Who needs optics???

[thedog]

I live in the country. I have a close neighbor who has free ranging dogs. I love dogs. Always have, but... Not when they come on my land scaring my wife and son and attempt to get into my chicken or turkey coops.
I have an open sighted M4. With it I have killed several dogs. Two crossing the creek that divides our properties, from about 60 yards. Both swimming, head shots. Said dogs sank, immediately.
A month or so ago, I got another one on a dark night from my porch. Light on, shooting into blackness at a shape running from right to left, distance of about twenty yards. One kill shot (head). Point and shoot. Sights were almost worthless in this situation.
Most of the other kills have been daytime, close up. These dogs reproduce constantly. I never go out of my way to kill them. No baiting, anti-freeze weiners or foul play. If they are on my property, of their own volition, that's when I shoot.
These animals have attacked many others. I feel that I might actually have a chance at having some big game (deer, nilgai, hogs etc.) on my place if it were'nt for these damn dogs.
So, anyway, optics are the big "thing" and look really cool on a weapon, but I am kind of old school and I say, "If it ain't broke... don't fix it." What do you think?

dog

[kmrtnsn]

"If it ain't broke... don't fix it."

Then why aren't you running a muzzle loader? Times change, change with them.

[thedog]

"If it ain't broke... don't fix it."

Then why aren't you running a muzzle loader? Times change, change with them.

A muzzle loader...

[Stickman]

What do you think?

dog


I don't think you understand the advantages that optics bring to the table. If you are happy with iron sights, that is great, for shooting dogs up close it probably doesn't matter all that much.

[Dunderway]

What do you think?
dog

I think that you are rambling on and on about shooting your neighbors dogs in order to justify your lack of a proper optic. I also think you've had a drink or two. I also think that your avatar should be a head shot of "Dog the Bounty Hunter" if your screen name is going to be "thedog". That's what I think.

[MistWolf]

Sounds like you have good eyes. But age is like the government- "If it ain't broke, keep fixin' it til it is"

[Rattlehead]

"If it ain't broke... don't fix it."

Then why aren't you running a muzzle loader? Times change, change with them.

Heh, great analogy.
Nothing wrong with getting a dot sight, if you really do not want a dot sight then you could get tritium BUIS.

[Dave L.]

I live in the country. I have a close neighbor who has free ranging dogs. I love dogs. Always have, but... Not when they come on my land scaring my wife and son and attempt to get into my chicken or turkey coops.
I have an open sighted M4. With it I have killed several dogs. Two crossing the creek that divides our properties, from about 60 yards. Both swimming, head shots. Said dogs sank, immediately.
A month or so ago, I got another one on a dark night from my porch. Light on, shooting into blackness at a shape running from right to left, distance of about twenty yards. One kill shot (head). Point and shoot. Sights were almost worthless in this situation.
Most of the other kills have been daytime, close up. These dogs reproduce constantly. I never go out of my way to kill them. No baiting, anti-freeze weiners or foul play. If they are on my property, of their own volition, that's when I shoot.
These animals have attacked many others. I feel that I might actually have a chance at having some big game (deer, nilgai, hogs etc.) on my place if it were'nt for these damn dogs.
So, anyway, optics are the big "thing" and look really cool on a weapon, but I am kind of old school and I say, "If it ain't broke... don't fix it." What do you think?

dog

Can someone translate this bumpkin to English for me?

...but seriously dude, this kind of shit doesn't belong here on M4C.

[M4Fundi]

I own big ranging dogs and have had to deal out swift justice to dogs gone wrong. If the dogs have collars I try and catch them. No collar nail them. Collars and aggressive I nail them. There are good neighbors with good dogs that just get loose. Hope you know the difference between the naughty ones and the rogue ones.

[Evil Bert]

Optics are a personal choice. Irons are all but useless at night unless you have a full moon (at the least) or better light. When people say you "have to have and optic" I think that is BS. Optics certainly help, but all things being equal you can be just as accurate with irons as with a red dot.

How many wars and battles have been fought and won without optics? too many to count. With that said, optics (primarily red dots) do provide an advantage: speed to accuracy. In other words, for your situation, it may not be necessary as the dogs are not shooting back. However, if the dog is charging a family member and you have only seconds before to shoot, optic can be the difference in such a scenario.

As for all the smart ass remarks from others, they are simply trolls... Just ignore them...

[Evil Bert]

Can someone translate this bumpkin to English for me?

...but seriously dude, this kind of shit doesn't belong here on M4C.

But seriously, he is explaining his experience and based on that, why he feels optics are over rated. If you can't understand that perhaps you should go back to school and take a class on comprehension. :dirol:

[ballistic]

Two words: target identification.

[wetidlerjr]

I think that you are rambling on and on about shooting your neighbors dogs in order to justify your lack of a proper optic. I also think you've had a drink or two. I also think that your avatar should be a head shot of "Dog the Bounty Hunter" if your screen name is going to be "thedog". That's what I think.


:laugh: Good answer !

[cqbdriver]

I think for the average shooter, if they felt the need for "shooting into blackness at a shape running from right to left, distance of about twenty yards" while hold a beer, a RDS would greatly increase their chances of a hit so that they can then identify what they shot close up.

[Crow Hunter]

A month or so ago, I got another one on a dark night from my porch. Light on, shooting into blackness at a shape running from right to left, distance of about twenty yards. One kill shot (head). Point and shoot. Sights were almost worthless in this situation.

dog

You really should invest in a weapon mounted light at the minimum. What if a neighbor had been out there trying to catch his dog? "Shooting into blackness" is dangerous and foolhardy. You didn't positively identify your target and you fired at it while it was moving. What if there had been some local teenager's out goofing off getting ready to roll your yard or your neigbor out trying to run down his dogs just 10 yards further back?

If you don't want optics, don't get them. But please, for the sake of all the other gun owners out there and the safety of those who live around you, don't get someone hurt because you wanted to be "old school". That is just more ammunition for the anti's and the gun safety crowd.

[Evil Bert]

You really should invest in a weapon mounted light at the minimum. What if a neighbor had been out there trying to catch his dog? "Shooting into blackness" is dangerous and foolhardy. You didn't positively identify your target and you fired at it while it was moving. What if there had been some local teenager's out goofing off getting ready to roll your yard or your neigbor out trying to run down his dogs just 10 yards further back?

If you don't want optics, don't get them. But please, for the sake of all the other gun owners out there and the safety of those who live around you, don't get someone hurt because you wanted to be "old school". That is just more ammunition for the anti's and the gun safety crowd.

Why do you all assume that nobody out there knows how to identify a target or knows how to use a firearm safely? Does everyone who posts about shooting their weapon at a wild animal need to clearly explain to us that they identified their target before pulling the trigger. It is not as if he was out in the middle of now where hunting and needed to ID his target before sending it down range. It was on his property and there is a huge difference between someone walking on their hind legs and a dog "moving from right to left."

nothing wrong with telling someone to always ID their target, but stop going on with this better than thou lecturing.

Because of the behavior of so many people on this forum, I would argue that there are a lot of people who do not post because they are afraid that assholes on this forum will jump all over them making the poster feel like an illiterate redneck "bumpkin."

With hat said granted there are some on every gun forum that fit that bill. But stop assuming everyone is.

[Gunfighter 9]

I live in the country. I have a close neighbor who has free ranging dogs. I love dogs. Always have, but... Not when they come on my land scaring my wife and son and attempt to get into my chicken or turkey coops.
I have an open sighted M4. With it I have killed several dogs. Two crossing the creek that divides our properties, from about 60 yards. Both swimming, head shots. Said dogs sank, immediately.
A month or so ago, I got another one on a dark night from my porch. Light on, shooting into blackness at a shape running from right to left, distance of about twenty yards. One kill shot (head). Point and shoot. Sights were almost worthless in this situation.
Most of the other kills have been daytime, close up. These dogs reproduce constantly. I never go out of my way to kill them. No baiting, anti-freeze weiners or foul play. If they are on my property, of their own volition, that's when I shoot.
These animals have attacked many others. I feel that I might actually have a chance at having some big game (deer, nilgai, hogs etc.) on my place if it were'nt for these damn dogs.
So, anyway, optics are the big "thing" and look really cool on a weapon, but I am kind of old school and I say, "If it ain't broke... don't fix it." What do you think?

dog

First off I am not sure what the point of your post is. The advantages of red dot sights are well documented and accepted pretty universally by the military and law enforcement community. If you don't see a use for them good for you, but many people, myself included find them to be an absolutely vital part of a defensive weapon. Second, shooting at an unidentified shape in the blackness is a surefire way to get yourself into substantial legal trouble. Just because you are on your property does not remove your responsiblity to correctly identify and asses a potential threat before you shoot. I think you should seriously reconsider your current practices before you mistakenly shoot someone. What if that shape in the blackness had been your son? Quite frankly your actions seem rather reckless and provide perfect fuel for the anti-gun fires stiring right now.

[lethal dose]

This thread is horse dung (with the exception of dunderway's post). O.P.- I suggest you reconsider posting about things like shooting at moving objects in the darkness. It makes you sound unintelligent. ;)

[Army Chief]

That's a wrap.

AC