View Full Version : Accuracy of BCM SS410 16" Mid Length
Canonshooter
11-07-10, 08:28
The more I shoot this new BCM upper, the more I like it.
I've only had this upper for a month, but so far, so good. On a previous range outing, I tested some Hornady 75 grain BTHP match ammo. Results were pretty good, averaging under 1 MOA. Here is a target from that outing;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-2.jpg
I went to the range again yesterday to shoot these three loads;
1. Hornady 75 grain BTHP match
2. SAA 77 grain SMK
3. XM193
My goal was to (1) see how well the SAA load shoots and (2) determine how much scope adjustment would be needed to compensate for the Hornady and Federal rounds using the SAA round as the starting point.
The following groups were shot in succession at 100 yards, front of rifle on a sandbag using my less-than-perfect "benchrest" technique. After fouling the barrel with 5 rounds of 75 grain BTHP hand loads, I shot the following groups;
5 rounds of the Hornady load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-3.jpg
I then immediately shot 5 rounds of the SAA load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-4.jpg
I was pleased to see that the POI was not significantly different between these two loads.
I then made some elevation adjustment to the scope and fired 5 more rounds of the SAA load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-5.jpg
I then immediately fired 5 rounds of the 55 grain XM193 load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-6.jpg
I then made a made a final adjustment to the scope and fired 5 more rounds of the hand load. Though I do not have the target, these 5 rounds were perfectly centered on the target and grouped like the other rounds - just over 1 MOA.
I certainly don't have many rounds through this upper yet, but my goal was to achieve 1 MOA accuracy with at least one load. It would appear that (1) this upper is capable of far better than 1 MOA accuracy with the right load and (2) best of all, this upper shoots a variety of loads very well to nearly identical POI. The fact that it shoots XM193 very well to almost the same POI as the 75/77 grain loads is IMO a huge plus.
Full rifle specs;
- BCM SS410 16-inch mid-length upper complete with BCM bolt assembly, LaRue 12-inch rail, Gunfighter charging handle and ACC Blackout flash suppressor
- Bushnell Elite 4200 1.25-4X scope in LaRue mount
- Troy BUIS
- BM lower with Gissele SSA trigger
- BCM Ambidextrous Safety Selector
- Magpul MAID, CTR mil-spec and trigger guard
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/ar-8.jpg
The more I shoot this new BCM upper, the more I like it.
I've only had this upper for a month, but so far, so good. On a previous range outing, I tested some Hornady 75 grain BTHP match ammo. Results were pretty good, averaging under 1 MOA. Here is a target from that outing;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-2.jpg
I went to the range again yesterday to shoot these three loads;
1. Hornady 75 grain BTHP match
2. SAA 77 grain SMK
3. XM193
My goal was to (1) see how well the SAA load shoots and (2) determine how much scope adjustment would be needed to compensate for the Hornady and Federal rounds using the SAA round as the starting point.
The following groups were shot in succession at 100 yards, front of rifle on a sandbag using my less-than-perfect "benchrest" technique. After fouling the barrel with 5 rounds of 75 grain BTHP hand loads, I shot the following groups;
5 rounds of the Hornady load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-3.jpg
I then immediately shot 5 rounds of the SAA load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-4.jpg
I was pleased to see that the POI was not significantly different between these two loads.
I then made some elevation adjustment to the scope and fired 5 more rounds of the SAA load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-5.jpg
I then immediately fired 5 rounds of the 55 grain XM193 load;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-6.jpg
I then made a made a final adjustment to the scope and fired 5 more rounds of the hand load. Though I do not have the target, these 5 rounds were perfectly centered on the target and grouped like the other rounds - just over 1 MOA.
I certainly don't have many rounds through this upper yet, but my goal was to achieve 1 MOA accuracy with at least one load. It would appear that (1) this upper is capable of far better than 1 MOA accuracy with the right load and (2) best of all, this upper shoots a variety of loads very well to nearly identical POI. The fact that it shoots XM193 very well to almost the same POI as the 75/77 grain loads is IMO a huge plus.
Full rifle specs;
- BCM SS410 16-inch mid-length upper complete with BCM bolt assembly, LaRue 12-inch rail, Gunfighter charging handle and ACC Blackout flash suppressor
- Bushnell Elite 4200 1.25-4X scope in LaRue mount
- Troy BUIS
- BM lower with Gissele SSA trigger
- BCM Ambidextrous Safety Selector
- Magpul MAID, CTR mil-spec and trigger guard
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/ar-8.jpg
Sub MOA with M193 is great! Nice shooter there. Usually when I see vertical or horizontal stringing I KNOW it's me not the gun or ammo as well. It always comforting to know that a rifle will shoot well with a variety of ammo. Do a dope card for all of them and carry on!
Until that day,
Darkop
CharlieMike
11-07-10, 13:37
Thank you for the range report. This barrel is next on my shopping list. I have the 11.5" version and it is not too shabby either.
Good to know what mine will do once it is complete. Mine is close to yours, I will have a Trijicon TR24G w/ the German #4 in a Larue LT104.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c328/phazuka/HPIM0632.jpg
It looks like you have a solid 1/2 MOA rifle if you get rid of your horizontal stringing. Do you have a bag with ears for the front? They make a huge difference. Sometimes I get lazy and use the rear bag with tall ears ("V") for a super tight fit up front and cut a good 1/4" off the horizontal stinging.
Canonshooter
11-07-10, 15:15
It looks like you have a solid 1/2 MOA rifle if you get rid of your horizontal stringing. Do you have a bag with ears for the front? They make a huge difference. Sometimes I get lazy and use the rear bag with tall ears ("V") for a super tight fit up front and cut a good 1/4" off the horizontal stinging.
No, just a flat camera support bag filled with polyethylene beads. I place my support hand under the stock in the rear to dial in the elevation.
It was cold and damp at the range and I was not very steady, even with the rifle supported. Even at 4X I could see I the crosshairs dancing on the target. The rifle is obviously more accurate than I am capable of shooting it.
Canonshooter
11-07-10, 15:17
Good to know what mine will do once it is complete. Mine is close to yours, I will have a Trijicon TR24G w/ the German #4 in a Larue LT104.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c328/phazuka/HPIM0632.jpg
You'll no doubt squeeze more accuracy out of it with the Trijicon TR24!
5 shot groups will not tell you much about the overall capabilities of the weapon. If you shoot 5 5 shot groups, you will notice that they won't always overlay in the same spot. Shooting 10 shot groups will give you much more information about where that 6th round will go. Especially with 3 MOA ammo like XM193.
When I had a BCM SS410 it shot an average of 1.6" at 200 yards. 3 10 shot groups using Black Hills ammunition.
5 shot groups will not tell you much about the overall capabilities of the weapon. If you shoot 5 5 shot groups, you will notice that they won't always overlay in the same spot. Shooting 10 shot groups will give you much more information about where that 6th round will go. Especially with 3 MOA ammo like XM193.
How about two 20 round groups on the same target?
40 rounds of 75 gr Privi at 100 yards.
Only 1 round (barely) fell outside the 10 ring.
http://gallery.me.com/kevinfarrell/100058/DSCN0002/web.jpg?ver=12853558660001
Canonshooter
11-08-10, 19:10
How about two 20 round groups on the same target?
40 rounds of 75 gr Privi at 100 yards.
Only 1 round (barely) fell outside the 10 ring.
http://gallery.me.com/kevinfarrell/100058/DSCN0002/web.jpg?ver=12853558660001
The Dreaded Red X. I would love to see the target!
The Dreaded Red X. I would love to see the target!
Sent you a PM with the link.
http://gallery.me.com/kevinfarrell/100158/DSCN0002_2/web.jpg?ver=12892484410001
Now that's some nice paper. Give us some data please :)
Now that's some nice paper. Give us some data please :)
Upper is a LaRue Stealth with an 18" ion-bond barrel, 13.2" quad rail, Harris bipod on a LaRue QD mount.
Optic is a Mueller 8.5-25x44AO mildot on a LaRue SPR-E mount.
Not in the photo (because I just installed it) is a Battlecomp 1.0 in satin stainless.
Lower is a LaRue billet with a Stag LPK, 3# Timney trigger, KNS pins, Force 5 Tactical EBRv2, Rock River A2 stock.
Battle grip is by Tangodown and mags are 20 round pmags. Sling is a padded LaRue with my mods.
http://gallery.me.com/kevinfarrell/100158/DSCN0001_2/web.jpg?ver=12892484100001
Interested in the AMMO used.
Interested in the AMMO used.
75 gr Privi Partizan Match is what was used on that target.
Not the best ammo going, but this gun seems to like it.
I have some 75 gr Wolf Gold Match and 75 gr Hornady TAP training ammo that I want to try the next time out.
75 gr Privi Partizan Match is what was used on that target.
Not the best ammo going, but this gun seems to like it.
I have some 75 gr Wolf Gold Match and 75 gr Hornady TAP training ammo that I want to try the next time out.
Get yourself some Black Hills "Blue" box 77gr. I ran a box through my SR-15 and was amazed at the difference from standard 55gr.
Interesting results.
The BCM RECCE 14 I T&E'd for a recent article in Guns & Weapons for LE achieved similar results with 77 grain Black Hills from the GI profile 14.5" chomeoly barrel from a bipod with 9x optic (.4" best group at 50 yards).
The more time I spend with quality chrome-lined barrels and good ammo the less interested I become in bothering with stainless.
vicious_cb
11-10-10, 01:14
Sub-moa with M193, yeah right :rolleyes:
You need to shoot more rounds per group.
Get yourself some Black Hills "Blue" box 77gr. I ran a box through my SR-15 and was amazed at the difference from standard 55gr.
Went in search of some, and G&R was out of stock.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=M223R9
I'll have to do a little more searching...
I have a BCM SS410 16" that was Ion-bonded.
I've tried several bulk bullets that are decent (Privi 75s, MG 55s and Hornady 55s) and mine won't shoot MOA with my best handloads, all weighed to be spot on and with the brass match prepped, using standard CCI #41 primers. 1.5-1.75 MOA is about what I average across multiple 10-shot groups, depending on the day.
Match caliber rounds will hold 1 MOA. Possibly with better optics or a better shooter, it would do sub-MOA consistently.
I personally can't imagine pulling off sub MOA consistently with this barrel with M193 or any similar load, though.
I personally can't imagine pulling off sub MOA consistently with this barrel with M193 or any similar load, though.
For some reason people seem to forget that group size will be a measure of the least accurate component, the weak link in the chain so speak. A match barrel and a good shot will produce groups to the size of the ammunition.
For some reason people think that a match barrel like the excellent BCM SS410 will suddenly make mil surplus a ammo magically produce sub MOA groups, or they will suddenly become a superior shooter because they invested in a match barrel.
I have a BCM SS410 18" with a match 2 stage trigger, and a 14 power quality scope and it will produce sub MOA groups, if and only if I use good ammunition and I actually do my part as the shooter. It will not shoot XM193 in sub MOA groups because the ammo is not capable of that degree of accuracy. I was however pleasantly surprised when it produced sub MOA groups at 200 yards with Federal .223 commercial but not match ammo.
A well made stainless barrel like the BCM SS410 or Lothar Walther barrels will enable a shooter to get the best out of his chosen ammo and show him the limits of his skill.
Cameron
Belmont31R
11-14-10, 02:42
The more I shoot this new BCM upper, the more I like it.
I've only had this upper for a month, but so far, so good. On a previous range outing, I tested some Hornady 75 grain BTHP match ammo. Results were pretty good, averaging under 1 MOA. Here is a target from that outing;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-2.jpg
I went to the range again yesterday to shoot these three loads;
1. Hornady 75 grain BTHP match
2. SAA 77 grain SMK
3. XM193
My goal was to (1) see how well the SAA load shoots and (2) determine how much scope adjustment would be needed to compensate for the Hornady and Federal rounds using the SAA round as the starting point.
The following groups were shot in succession at 100 yards, front of rifle on a sandbag using my less-than-perfect "benchrest" technique. After fouling the barrel with 5 rounds of 75 grain BTHP hand loads, I shot the following groups;
5 rounds of the Hornady load;
[img]http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-3.jpg
I then immediately shot 5 rounds of the SAA load;
[img]http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-4.jpg
I was pleased to see that the POI was not significantly different between these two loads.
I then made some elevation adjustment to the scope and fired 5 more rounds of the SAA load;
[img]http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-5.jpg
I then immediately fired 5 rounds of the 55 grain XM193 load;
[img]http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/artarget-6.jpg
I then made a made a final adjustment to the scope and fired 5 more rounds of the hand load. Though I do not have the target, these 5 rounds were perfectly centered on the target and grouped like the other rounds - just over 1 MOA.
I certainly don't have many rounds through this upper yet, but my goal was to achieve 1 MOA accuracy with at least one load. It would appear that (1) this upper is capable of far better than 1 MOA accuracy with the right load and (2) [i]best of all, this upper shoots a variety of loads very well to nearly identical POI. The fact that it shoots XM193 very well to almost the same POI as the 75/77 grain loads is IMO a huge plus.
Full rifle specs;
- BCM SS410 16-inch mid-length upper complete with BCM bolt assembly, LaRue 12-inch rail, Gunfighter charging handle and ACC Blackout flash suppressor
- Bushnell Elite 4200 1.25-4X scope in LaRue mount
- Troy BUIS
- BM lower with Gissele SSA trigger
- BCM Ambidextrous Safety Selector
- Magpul MAID, CTR mil-spec and trigger guard
[img]http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/ar-8.jpg
Shoot some 10 shot groups, and then see. Also if those are 1" squares that doesnt average under MOA. Try several different types of ammo.
You'll find even a really good AR will an SS barrel will shoot about MOA with an excellent shooter. Some loads will shoot under that, some above that. It takes someone who really knows they are doing, and a top of the line barrel to get consistent sub MOA groups, and even then they will not do that with a wide variety of ammo. It usually takes custom hand loads.
An off the rack AR with off the shelf ammo with an average shooter should be glad to shoot 1.5 MOA.
If you want to shoot little groups "all day long" get a bolt gun. You're not going to do it with an AR with shelf ammo unless you get lucky. You'll notice all the people claiming these uber accurate guns never post targets of their groups, video, ect.
I have a Noveske N4, and I recently did some tests with about a dozen different ammos (non-scientific testing). I did find that the rifle certainly prefers certain brands, bullets, weights, etc., but what was revealed to me the most is my personal deficiency in shooting, and the limits on accuracy (for me), with a 3x combat scope. To be honest, with my ability and my setup, there was not a significant improvement from shooting Black Hills 75gr to shooting Federal value pack 55gr, at least not for what the cost is, and the type of shooting I mostly do. As I get better, and as I look for alternatives in optics, then I may do the test again. Bottom line for me is, I feel quite confident I can put my shots in the 5" black circle at 100 yds with pretty much any ammo, and even the Wolf shoots well.
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