View Full Version : Civilian Legal DBAL-I2 IR/Green Laser
LDI Civilian Legal DBAL-I2 IR/Green Laser (http://www.austereprovisions.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=LDI-DBALI2-CIVGIR)
Just as the title says, introduced at SHOT, a Civilian Legal IR and Green laser. Intro pricing is $895 with free shipping.
Green laser output: 5mW
IR laser output: 0.07mW
Fully legal Class 1 laser with full 1 year warranty from LDI.
Also, this price is for the more expensive green option (not red) which we requested early on from LDI while meeting at SHOT.
Thanks for the news. These are sure to be popular units for those making issue weapon clones
Will you be offering the vis-red laser version as well? Pricing?
Yes, If you would like a red/IR model just email email@example.com and we will get you setup. However, the green has been found to be faster to pick up on target and is the more expensive option. That being said our price for green is under our competitions price for red for the intro offer since we requested this configuration as soon as we were shown the civi legal line so the pricing will be roughly the same initially. Down the road expect the green to be roughly $100 more than the red.
Mike, have you been able to test out these under IR illum devices and how far out they reach, being a class I?
I have not had the opportunity to use this specific model under NODs with any of the common illuminators as they are very new to the market. Per LDI the IR laser should be easily distinguishable to 50+m under NODs in the beam of an illuminator.
I know that another company that has gotten on this bandwagon is in the process of testing one of the IR/Red units now for this scenario and I will spread that info as soon as I hear/see it.
Hope that helps,
I believe Civilian version has reduced beam power from original model?
Yes, in order to be legal and fall under the classification of Class 1 laser it has to have an output of 0.07mW IR and 5mW visible. This unit maxes out that classification, so it is the strongest it can possibly be and still be legal for purchase.
In comparison to MIL/LE only lasers you may have seen the power settings are lower for this unit. MIL/LE lasers range from 1mW to 50mW for the aiming portion and up to 150mW for the illuminator portion however these are classified as Class IIIb lasers and not legal for purchase except on agency/unit letterhead etc, of course a black market does exist but they are very hard to find and come with no warranty. Thus the reason these new units have caused such excitement. You are getting the same quality and durability LDI puts into its higher power lasers with the maximum legal output and warranty, etc.
I hope that answered your questions. If I can answer any other questions I will be happy to.
Hope that helps,
Mike, keep us posted as you hear things about performance/range etc. This is very exciting news, and I am personally very interested. However, given non-trivial $$, I'd want to know what these units actually can or can't do.
Another aspect that interests me is operational reliability of green laser across wide range of temperatures - talking to CT guys, I understand this was one of bigger issues with green ones.
It is true that green lasers have had issues with cold (if memory serves) whereas red had issues with being hot. To my knowledge this has been overcome in larger sized lasers such as the DBALa2 and DBALi2. I know that I have been present while they have been used in quite cold temps with no freezing or degradation of output. Granted that is completely anecdotal but I also take comfort in the product coming from LDI. They wouldnt put it out if it didnt work to the specs they establish necessary for the mission.
Just wanted to clarify, as there was some confusion on the output level of the IR side. It is actually 0.07mW. The 0.6mW came from conversation with LDI and was a mistake made by a number of parties involved.
FWIW, I spent the better part of last Tuesday night on Uncle Sam's dime using a PEQ15 on the low output setting hitting things at 450m, so I'm not too concerned with the low output on these, but I'm probably not alone in wanting to see pictures through a 1X tube at 100m or so.
IR lazers are controled by food and drug admin. Correct?
Also . What is the reasoning for restricting laser output to civilians? Class 1,2,3. It is just a laser.
I have seen DBALs for sale on differant forums that I could had purchased for $2500.00.
All lasers above a certain wattage (both visible and IR) are regulated by the FDA.
Civilian legal lasers fall into a category called "eye safe" which means that if a laser is shined into your eye for a small period of time it will not cause any lasting damage. Eye safe has some variables that must be specified like time and distance. Non-civi legal lasers are not eye safe and cause permanent damage to your eye, some with very quick exposures. IR lasers allow you to do this with out the recipient of the 'damage' from instantly knowing because they cannot see the beam with the naked eye, however the damage can still occur.
So, FDA regulates the distribution of these lasers to prevent them from potentially being used in a malicious or negligent manner which could cause irreversible damage to eyesight.
Lasers that are outside of that range will not be covered under warranty by most reputable manufacturers for civilians because in effect you are in possession of the laser by circumventing the law.
I hope that answers your questions. In addition I strongly encourage everyone that uses any laser both visible and IR, eye safe and not eye safe to develop a habit of handling them like a weapon. Treat them as if they are always on, and do not point them at anything you are not willing to destroy. It is very easy to inadvertently shine yourself or others if you do not follow these rules. It is bad form and potentially could cause permanent damage to your vision.
I understand the argument against regulation of items from upstanding citizens and wish that anyone who could purchase a gun could purchase a full output laser so dont confuse my explanation of the restrictions as supporting them. I am simply explaining to the best of my knowledge from working in the industry why the things are so tightly regulated.
Hope that helps,
To allay arguments and maybe just a little pimpage for a company doing something cool ... first a disclaimer, I have not used this product, but I have used ATIPAL's and as to the validity of high power LASERs on a rifle, not much, I run 99% of the time on low, high only if I needed to punch through ambient light but it will cause washout in pretty much any condition, but if that is the case I am normally sighting through my optic under my NODs. WRT LASER illum, even the high power's are not enough and the step up to the HPLI and IZLID is necessary ... but again, for rifle setups, low power is more than adequate.
I may need to add this to my collection, especially with the ability to put a dot sight on top.
BTW: WTF is this emoticon? :neo:
I have been looking at these too, specifically the green vis. laser, and my concern is the performance in below freezing temps. LDI's website even shows 0 C as the low end of the operating temperature range. I am not lucky enough to live in a temperate zone, and my rifle may get pulled out of the trunk in (well) below freezing temps. I realize this is an anecdotal example, but when people have seen these run in cold weather, how cold are we talking about?
I would be okay with the red, but I was hoping to get the better daytime visibility of the green.
BTW: WTF is this emoticon? :neo:
That is Neo from the Matrix, flyin' at ya head on. :)
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