick and back. I stick to the recommended ammo, zero malfunctions. I can't speak for all Saiga shotguns, but I trust my two completely.
I'm getting one:D got it on layaway.
I am NOT going to be using it for HD. My AR is for that. It's going to be a range gun. I do hope to be able to make it reliable enough to suit me for HD, though
Alaskapopo
05-22-10, 21:15
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/shotguns/Saigadesc.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/shotguns/20roundsaiga.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/shotguns/12roundsaiga.jpg
I love mine. No problems. Also the R&R mag well and mags are a must for me. The toggle up standard system with the lock the bolt back manually then togle the mag in then release the bolt was way way too slow for me.
Check out http://www.randrtargets.com/
I am a huge rifle fan but this gun has me rethinking my go to gun for home defense. Its hard to argue with 12 rounds of 00 buck being launched as fast as I can pull the trigger with very minimal recoil.
My gun so far has ran on every thing from reduced recoil Remington 00 buck and light 3 dram target loads to 2 3/4 full power Breneke mag loads. All on the slug gas setting. I hated the gun in its stock form. But once worked over by R&R its awsome.
Pat
Wow Alaska! I've never seen that configuration!
There is a special gun shop I know in downtown Kabul that sells nothing but 12 ga. Krinkovs.
Need to get me one of those.
Arctic Sloth
05-23-10, 10:53
I have owned several. Fit and finish is very hit or miss. Overall quality is very hit or miss. I agree that if you go into it knowing it will be a project, or that you likely need to put hundreds of dollars into it to get it to run properly, than have at it and enjoy.
I have to second guess myself on Saiga purchases. I have gotten to the point where paying or putting in >$1,500.00 for a <$500.00 shotgun, when I can buy a Benelli M4, or FN SLP, or a "whatever" for that much money may be a wiser (not necessarily more fun) decsion.
FWIW there are only two guys I trust to work on my Saigas ---- Keith at Tac 47 or Mike at Lone Star Arms.
I have a Berreta 1201 FP that gets the job done. But those 20 round mags and drums do something for me. Like a modern day street sweeper. But I don't want to get into something that might break or fail when (hopefully "IF") the time ever comes.
R&R wants big money! Enough for 2 of the benelli M4's! I looked up the one Alaska posted
I have owned several. Fit and finish is very hit or miss. Overall quality is very hit or miss. I agree that if you go into it knowing it will be a project, or that you likely need to put hundreds of dollars into it to get it to run properly, than have at it and enjoy.
I have to second guess myself on Saiga purchases. I have gotten to the point where paying or putting in >$1,500.00 for a <$500.00 shotgun, when I can buy a Benelli M4, or FN SLP, or a "whatever" for that much money may be a wiser (not necessarily more fun) option.
Alaskapopo
05-23-10, 11:17
I have owned several. Fit and finish is very hit or miss. Overall quality is very hit or miss. I agree that if you go into it knowing it will be a project, or that you likely need to put hundreds of dollars into it to get it to run properly, than have at it and enjoy.
I have to second guess myself on Saiga purchases. I have gotten to the point where paying or putting in >$1,500.00 for a <$500.00 shotgun, when I can buy a Benelli M4, or FN SLP, or a "whatever" for that much money may be a wiser (not necessarily more fun) decsion.
FWIW there are only two guys I trust to work on my Saigas ---- Keith at Tac 47 or Mike at Lone Star Arms.
Robert at R&R is the best Saiga smith going. I own a M4 and the Saiga has more to offer. The removable magazine is a huge huge bonus.
Pat
Arctic Sloth
05-23-10, 11:35
Got to disagree with you. Keith and Cliff at Tac 47 are the best! Mike at Lone Star Arms rocks, too.
R&R is way too expensive for what they provide. And, have you researched the opinions experts in the field have of R & R? There are a lot of guys in the business who have clashed with R & R. I take no position, good or bad, on that dispute, but it is there.
Your Saiga is awesome and looks great. I just happen to be a huge fan of "my" Saiga guys and you obviously like "your" Saiga guy. To each their own.
I have owned Saigas worked on by all, not some, but all of the big name conversion companies except for R & R. So, I am not qualified to dispute your opinion as to R & R and will take your word that they produce a high quality product. Regarding virtually everyone else who has a "name" in the business, I've owned their products and I now have two favorites, as noted above.
Oh, I currently own two high end Saiga S-12s, and a heavily modified Benelli M4, so I do have some experience to back up my opinions. I sold all the other Saigas, as I have found the two I like the best.
Alaskapopo
05-23-10, 11:47
Got to disagree with you. Keith and Cliff at Tac 47 are the best! Mike at Lone Star Arms rocks, too.
R&R is way too expensive for what they provide. And, have you researched the opinions experts in the field have of R & R? There are a lot of guys in the business who have clashed with R & R. I take no position, good or bad, on that dispute, but it is there.
Your Saiga is awesome and looks great. I just happen to be a huge fan of "my" Siaga guys and you obviously like "your" Saiga guy. To each their own.
I have owned Saigas worked on by all, not some, but all of the big name conversion companies except for R & R. So, I am not qualified to dispute your opinion as to R & R and will take your word that they produce a high quality product. Regarding virtually everyone else who has a "name" in the business, I've owned their products and I now have two favorites, as noted above.
Oh, I currently own two high end Saiga S-12s, and a heavily modified Benelli M4, so I do have some experience to back up my opinions. I sold all the other Saigas, as I have found the two I like the best.
R&R has the best mag well and their guns receiver the most praise from the top shooters. In fact in last years USPSA multigun nationals the top open shooters were all using R&R guns. Rob does charge a lot but he provides something none of the other guys do. A AR15 style magazine system that actually works. All the other mag systems out there have issues. I am not dissing your gun. I am just saying I did a lot of research and asking around the net and I ended up with R&R. Pretty much everyone said the same thing. He is the most expensive but makes the best product. I am very happy with the purchase. Also since you admit you have no experience with R&R you can not say they charge to much for what they provide. When I was at the Larue Match I saw other saigas that were modified and not one of them had as good of a magazine system. The R&R magwell is really what sets his gun apart. Watch the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmkq2BgYsUs
Also based on what you said earlier you sound disappointed with your Saiga experience. I feel just the opposite. The R&R gun may cost a lot but like anything good you get what you pay for. Kind of like DPMS vs Colt.
I also have a modified Benelli M4 that is not going to get much use from now on. It will only get used in matches like Larue where my open Saiga is not legal.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/shotguns/BenelliM4.jpg
Pat
I have to second guess myself on Saiga purchases. I have gotten to the point where paying or putting in >$1,500.00 for a <$500.00 shotgun, when I can buy a Benelli M4, or FN SLP, or a "whatever" for that much money may be a wiser (not necessarily more fun) decsion.
Interesting point. Glad to have read some of ya'lls opinions before I pay the balance on this gun...I think I am reconsidering my potential purchase, now.
I'm trying to get the several years of being on a non-objective gun forum (as in it's one big online circle jerk) out of my head...I was an idiot for not realizing it before I found M4C and lightfighter.
Scattergun
05-23-10, 18:15
I have a Tromix Saiga. It runs like a top, no problems. I shoot it more than any shotgun I have.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/guns/SBS/SaigaSBS-1.jpg
Alaskapopo
05-23-10, 20:27
I have a Tromix Saiga. It runs like a top, no problems. I shoot it more than any shotgun I have.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/guns/SBS/SaigaSBS-1.jpg
Sweet looking SBS you have there.
Pat
Arctic Sloth
05-30-10, 08:46
Sweet looking SBS you have there.
Pat
Now that is something Pat and I clearly agree on! I like that wood furniture.
Scattergun
05-30-10, 09:04
Now that is something Pat and I clearly agree on! I like that wood furniture.
thanks,
dancinzen@hotmail.com
06-08-10, 20:25
i really wanted a saiga 12 until i picked one up and felt how front heavy and unbalanced they are! now i think i am going with the mossberg 930 spx, way nicer!
Alaskapopo
06-08-10, 20:34
i really wanted a saiga 12 until i picked one up and felt how front heavy and unbalanced they are! now i think i am going with the mossberg 930 spx, way nicer!
The balance on my Saiga seems fine to me. The weight is in the middle with the magazine. Its not front heavy. It balances just like my rifles. Also consider this is not a skeet gun. No matter how good you feel the Mossberg balances once its 8 or 9 shots are done your single loading the mag. I can just put in a fresh 5, 12 or 20 round mag and keep going.
Pat
BLACK LION
06-15-10, 17:52
Who can argue with a 12 guage AK.
I own 2 Saigas and albeit I am in line for the 12 I dont see the problem in a 400.00 semi auto 12 guage that with a little patience and elbow grease can run as good if not better than some of the more expensive semi autos.
Short stroking can happed even on a pump as I experience it with my benelli supernova tactical...especially on underpowered sub 3" shot low powered slugs(mini shells) and low powered buck.
I would be running full powered loads in my Siaga 12 and wouldnt accept any substitutes.
So many things can be done to those rifles its rediculous...one could have a serious shooting semi auto 12 ga for less than half of what Semi Benelli would cost.
I've been wanting to put one of these together for years but I'm still deciding on exactly how I want to configure it. Eventually.
I have a Berreta 1201 FP that gets the job done. But those 20 round mags and drums do something for me. Like a modern day street sweeper. But I don't want to get into something that might break or fail when (hopefully "IF") the time ever comes.
R&R wants big money! Enough for 2 of the benelli M4's! I looked up the one Alaska posted
I carried/ shot a 1201FP for many years. It has not been out of the safe since I got my first Saiga. Mine are RedSticks, I've got about $1100 and $1500 in them before optics and NFA tax.
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