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JDW67
10-21-10, 13:11
I was offered a Sig that I've always wanted, but I heard Sig has had severe QC problems over the last few years. What do I look for if I was to purchase this gun?

TIA

gtmtnbiker98
10-21-10, 13:17
Check the rails!!! Since it is a P220, check to see if it has an internal or external extractor. If it's an older folded slide, it will have an internal extractor. In this case it "should" be good-to-go.

If it is a newer stainless slide and has an internal extractor, it "may" have feeding issues due to Sig not being able to perfect the internal extractor with the stainless slide. If it has a stainless slide and external extractor, then I would focus my attention to the rails and make sure that the rails aren't too worn.

There were also reported issues with some of the 7/8 round magazines.

JDW67
10-21-10, 13:44
Check the rails!!! Since it is a P220, check to see if it has an internal or external extractor. If it's an older folded slide, it will have an internal extractor. In this case it "should" be good-to-go.

If it is a newer stainless slide and has an internal extractor, it "may" have feeding issues due to Sig not being able to perfect the internal extractor with the stainless slide. If it has a stainless slide and external extractor, then I would focus my attention to the rails and make sure that the rails aren't too worn.

There were also reported issues with some of the 7/8 round magazines.

Thanks. It turns out that this is an older West German P220 from the mid 90's. My friend's grandfather passed away and they are trying to get rid of his weapon collection.

rathos
10-21-10, 13:44
This should be all you need:

http://grayguns.com/guide-to-sig-sauer-pistol-inspection/

gtmtnbiker98
10-21-10, 13:56
Thanks. It turns out that this is an older West German P220 from the mid 90's. My friend's grandfather passed away and they are trying to get rid of his weapon collection.In that case, it will be good to go.

JDW67
10-21-10, 15:07
In that case, it will be good to go.

Thanks...

Getting it for $100 plus DOJ fees. They just want to get rid of it. :cool:

Metallicus
10-21-10, 18:42
:blink:

I need friends like this.

davebee456
10-21-10, 20:49
just found a 579.00 used German Made Sig P220 from 1996
box and manual but no original grips, just old houge rubbers...
no rail wear
bought it,
Your deal was better than mine,,,

El Gato
10-21-10, 21:09
got mine from my dad...tried for 10 yrs or so to get it from him...
he finally traded it to me for my p6...

got it... fired about 150 rounds and it started failing to extract...

sent it to sig..they have a 75.00 fee to go through the gun...had them also add the srt and night sights...

now I love the gun...really ... flawless....wonderful...enjoy...

randolph
10-22-10, 06:51
Thanks. It turns out that this is an older West German P220 from the mid 90's. My friend's grandfather passed away and they are trying to get rid of his weapon collection.

I had one of those. Ive always regretted selling that one. One of the better large caliber CCW.

Whtwolf14
10-22-10, 06:54
I had one of those. Ive always regretted selling that one. One of the better large caliber CCW.


I don't know anyone who "doesn't" regret selling a mid 90's classic......dang I miss mine too.

Rinspeed
10-22-10, 09:42
just found a 579.00 used German Made Sig P220 from 1996
box and manual but no original grips, just old houge rubbers...





By 1996 the 220 was made in the states with a mix of parts from Germany and here. The way you can tell is if it has proof marks and a date code, if it does then it was made in Germany.

rubberneck
10-22-10, 09:54
IMHO the Sig quality "control issues" have been over blown. That's not to say that they haven't slipped a bit but if you listen to some people on the interweb you should avoid current Sig's at all costs. That doesn't mirror my own personal experience.

Entropy
10-22-10, 10:30
IMHO the Sig quality "control issues" have been over blown. That's not to say that they haven't slipped a bit but if you listen to some people on the interweb you should avoid current Sig's at all costs. That doesn't mirror my own personal experience.

There have been legit problems since Ron Cohen took over in 2005. Sig has changed small parts vendors several times since 2005 to find a cheaper sourse, as well as changing alloys in the larger parts. Sig changed the slide and frame materials to softer and cheaper alloys which also were less hard on their tools allowing production to continue with less interuptions. If you look at pre 2005 Sigarms P229 slides, they had a lot more tool marks on them because the stainless that they used was a much harder cutlery grade stainless steel. Some of our post 2005 P220s actually dented the breech faces using 200gr+P ammo because of the softer alloy. I'm not even going to go into the problems associated with the newer internal extractor design. I had one officer drop his P220(newer) slide on the hard wood floor during cleaning and it bent the rail enough to make the action too stiff for safe use.

As for the frames, I've taken older P229s and newer P229s in service and compared them. Our older P229(Sigarms) had significantly less wear on the frame rails than our newer models, and the older ones had at least 3x as many rounds through them. We've also had a lot more grip screw threads getting stripped out with the newer, softer frame alloy. Then of course, the US made barrels are softer than the old German hammer forged barrels. The mating portion of the locking lug and frame insert shows significantly more wear than the older guns.

Is that to say that the newer guns are junk?......no. I like the older guns better as very few compromises were made in the design, materials, and quality controls. The newer guns are still good guns, and Sig Sauer has been innovating the classic line to improve it. The E2 modification is one of the best, since it addresses a weak point in the Sig design which is the stripping out of the grip screw threads on the frame. Other improvements are the use of the new snail pins for the firing pin position pin, and the H&K extractor design on the P229 E2.

Sig Sauer is definately improving the classic line design, and they are correcting their mistakes in materials and quality controls. So if you want a newer gun I would get the newest one possible with snail pins in the slide. If you want an older gun, look for either a carbon stamped slide variant made in "W. Germany", or a model that has "Sigarms" on the frame/slide with "stainless" on the slide. Another good indicator is if the serial number is not only on the frame, but on the barrel too. German hammer forged barrels have the serial number on them.

davebee456
10-22-10, 11:29
Well I did speak to Bruce at GreyGuns who said that the best P220 45autos were the later 90's stamped steel slide versions...mine is not made in germany I guess because it does not have a Date Code however It does say MADE IN GERMANY on the slide,
I hope it is a great example of the P220 Classic..I have not fired it yet.

Entropy
10-22-10, 11:57
Well I did speak to Bruce at GreyGuns who said that the best P220 45autos were the later 90's stamped steel slide versions...mine is not made in germany I guess because it does not have a Date Code however It does say MADE IN GERMANY on the slide,
I hope it is a great example of the P220 Classic..I have not fired it yet.

Got a picture? Is it a stainless slide or carbon stamped slide? Stamped slide is only made in Germany, while I don't think any stainless slides were imported in the USA. Stamping machines were never on US soil. Does in the importer say "Sigarms" or "Sig Sauer" on it?

rubberneck
10-22-10, 12:10
I never discounted the issues they had I just said that they were overblown. At their worst point they were still turning out really good guns even if there was a higher chance of getting a lemon then there had been in years past. The two (the dreaded 250 and a 229 Elite) that I have bought the last two years have had the snot shot out of them without a single issue.

loupav
10-22-10, 12:22
My dad gave me a P220 alloy frame with no rail about 10 years ago. It's been a great pistol. Every time I pick it up I think of Robert Deniro in Heat. :D

Later on I bought myself a P220ST. All my Sigs are pre '05. And the only problem I had with them was when I used Pro-mags in them. But they've been perfect.

Enjoy.

davebee456
10-22-10, 12:28
It is in layaway jail until I sell one of my Hk45c (which is in the WTS Area).
The Sig P220 I got is a stamped slide , no date code , no german markings, on the slide it says MADE IN GERMANY.
It is a 1996 made Pistol Imported from germany according to SIG.
No Rails...

Entropy
10-22-10, 13:06
It is in layaway jail until I sell one of my Hk45c (which is in the WTS Area).
The Sig P220 I got is a stamped slide , no date code , no german markings, on the slide it says MADE IN GERMANY.
It is a 1996 made Pistol Imported from germany according to SIG.
No Rails...

If it was made in 1996 then it will be of excellent quality.

davebee456
10-22-10, 13:29
i am scared to have it sent to sig to have it serviced and then it comes back with MIM Everything!!!!

davebee456
10-22-10, 13:34
i would like the pistol detail stripped springs replaced and etc.

JDW67
10-22-10, 13:54
Thanks for the replies, guys.

The gun is with my FFL pending a background check right now and I'll get pics up when I get the weapon.

Entropy
10-22-10, 17:15
i am scared to have it sent to sig to have it serviced and then it comes back with MIM Everything!!!!

All that is replaced for the standard armorer's service is the recoil spring, trigger bar spring, decocker spring, slide release lever spring, firing pin position pin, and grip screws. If you don't want anything else replaced, tell your armorer.

John Hearne
10-24-10, 15:08
I don't think that the problems with Sig's QC are overblown as I've experienced more than my fair share of failures. If I wanted a new P220, I'd get a gun with an external extractor and replace the takedown lever with the "enhanced" model for the Combat model.

This should take care of all the potential problems that you as a user can affect.

ucrt
10-24-10, 17:43
The made so many stampings with the stamped slide.
I just went and checked mine and here's what I got:

P245; Sig Sauer; Sig Sauer (lg print); w/ SigArms Inc (small print): Made in Germany stamped on the frame w/ the "3 S's making a triangle"

P245; Sig Sauer; Sig Sauer (lg print); w/ SigArms Inc (small print): Made in Germany stamped on the slide and again on the frame w/ the "3 S's making a triangle"

P226; Sig Sauer; Sig Sauer (lg print); w/ SigArms Inc (small print); Made in W Germany on the slide

P220; Sig Sauer (lg print); w/ SigArms Inc (small print); Made in Germany on the slide

The P245's are my favorites.