.22 Conversion questions

[SuicideHz]

My FFL was trying to convince me I needed a .22 conversion and it just so happens that he had one...

I didn't catch the brand or anything but I imagine it was a Ciener.

$140 for the conversion with 1 ten round mag. extra 10 round mag $40. The mags are neat because they aren't mags- they are pretty much new followers for a standard mag.

Not my cup of tea I said. I told him what I needed was a suppressor first.

Then today it dawned on me. My 9mm suppressor will work just fine on my 11.5" BCM with a .22 kit.

So, I just spent a little time looking around and it seems $140 for a Ciener is a pretty good price. I'd just go with the one 10 round mag that it comes with but I would turn around and buy one or two of the Black Dog Machine polymer-ish mags that hold like 30 rounds plus or minus at $35 each.

Any comments on where I'm headed with this?

[Griz]

The mags are neat because they aren't mags- they are pretty much new followers for a standard mag.

Not a Ceiner. I don't think there are any high cap mags for that kit.

[SuicideHz]

Maybe it's an M261? It comes in a nice clear plastic poly bag with a thin clear oil all over everything. Nothing else fancy.

[taliv]

i've put several cases through my ceiner conversion kit in a couple of rifles, more than half of it with a 223 suppressor.

1. it's TONs of fun
2. it's cheap
3. it's kinda good for practicing first-round trigger control, but not much similarity after that
4. semi-reliable. doesn't matter how you lube it; expect malfunction rate around 1-3% depending on ammo, that can get frustrating. varies widely with ammo. like a lot of 22lr, they are very finicky about ammo. did i mention they're ammo sensitive? fortunately, wallyworld's federal bulk worked well, and so did the agila SSS 60 grainers. rem thunderbolt won't go 3 rnds without FTF. YMMV
5. the ceiner mags suck. they function, but painful to manipulate. the new plastic mags rock.
6. it was my experience that in a given range session, using my favorite carbine, i'd want to switch back and forth over the day from 223 to 22lr and after a few thousand rounds I had what I consider EXCESSIVE wear to all the bearing surfaces on the BCG. I suspect this is because 22lr ammo leaves a gritty residue all over the inside of the upper receiver and combined with my normally heavy lube shooting 223, essentially creates a lapping compound that took the finish right off my 223 BCG. at around 6000 rnds, I sold the upper and replaced it with a new one and decided not to ever use the ceiner kit in my new upper. now i only use it in a crappy old pre-ban.

if you do use a ceiner kit in an important rifle, you should consider thoroughly cleaning the receiver after shooting 22lr.
7. 22lr ammo will print in a different place compared to 223 ammo, so that may be an issue if your goal is cheap training using the same setup (upper/optic). I am not a training professional, but I am skeptical of the notion that if you practice 90% of the time with 22lr, and you bake your 22lr POA/POI into your brain, thinking you'll use the 223 POA when the need arises...

I will say that the last practical match i shot (using an ACOG with a chevron), there was a stage where i had to shoot 5 plates at 200 yrds after shooting 6 plates at 75 yrds. when it came time to shoot the 200 yrd plates, i had a major brain fart and used the wrong part of the reticle to aim. after a few rounds, i figured out where my impacts were and held over to quickly hit the last 4. it wasn't until a few hours after the match that i figured out what i'd done. in retrospect, i'm still surprised I continued using the wrong part of the reticle and holding over instead of using the right part of the reticle. wtf?

anyway, that's why i don't practice with a 22lr kit anymore

[MX5]

Black Dog makes 30 rd. mags for Ceiner kits.

Another alternative is using a 10/22 for practice, ammo costs, etc. I know many will say this is not the same and a poor choice; that's their opinion and I respect it. Having several ARs, 10/22s and numerous conversions with all their inherent plus and minus factors, one in particular is my favorite, but wouldn't be considered cost effective for most people:

* Ruger 10/22 with short threaded barrel
* Gemtech 'flash hider'
* RB Precision Evolution stock
* 4 - pos adjustable AR stock
* Ergo pistol grip
* Advanced Armament VFG
* EOTech sight
* Surefire light
* Viking Tactics light mount
* Viking Tactics sling
* Bolt and internal parts modified for reliable suppressed fire when
extremely dirty and lacking lubrication

Add the Norrell trigger pack I'm considering and everyone will think I've completely gone off the deep-end. But, you have to look at YOUR total picture, not mine. If you saw mine, you'd understand.

Consider the practical accuracy you want. The 10/22 gets the most practical accuracy available out of the .22 LR round within the limitations of the 'loose' 10/22 chamber. This is still considerably more accurate than conversions in a 5.56mm barrel. Some will argue otherwise, but dimensions are dimensions and when they shoot head-to-head, the differance is very obvious on paper. Maybe a conversion's accuracy is just fine for your application and the distance you'll shoot. Just consider it. How reliable is the conversion and what ammo must you feed it? How available and reliable are hi-cap mags? How much do they cost? Are there mag loaders available or will you spend your time stuffing tiny rounds in the mags while others shoot? Most 10/22s aren't fussy about their ammo diet.

For many shooters the best route might be to simply install a conversion kit in their AR, because your AR is already set-up to suit your desires. A low-cost 10/22 alternative could be to start with a factory stock Ruger and add the optic of your choice - adding accessories as your wallet, spouse and good judgement allow. Good luck!

[Harv]

Griz
Not a Ceiner. I don't think there are any high cap mags for that kit.

actually... They do. For $139 you get a adapter and a 10 rd mag or for $179 you get a adapter and a 30 rd mag.

Now that BDM makes fulls size 30 rd mags for these kits, they are selling a lot more. I am waiting for my Ciener 10 rd kit and 4 BDM mags to arrive and will post a review once I get out to the range.

I thought long and hard about the .22 kit before I purchased one.
I looked at Dedicated uppers (live the CZ-22) and Spikes tactical.
But nothing replicates my two AR's better then..well.. my two AR's..

So that it why I went with the Ciener. plus I'm not looking for .5MOA. I do most of my practice at 50 yds and closer. for this.. the .22 adapter will work just fine.

I want to be able to get more practice in and this is the most economical way to do it as far as I'm concerned. Anything that lets me get out and shoot more and help me to engrain the basic fundamentals of marksmenship is a good thing....

[Submariner]

So that it why I went with the Ciener. plus I'm not looking for .5MOA. I do most of my practice at 50 yds and closer. for this.. the .22 adapter will work just fine.

I want to be able to get more practice in and this is the most economical way to do it as far as I'm concerned. Anything that lets me get out and shoot more and help me to engrain the basic fundamentals of marksmenship is a good thing....

Federal bulk packs: $9.88/550 rounds.

"Anything that lets me get out and shoot more and help me to engrain the basic fundamentals of marksmenship:" Priceless.

[Griz]

Griz


actually... They do. For $139 you get a adapter and a 10 rd mag or for $179 you get a adapter and a 30 rd mag.


I should have been more verbose. The kit that SuicideHz has is not a Ceiner and I don't think they make high cap mags for his kit.

I have 3 Kuehl barreled uppers with Ceiner kits and about 40 thirty round mags so I'm *well* aware that high cap mags can be had for the Ceiner kit. ;)

[taliv]

Griz, ceiner makes 10 and 30 rnd mags. their 30 rounders are same construction as the 10 rnd ones, just longer.

[SuicideHz]

Black Dog makes 30 rd. mags for Ceiner kits.

Another alternative is using a 10/22 for practice, ammo costs, etc. I know many will say this is not the same and a poor choice; that's their opinion and I respect it. Having several ARs, 10/22s and numerous conversions with all their inherent plus and minus factors, one in particular is my favorite, but wouldn't be considered cost effective for most people:

* Ruger 10/22 with short threaded barrel
* Gemtech 'flash hider'
* RB Precision Evolution stock
* 4 - pos adjustable AR stock
* Ergo pistol grip
* Advanced Armament VFG
* EOTech sight
* Surefire light
* Viking Tactics light mount
* Viking Tactics sling
* Bolt and internal parts modified for reliable suppressed fire when
extremely dirty and lacking lubrication

Add the Norrell trigger pack I'm considering and everyone will think I've completely gone off the deep-end. But, you have to look at YOUR total picture, not mine. If you saw mine, you'd understand.

Consider the practical accuracy you want. The 10/22 gets the most practical accuracy available out of the .22 LR round within the limitations of the 'loose' 10/22 chamber. This is still considerably more accurate than conversions in a 5.56mm barrel. Some will argue otherwise, but dimensions are dimensions and when they shoot head-to-head, the differance is very obvious on paper. Maybe a conversion's accuracy is just fine for your application and the distance you'll shoot. Just consider it. How reliable is the conversion and what ammo must you feed it? How available and reliable are hi-cap mags? How much do they cost? Are there mag loaders available or will you spend your time stuffing tiny rounds in the mags while others shoot? Most 10/22s aren't fussy about their ammo diet.

For many shooters the best route might be to simply install a conversion kit in their AR, because your AR is already set-up to suit your desires. A low-cost 10/22 alternative could be to start with a factory stock Ruger and add the optic of your choice - adding accessories as your wallet, spouse and good judgement allow. Good luck!


THAT is a ridiculous setup no matter how you slice it. But to each his own and thanks for the input.

My kit (yes, I bought it) is an Olympic kit.

Hopefully high cap mags will work for it like those from BDM...

[Grin Reaper]

4. semi-reliable. doesn't matter how you lube it; expect malfunction rate around 1-3% depending on ammo, that can get frustrating. varies widely with ammo. like a lot of 22lr, they are very finicky about ammo. did i mention they're ammo sensitive? fortunately, wallyworld's federal bulk worked well, and so did the agila SSS 60 grainers. rem thunderbolt won't go 3 rnds without FTF. YMMV
Those aren't malfunctions. They're Spontaneous Training Opportunities.:D

[MX5]

THAT is a ridiculous setup no matter how you slice it. But to each his own and thanks for the input.

My kit (yes, I bought it) is an Olympic kit.

Hopefully high cap mags will work for it like those from BDM...

'Ridiculous' is a relative term. This is a dedicated, totally reliable, suppressed .22 LR SBR that uses commonly available off-the-shelf parts with widespread availability of magazines and loaders. It'll digest several thousand rounds before the accumulated crud starts to gum-up the works, then, a bit more lube and we're good to go. It has been totally reliable with all .22LR ammo except the Aguilla SSS, which it was never built for. From cheap ammo to match ammo it flat runs.

Price wise, this wouldn't be my recommendation to most shooters. A basic 10/22 set-up or a Ceiner conversion in an AR is the most economical solution for most. But, consider that within 3 months of shooting, this baby has already paid for itself. That's a lot of shooting! Spike's Tactical is making some very fine little shooters and I predict you'll be seeing a whole lot more .22 conversions of all varieties showing-up in the near future. When I started this project, most of the parts I used were in that box or drawer of leftovers from previous builds or projects - price is a relative thing.

Good luck and have fun!

[SuicideHz]

Why wouldn't they work in my OLY conversion?