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87GN
05-21-11, 01:46
Youtube video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAhcU_NfYQA)

Thought it might interest some here. I will probably make a few more videos about Sig using other footage. All of this stuff will be posted on The Firearm Blog, if you're interested.

Silvanus
05-21-11, 05:09
Thanks for posting that link. Itīs interesting to see some of the steps involved in manufacturing my favorite pistols :D (the P226 & 229)

loupav
05-21-11, 09:42
Thanks for posting that video.

HK45
05-21-11, 10:27
Interesting. But they left out the part where they buy the cheapest MIM parts they can find.

Greg Bell
05-21-11, 10:30
Fascinating. I should have been an engineer.

KhanRad
05-21-11, 11:00
Interesting. But they left out the part where they buy the cheapest MIM parts they can find.

Well, they only talked about making the slides frames and barrels. :D

brian704
05-21-11, 12:05
thanks for posting i enjoyed that.

loupav
05-21-11, 12:32
Interesting. But they left out the part where they buy the cheapest MIM parts they can find.

I couldn't help it believe that was SIG Germany. Didn't anyone notice the blonde guy? :p

Mark71
05-21-11, 16:16
Thanks for the link. Looking forward to seeing some other videos.

crazymoose
05-21-11, 19:17
Interesting video. I think they should not have repeatedly emphasized how efficient the process is, and how few machining operations are required, given what SIG charges for their guns these days.

87GN
05-21-11, 19:17
This is not a Sig video. I made the video.

rdm
05-21-11, 19:24
Fascinating. I should have been an engineer.

Engineering is the fun part, the calculus, and physics required is not :( .

Wildcat
05-21-11, 22:31
Thank you for the video.

Too bad SIG doesn't have the process they once used for making the P226 slide. Its normal for slides to be milled from a piece of bar stock but SIG didn't always do it that way.

Sig slides used to start life as heavy gauge sheet metal that was formed, welded, milled and heat treated. The breech blocks were milled separately and married up during assembly.

87GN
05-21-11, 22:34
Thank you for the video.

Too bad SIG doesn't have the process they once used for making the P226 slide. Its normal for slides to be milled from a piece of bar stock but SIG didn't always do it that way.

Sig slides used to start life as heavy gauge sheet metal that was formed, welded, milled and heat treated. The breech blocks were milled separately and married up during assembly.

Yes, that part of the factory is still "there" for parts support for a British military contract, apparently. I was going to get video but it is in a separate building that was locked and also not operational at the time. It would have been cool to see both processes in operation.

The Sig folks told me that the switch resulted in improved durability.

S-1
05-22-11, 00:48
Thank you for the video.

Too bad SIG doesn't have the process they once used for making the P226 slide. Its normal for slides to be milled from a piece of bar stock but SIG didn't always do it that way.

Sig slides used to start life as heavy gauge sheet metal that was formed, welded, milled and heat treated. The breech blocks were milled separately and married up during assembly.

Why is it "too bad" that they don't use the old folded slides? The newer milled slides are more durable, more rust resistant, have less parts and require less maintenance.

KhanRad
05-22-11, 09:25
Why is it "too bad" that they don't use the old folded slides? The newer milled slides are more durable, more rust resistant, have less parts and require less maintenance.

In theory it should be better if quality and materials are used correctly. I have an officer who has been running Sig P220s for years in competitions. Two years ago he switched from his stamped slide P220s to the 5" long slide P220 with stainless milled slide. This design has a stainless steel internal extractor as well. After he first got it, he had to send the slide back to Sig for replacement after it slide off the cleaning table and onto a hard wood floor. The impact bent the rails and would not slide back onto the frame.

After about 5000rds, the breech face was dimpling and preventing a cartridge from sliding up the face to allow smooth chambering. I recall Dr. Roberts commenting that two major departments in California that he worked with were having similar problems with their P220s and soft stainless slides. This was never a problem with the stamped slide P220s as the breech block was made from hardened carbon steel.

The other problem this officer had was with the internal extractor, which was the newer style and made from stainless steel. He replaced it with factory extractors three times, and he still consistantly suffered extraction problems. However, he found a gun smith who made him a new one from a high carbon spring steel and it worked like a charm.

So, there are definately benefits to the old design, and the use of carbon steel for some parts. The Brit contract for Sigs specified the stamped slide P226, and Glock slides have been made from a high carbon steel for decades. Sig has gotten rid of the stainless internal extractor as it was so problematic. As for part counts, both the milled slide external extractor classic Sigs, and the stamped slide Sigs have exactly 11 parts associated with the slide. The extractor assembly of the milled slide is three parts, while the stamped slide Sigs is only one part.

Wildcat
05-22-11, 09:47
Why is it "too bad" that they don't use the old folded slides? The newer milled slides are more durable, more rust resistant, have less parts and require less maintenance.


Be careful reading what isn't there. I did not say it was too bad they don't -use- the folded slides. Just that they couldn't demonstrate the process.

From the manufacturing process point of view, making the slides using the previous method is a bit more interesting (to me anyway).

If you hand me a solid bar of steel and tell me that this is what SIG uses to make slides by putting it into a machine that cuts away everything that isn't a slide, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to sort that out. You can go just about anywhere that parts are CNC milled and see that process in action. Almost everyone who makes quality pistols uses that method today.

If you point to a spool of 3mm thick steel sheet stock and say this is what SIG uses to make slides...there is a process you won't find in many places and would be worth an in-depth look.

The durability discussion we can have separately.

m39nut
05-22-11, 11:21
I can safely say there is probably some engineer relieved he does not have to do the welded process as much anymore. I can say from my personal experience it is very efficient but there are a lot of variables that such as residual stresses in the stamping and welding that you have to worry about when you start milling a welded and stamped assembly. I have learned many of these lessons the hard way.

S-1
05-22-11, 14:09
Snip.

Yeah, I have heard of the problems with the internal extractor and the milled slides on the P220. SIG now ships them with the external extractor like all of the other milled models and they seem to work fine, from what I have seen on other officers P220's.

I have heard the opposite of you regarding the British .mil contract. SIG Germany no longer produces the folded slides either, so it makes me wonder if the new contracts are for the milled slide and Exeter is is just producing replacement parts for a few elements of the British military that have been using 226's for years. 87GN, do you know the specifics about this?

I do now that certain replacement parts are becoming pretty scarce for the older milled slides.

S-1
05-22-11, 14:11
Be careful reading what isn't there. I did not say it was too bad they don't -use- the folded slides. Just that they couldn't demonstrate the process.

From the manufacturing process point of view, making the slides using the previous method is a bit more interesting (to me anyway).


Gotcha.

87GN
05-22-11, 14:34
I have heard the opposite of you regarding the British .mil contract. SIG Germany no longer produces the folded slides either, so it makes me wonder if the new contracts are for the milled slide and Exeter is is just producing replacement parts for a few elements of the British military that have been using 226's for years. 87GN, do you know the specifics about this?

I don't. I can say that the stamping area was pretty much boarded up. I can ask though.

Striker
05-22-11, 15:04
Yeah, I have heard of the problems with the internal extractor and the milled slides on the P220. SIG now ships them with the external extractor like all of the other milled models and they seem to work fine, from what I have seen on other officers P220's.

I have heard the opposite of you regarding the British .mil contract. SIG Germany no longer produces the folded slides either, so it makes me wonder if the new contracts are for the milled slide and Exeter is is just producing replacement parts for a few elements of the British military that have been using 226's for years. 87GN, do you know the specifics about this?

I do now that certain replacement parts are becoming pretty scarce for the older milled slides.

Which parts are becoming scarce? I ask because I called Sig the other day and I asked if they were still making parts for the folded slides and the CS guy told me yes, so in theory the parts should readily available or at least something that we can order from Sig.

S-1
05-22-11, 15:41
Which parts are becoming scarce? I ask because I called Sig the other day and I asked if they were still making parts for the folded slides and the CS guy told me yes, so in theory the parts should readily available or at least something that we can order from Sig.

Breach blocks are one of them. You can still get the roll pins and springs etc for regular PM.

KhanRad
05-22-11, 17:03
Which parts are becoming scarce? I ask because I called Sig the other day and I asked if they were still making parts for the folded slides and the CS guy told me yes, so in theory the parts should readily available or at least something that we can order from Sig.

As S-1 pointing out, some of the slide parts cannot be replaced and are discontinued. Those would be the carbon slide itself, and the breech block. All other parts are still produced by Sig as spare parts. It will be many decades before they stop making those parts as so many stamped slide Sigs are still in Federal service. The only reason to replace the slide or breech block would be due to some sort of catastrophic failure such as a KB which could damage those parts(highly rare). I have a like new spare P226/P228 9mm breech block in my parts kit, but I doubt I'll ever need it. There "might" be a way to buy a slide or breech block of you hammer domestic and international sources, but you're better off just buying a parts gun.

dcgallim
05-22-11, 17:23
Change from slide parts. It says they are assembling Sig Pros, I've never seen those grips on a Sig Pro they look more like the E2 grips(4:00 mark). Are they making different grips for the 2022 and where can I get some.

Shadow1198
05-23-11, 00:10
Change from slide parts. It says they are assembling Sig Pros, I've never seen those grips on a Sig Pro they look more like the E2 grips(4:00 mark). Are they making different grips for the 2022 and where can I get some.

They offer a new slim grip now, which is sort of like the E2:

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-sigpro-grips-small.html

crazymoose
05-23-11, 01:34
This is not a Sig video. I made the video.

Nice. Given the good quality, I'd just assumed that it was a company promo piece.

87GN
05-23-11, 01:36
Nice. Given the good quality, I'd just assumed that it was a company promo piece.

Thanks! That's what I was going for. Though I want to improve the quality of the titles/transitions.

S-1
05-23-11, 01:47
They offer a new slim grip now, which is sort of like the E2:

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-sigpro-grips-small.html

I believe that the SP2022's that are being shipped are coming with a medium and small size backstrap.

dcgallim
05-23-11, 08:32
They offer a new slim grip now, which is sort of like the E2:

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-sigpro-grips-small.html

Thanks, I googled and couldn't find anything. I like the medium grips but I'll give those a try.