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View Full Version : Mounting bipod to barrel... good or bad?



JrFreak
05-20-11, 21:11
Is this a good idea? I wanted to mount a bipod to my Stag but not enough room on the rail. I've seen barrel mount adapters, but know nothing about them.

rexles
05-20-11, 21:42
Putting a Bi-pod directly on the barell may mess up the natural vibrations of the barell and make you shoot some pretty nasty groups.

Magic_Salad0892
05-20-11, 21:44
That sounds retarded. May I ask how do you not have enough rail space?

JrFreak
05-20-11, 21:47
I thought that also. I have a free floating rail and mounting a bipod to the barrel seems like it would defeat that purpose.

I have a Magpul angled grip... takes up all the space.

Magic_Salad0892
05-20-11, 21:53
I thought that also. I have a free floating rail and mounting a bipod to the barrel seems like it would defeat that purpose.

I have a Magpul angled grip... takes up all the space.

May I ask why you'd need a AFG if you're doing bench shooting?

I can't envision a good reason why you'd need both on there.

If you feel this is drifting off topic, or I'm being interrogative tell me.

nimdabew
05-20-11, 21:53
That is some football bat idea. What accessory did you find to allow barrel mounted bi-pods?

MistWolf
05-20-11, 22:01
That is some football bat idea. What accessory did you find to allow barrel mounted bi-pods?

This is sarcasm right? Please don't tell me you've never seen barrel mounted bipods

(Not that I'd ever want to use one)

bullittmcqueen
05-20-11, 22:17
The logical next step would be to take the AFG off and put the bipod on to bench shoot, since it takes all of 10 seconds to remove it.

nimdabew
05-20-11, 22:21
This is sarcasm right? Please don't tell me you've never seen barrel mounted bipods

(Not that I'd ever want to use one)

Not on an AR and not a bi-pod mount that doesn't connect to the bayonett lug. I have seen them on PKM's and clones, but mostly crew served weapons. I don't know why someone would want to put a bi-pod on an assumed carbine length gas system AR. I say it is a football bat idea because an Ar is about as light as they come and if you can't control the harsh recoil of an AR-15 or be able to heft the rifle for more than 30 seconds while in prone or on a wall, there is something seriously wrong with your forearm and shoulder strength.

Redhat
05-20-11, 22:26
Not on an AR and not a bi-pod mount that doesn't connect to the bayonett lug. I have seen them on PKM's and clones, but mostly crew served weapons. I don't know why someone would want to put a bi-pod on an assumed carbine length gas system AR. I say it is a football bat idea because an Ar is about as light as they come and if you can't control the harsh recoil of an AR-15 or be able to heft the rifle for more than 30 seconds while in prone or on a wall, there is something seriously wrong with your forearm and shoulder strength.

The US Military thought it was a good idea back during the M16/M16A1 era. They issued them.

Do a little research and you can find out all about it.

OP - For best accuracy, it is best to keep things from touching the barrel

MistWolf
05-20-11, 22:35
Not on an AR and not a bi-pod mount that doesn't connect to the bayonett lug. I have seen them on PKM's and clones, but mostly crew served weapons. I don't know why someone would want to put a bi-pod on an assumed carbine length gas system AR. I say it is a football bat idea because an Ar is about as light as they come and if you can't control the harsh recoil of an AR-15 or be able to heft the rifle for more than 30 seconds while in prone or on a wall, there is something seriously wrong with your forearm and shoulder strength.

Heh! I agree a barrel mounted bipod on a carbine AR is close kin to a football bat. There are bipods that mount to the AR barrel like a clamp. Don't recall who makes these abominable football bats, as I wouldn't wish one on my ex-wife (her mother might be another story) and pay no mind to them

yallknowho
05-20-11, 23:07
your barrel will flex up from the weight. your groups will be high if you are using a receiver mounted optic. if you are using the FSB as the sight it may not affect it as much, since your sight will be moving with any barrel movement. It's generally not recommended.

JrFreak
05-21-11, 05:40
Thanks for the replies. Might have been a stupid question but I'm pretty new to the M4 world.

I'll probably axe the bipod for this gun and wait until I do my first build. Probably a longer range set-up with a 20-24" barrel.

Iraqgunz
05-21-11, 05:59
You may want to slow down, breath and do some reading first. Then I would forget what you think you know or heard about the M16 FOW.

You have plenty of options available. You could ditch the AFG and mount a quick release adaptor to your rail. You coould also purchase a different rail that has more space like the DD Omega X.

Going to a 20-24" barrel will do nothing for you. Barrel length only gives you increased muzzle velocity and not increased accuracy. This has been shown time and time again.

You should also sit down and define your intended purpose for said rifle, altough I can probably already guess.


Thanks for the replies. Might have been a stupid question but I'm pretty new to the M4 world.

I'll probably axe the bipod for this gun and wait until I do my first build. Probably a longer range set-up with a 20-24" barrel.

AMMOTECH
05-21-11, 09:55
The US Military thought it was a good idea back during the M16/M16A1 era. They issued them.

Do a little research and you can find out all about it.

OP - For best accuracy, it is best to keep things from touching the barrel

+1

http://www.gunaccessories.com/AR15-M16Parts/BI-MIL.jpg

AMMOTECH
05-21-11, 10:02
As others have covered; you need to remove your fore grip when bench shooting and then you can attach your bi-pod to the rail.
The rail system was designed so that you can adapt the weapon for the mission at hand. Take off what you don't need . Don't hang all your extras on there; life is not a photo shoot.
You can find cheap bi-pod adaptors if you shop around and Wal-Mart as a good copy of the Harris bi-pod that would make a good bench set-up or just shoot over a rest of some sort. Sand bags have been used for years with good results.

.
Winchester (Wal-Mart) bi-pod: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Winchester-99700-Adjustable-Bi-pod/14644713
Adaptor: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS425US425&q=Bi-Pod+Rail+Adapter

.

dfsutton
05-21-11, 15:34
Is this a good idea? I wanted to mount a bipod to my Stag but not enough room on the rail. I've seen barrel mount adapters, but know nothing about them.

Seems like common sense would dictate that this is a bad idea.

JrFreak
05-21-11, 18:59
Seems like common sense would dictate that this is a bad idea.

Seems like... but since stores carry many barrel mount bipods... maybe not.

Axcelea
05-21-11, 20:17
I have a DD Omega X 12.0 FSP rail. Will have a QD Bi-pod towards the front of the rail, QD offset flashlight on the rail to the left of the FSP, and a vertical fore grip somewhere in the middle of the first 7" of rail space. Generally just leave it all on though, for the most part I grip the hand guard between the bi-pod and vertical grip with my hand pulling back some and wedging a little on the grip and my thumb going up and around the hand guard some. Works really well although if needed I will take off the bi-pod and light to reduce frontal weight. I am rather fond of this set up and just throwing it out there.

As for bi-pods on barrels, will likely mess around something with accuracy and add a pressure point to the barrel I am sure.

Ridge_Runner_5
05-22-11, 00:42
The proper resolution is to get a free float handguard long enough for both the AFG and the bipod ;)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/DSC_0012.jpg

JrFreak
06-02-11, 18:30
Going to a 20-24" barrel will do nothing for you. Barrel length only gives you increased muzzle velocity and not increased accuracy. This has been shown time and time again.

I'll have to disagree with you on that. A faster moving bullet will resist external forces (ie - gravity, wind, etc.) more so than a slower moving bullet. That itself will improve accuracy... unless you shoot in a vacuum I guess...

Iraqgunz
06-02-11, 18:39
You can disagree all you want, but it is pretty much proven. People who shoot SBR's all the time prove it.

I don't shoot in a vacuum either. Thanks


I'll have to disagree with you on that. A faster moving bullet will resist external forces (ie - gravity, wind, etc.) more so than a slower moving bullet. That itself will improve accuracy... unless you shoot in a vacuum I guess...

JrFreak
06-02-11, 18:43
Well, they must somehow defy the laws of physics then...

As someone who has been involved in statistical analysis for years, I'd like to see their data.

Iraqgunz
06-02-11, 18:56
I'm not talking about "textbook" stuff. I am referring to actually getting out and shooting.

You can believe what you want. The point I was making is that there may be some accuracy gain, but compared to the trade off of carrying around a 17th century musket, I'll pass.

I used an 18" SPR gun in the SPR sniper course and was hitting steel targets past 800 yards.

I watched the instructor who was a USMC sniper hit out to 800 with a 13-14" barreled PoF .308 gun using a Leupold scope and 175gr. match ammo.


Well, they must somehow defy the laws of physics then...

As someone who has been involved in statistical analysis for years, I'd like to see their data.

Axcelea
06-02-11, 20:05
I'll have to disagree with you on that. A faster moving bullet will resist external forces (ie - gravity, wind, etc.) more so than a slower moving bullet. That itself will improve accuracy... unless you shoot in a vacuum I guess...

Extra velocity doesn't really resist external forces more, it merely decreases the time of exposure. The end result is a faster round experiences less drop due to gravity and shift due to wind because its not exposed as long to these forces. This isn't so much accuracy of the rifle as its just wind drift and drop.

Accuracy on the other hand comes from the quality of rifling, twist rate, bullet, barrel harmonics, barrel length, etc and to a certain amount of each where a 5.56 round really only needs something like 10" of a good barrel to be fully stabilized where a 20"+ barrel won't stabilize it anymore. So if its a good rifle/ammunition combination there is no difference between 10" and 20" barrels so if it was shot in a 0g vacuum there will be no notable difference in the bullet's impact point, just one can be traveling slower.

AMMOTECH
06-11-11, 09:01
+1

http://www.gunaccessories.com/AR15-M16Parts/BI-MIL.jpg

Mounted and in use.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100621-F-5586B-975.jpg

.

EW1066
06-11-11, 10:49
I'll have to disagree with you on that. A faster moving bullet will resist external forces (ie - gravity, wind, etc.) more so than a slower moving bullet. That itself will improve accuracy... unless you shoot in a vacuum I guess...

Some how you have mistaken a faster bullet for a heavier bullet. The heavier bullet, as a result of its greater inertia, will have more resistance external forces.



Extra velocity doesn't really resist external forces more, it merely decreases the time of exposure. The end result is a faster round experiences less drop due to gravity and shift due to wind because its not exposed as long to these forces. This isn't so much accuracy of the rifle as its just wind drift and drop.

Drop due to gravity is constant. A faster bullet will travel a longer distance from a given elevation, so the drop is less as a percentage of distance traveled.


EDUB



Now back to your regularly scheduled program already in progress...

Axcelea
06-11-11, 15:00
Drop due to gravity is constant. A faster bullet will travel a longer distance from a given elevation, so the drop is less as a percentage of distance traveled.


I meant a faster bullet will experience less drop due to gravity and shift due to wind over a given distance (point A to B) then a slower one not that a faster bullet falls at a slower rate over time. I don't think I was clear enough looking back, does look like it can be construed to dropping less in general so to clarify a faster bullet drops less over a given distance.

Ghost__1
06-11-11, 15:18
I think that using the barrel mounted bipod for most people would be ok. The point some were trying to make about accuracy was about barrel harmonics. Which is a very weird science that depends on everything touching the barrel, what its made of, how its made, any blems, and pretty much everything else you can think of.

In fact I was just having this discussion last night with my shooter about a M24 we have that wouldn't hold -1MOA. I tried everything from checking optics to the free float. I finally figured out that hand tightening the thread protector too much was throwing the gun out of tune. I had to get it right and mark it.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to share the story. I think I have a high speed video illustrating the barrel when a shot is fired. Its from a bolt gun though. I'll try to find it.

ETA actually a link with all the info one may want might be better. http://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm

The_War_Wagon
06-11-11, 15:54
Why would you run a foregrip (angled or not) AND a bipod? :confused: It's either a CQB OR a target rifle - pick one.

AMMOTECH
06-11-11, 16:11
Why would you run a foregrip (angled or not) AND a bipod? :confused: It's either a CQB OR a target rifle - pick one.

Not true. Missions and targets can and do change.

Bi-pod/VFG with RDS being used like a target rifle:
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/US%20Army%20-%203/8b10df40.jpg

.

Axcelea
06-11-11, 18:15
Mission can change, targets can change, not to mention if your like me then the only time you have a clue what your mission and target is is when you go to the range and plan out the day. Honestly if I had to use my carbine for something life and death serious I couldn't nearly100% predict what it would be.

Probably CQB and not going beyond ten yards (home defense) but other than that there could be heavy prone use, kneeling behind cover, or similar events where a bi-pod would be nice.

I will say though I see room to question using both during CQB where the bi-pod adds some extra weight and volume and forward weight at that but when using a bi-pod I rather like having a vertical fore grip and find it better for me to be more stable and "solid".

donwalk
06-11-11, 20:52
just carry a 'sandbag' (the one i use is 4.5"x9"x2" and has a draw string closure) when hunting and fill/empty as needed...bi-pods attached to barrels tend to throw off accuracy for more than one reason.

if CQB is your goal, a bi-pod is usually of little use/value in fast furious fights. OTOH, a one shot occurrence may be useful with a barrel mounted bi-pod.

bi-pods work best when attached to a good, heavy duty, stock that's affixed to a free floated barrel as is attested to by today's modern sniper/target rifles.

it's your choice and you have a lot of them. ;)

sgtjosh
06-11-11, 22:08
You may want to slow down, breath and do some reading first. Then I would forget what you think you know or heard about the M16 FOW.

You have plenty of options available. You could ditch the AFG and mount a quick release adaptor to your rail. You coould also purchase a different rail that has more space like the DD Omega X.

Going to a 20-24" barrel will do nothing for you. Barrel length only gives you increased muzzle velocity and not increased accuracy. This has been shown time and time again.

You should also sit down and define your intended purpose for said rifle, altough I can probably already guess.

Assuming you are using iron sights, wouldn't the longer sight radius that a longer barrel has the potential to provide be beneficial to accuracy?

I am not looking to be augmentative, just trying to learn from those who know more.

Failure2Stop
06-11-11, 22:24
Mounted and in use.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100621-F-5586B-975.jpg

.

Is this the "NO" picture?


Assuming you are using iron sights, wouldn't the longer sight radius that a longer barrel has the potential to provide be beneficial to accuracy?


If you are limited to iron sights, yes, greate sight radius makes sight alignment easier, and therefore improves the shooter's precision capability.

Then again, I can stick a 12" rail on a 12.5" barrel and with a rail mounted front sight, rival the sight radius of a standard fixed FSB 20" barrel.

But I can also stick on an optic and make the point moot.

OMD
06-11-11, 23:25
Damn...it is the shooter...I don't care about +6" of sight radius. Have you seen pros shoot apples at 100yards with a snubby??? That aint about sight radius!