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View Full Version : AR-10 vs. G3 Magazine System in AR Platform



ca_fireman19
06-15-10, 02:16
I have the opportunity to build a 7.62/.308 AR platform. I have discovered there are 3 different style lowers: Armalite AR-10, DPMS and DPMS G3. I have pretty much ruled out the Armalite since they are outlawed in CA and the matching uppers are more difficult to procure and more expensive, not to mention the lower parts kits are as well, whereas the DPMS's both use AR15 lower kits and the uppers are more readily available and cheaper...

Phase 1 complete...DPMS is a go. Now for phase 2...within the DPMS lowers there is the standard AR10 mag version and then there is the version that takes the old HK G3 magazines. I have found G3 mags for as low as $2 a piece which is very appealing to me. But for some reason, this seems too good to be true. Any thoughts on this? I'm sure if I get the G3 version, I won't be able to use the Magpul P-mags which I love in my AR15...

let's get some feedback on this. Thanks.

TOrrock
06-15-10, 07:54
I've moved and cleaned up the title a little.

Your gut instinct about too good to be true is correct.

You're going to have to butcher this thing anyway to be CA compliant aren't you?

6.8 Shooter
06-15-10, 10:14
I have one of the CMMG G3 lowers and it is very nice. The function have been flawless with all of the surplus mags I have found.

I have often had issues with the Stoner/DPMS style mags and the price is too high for them.

Have not had one failure using the G3 mags.

99HMC4
06-15-10, 10:24
Your gut instinct about too good to be true is correct.


Why is this?

Todd.K
06-15-10, 11:36
There are more than three different types of .308 AR systems.

There are Armalite pattern lowers that are off the list.

Both the Armalite and DPMS use some special lower parts but a majority of standard AR-15 parts.

The DPMS LR308 uses the KAC pattern mag while the Armalite AR-10 uses a magazine based off the M14, there is no DPMS that takes AR-10 mags.

You should check for availability of 10 round mags. All the cheap 20 round mags in the world are not going to do you any good in CA.

ca_fireman19
06-15-10, 13:32
To make this CA compliant, it is my understanding that all I have to do is 1) not use a "black listed" receiver (which I believe disqualifies ALL armalites) and 2) install a "bullet button" which shouldn't take any modification if using the DPMS style.

I was mistaken about DPMS using AR10 mags. As for getting my hands on reliable 10 rounders, I figured if push comes to shove I would just get a case of 20's and legally and perminantly alter them with either my MIG, solder or epoxy...not the ideal situation, however, legal and effective.

fdxpilot
06-15-10, 14:22
To make this CA compliant, it is my understanding that all I have to do is 1) not use a "black listed" receiver (which I believe disqualifies ALL armalites) and 2) install a "bullet button" which shouldn't take any modification if using the DPMS style.

I was mistaken about DPMS using AR10 mags. As for getting my hands on reliable 10 rounders, I figured if push comes to shove I would just get a case of 20's and legally and perminantly alter them with either my MIG, solder or epoxy...not the ideal situation, however, legal and effective.

You can try these. Made with "Gun stupid" states in mind.

http://midwestpx.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_84&products_id=382

sinister
06-15-10, 14:47
Aero Precision makes an Armalite (licensed?) clone of the AR-10T frame not on the California list.

http://www.coldwarshooters.net/images/aero.jpg

ca_fireman19
06-16-10, 03:26
Is the AR-10 design better than the DPMS? Advantages/disadvantages?

pezboy
06-16-10, 11:23
Is the AR-10 design better than the DPMS? Advantages/disadvantages?

I would say that the KAC/DPMS/LMT/etc. pattern mags and rifles are more "standard" than Armalite or any others. PMags are available in the KAC pattern and are way cheaper than any other mags and probably way more reliable. Only some uppers and lowers are compatible and there are a lot of different receiver/barrel nut threads and barrel/flash suppressor threads. Make sure you get a rifle that is compatible with what handguard and muzzle attachment you are getting or will want later.
Dustin

99HMC4
06-16-10, 11:34
Your gut instinct about too good to be true is correct.



Why is this?

bump with this question again....

99HMC4
06-16-10, 11:40
I was looking at this maybe for one of my personal buids...
http://shop.si-defense.com/SI_Defense_Billet_308_7_62_HK_G3_Matched_Set_p/si%20308%20ms-g3.htm

Thomas M-4
06-16-10, 12:21
bump with this question again....

Not Templar but I do remember reading that magazines adapted from none rotating bolts rifles fal,and G-3 are not easily adaptable to operate from rotating bolt rifles AR-10.

Cold
06-16-10, 12:41
With regards to magazines, my experience with the Armalite magazines has been great. The 20 and 25 round AR-10 mags I own all run and have yet to show any issues.

As for the CA issues, I'm not familiar with how CA state law reads but I do know there are guys in CA using AR-10 systems legally.

99HMC4
06-16-10, 12:50
Not Templar but I do remember reading that magazines adapted from none rotating bolts rifles fal,and G-3 are not easily adaptable to operate from rotating bolt rifles AR-10.

I would really like to know more about any issues people have had when using this set up.....

ca_fireman19
06-17-10, 23:59
What is the difference between the KAC and AR-10 magazine system? What do KAC mags run and likewise AR-10's? Which is more reliable? As it stands now, I am starting to lean very far away from the G3 system...

Thomas M-4
06-18-10, 00:09
What is the difference between the KAC and AR-10 magazine system? What do KAC mags run and likewise AR-10's? Which is more reliable? As it stands now, I am starting to lean very far away from the G3 system...

Ar-10 magazines are modified M-14 magazines. The Brits just adopted the LMT .308 which uses the KAC pattern magazines as well as the US Army's M110 also uses the KAC pattern magazines. Magpul also makes a .308 P-mag in the KAC /DPMS pattern.

ca_fireman19
06-18-10, 00:11
Ar-10 magazines are modified M-14 magazines. The Brits just adopted the LMT .308 which uses the KAC pattern magazines as well as the US Army's M110 also uses the KAC pattern magazines. Magpul also makes a .308 P-mag in the KAC /DPMS pattern.

Modified? How modified? Would I not be able to switch the same mags between the AR-10 and an M1A?

TOrrock
06-18-10, 08:29
Modified? How modified? Would I not be able to switch the same mags between the AR-10 and an M1A?


No, you would not. Armalite used to use modified M14 magazines during the AWB. They knocked the front locking lug off, and made a separate cut for the new lock up.

When the AWB went away, they came out with their own proprietary magazine system.

As far as the G3 mag lowers, I may have been a little too negative, however I had heard through the grape vine that they were problematic, especially the CMMG lowers that were being brought out last year.

The Finns used G3 magazines that they modified for use in some of their commercial Valmet M78's in 7.62 NATO, so it's possible, but I honestly don't trust an AR lower designed for them.

Which is a damn shame, since the mags are so damn inexpensive.

6.8 Shooter
06-18-10, 08:51
I have not had any problems with the G3 mag lowers. I was in on the testing on the first ones out there and we worked all of the bugs out.

I have a rifle on this platform that has run 100% with 3000 rounds so far. Never had a DPMS or KAC rifle do that. If you do not have a G3 upper you can modify the DPMS upper to work with the G3 mags.

This is the modification: http://www.cmmginc.com/Downloadable_PDF/DPMS-MK-8_Upper_Modification/DPMS-MK-8_Mod.pdf

G3 Mags are the cheapest out there, we bought 500 of them for .97 cents ea. shipped last year and 95% of them were brand new never used in the HK factory wrapper.

MistWolf
06-19-10, 01:00
The biggest problem with using G3 mags is they do not lock the bolt open on the last shot. They have a reputation for being rugged & reliable in the G3/HK91.

There is also the Rock River Arms LAR8 which uses Fal magazines which can be found for about $15 - $25 for the metric pattern. Inch pattern Fal mags are more. Fal metric magazines work good in the Fal. I have no experience with the inch mags.

The DPMS/KAC/Remington magazines I think are their own design. For awhile, they were very expensive, running over $100. Prices are coming down as they gain in popularity and the MagPul mags even cheaper.

Armalite also makes the Eagle lowers and are legal in Cali. Armalite originally modified exisiting M14 magazines to get around the ban. They make their own which are still based on M14 magazines but with improvements. These are Gen II magazines.

DPMS/KAC pattern magazines and Armalite magazines are being manufactured new. I don't know of anyone making quality new Fal or G3 mags