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Has anyone in the industry currently or or in the past played with Wave Springs, like these, (http://www.smalley.com/pdfs/CC2007.pdf) in firearms design?
I'm sure the cost is higher, but they could aid in making things more compact. Maybe already compact systems more reliable. Recoil assemblies immediately come to mind.
They advertise in the ASME magazine, and every time I see them I think of this. Figured I'd throw it out there.
militarymoron
06-10-11, 20:35
as i understand it, the advantage of the wave spring is that it reduces the spring length by 50%, making for a more compact assembly. however, with a weapon recoil assembly, the limiting factor is the length of the round being fed, which determines the travel of the bolt or slide. the slide, bolt or whatever will still need to travel back far enough to strip the round from the feeding device and eject the empty case, so you might not be able to take advantage of a shorter spring in that particular application.
they're already used under the delta ring on the AR though :)
The image below is from the catalog I linked above. I understand what you are saying, and maybe I'm misinterpreting what this diagram represents. My understanding is, you are able to have equal deflection in a smaller operating area. The receiver extension for instance, it could be half as long but still offer the buffer and BCG the same deflection.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2vv5hqr.png
The receiver extension for instance, it could be half as long but still offer the buffer and BCG the same deflection.
The buffer bottoms out on the back of the receiver extension, not the action spring.
Heavy Metal
06-10-11, 21:47
The image below is from the catalog I linked above. I understand what you are saying, and maybe I'm misinterpreting what this diagram represents. My understanding is, you are able to have equal deflection in a smaller operating area. The receiver extension for instance, it could be half as long but still offer the buffer and BCG the same deflection.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2vv5hqr.png
Looks like the slip-ring spring to me.
What would happen if you removed the buffer? With a spring to compensate? I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm genuinely curious.
eta...I was also just trying to come up with an example. It was obviously a poor one. Apparently they've been used in pump shotgun mags at one point or another.
Heavy Metal
06-10-11, 22:05
The rear of the Key on the Bolt Carrier would impact the bridge of the lower reciever, likely destroying or severly damaging it(the lower).
Atticus_1354
06-10-11, 22:14
The rear of the Key on the Bolt Carrier would impact the bridge of the lower reciever, likely destroying or severly damaging it(the lower).
First thing that came to my mind when you said this is that you could have a small vestigial buffer.
First thing that came to my mind when you said this is that you could have a small vestigial buffer.
The one I had in mind from Smalley is the "Crest-to-Crest with Shim Ends". It has a flat surface on both sides. I don't see how it would be any different than the buffer contacting the back of the carrier. Or the retainer pin for that matter.
What is the velocity of the BCG after a round is fired? (eta...I think I can use this (http://yarchive.net/gun/pistol/1911_dynamics.html) info to solve for what I'm asking for here)
Again, I'm not trying to replace the action spring. I was just using that as an example.
Has anyone in the industry currently or or in the past played with Wave Springs, like these, (http://www.smalley.com/pdfs/CC2007.pdf) in firearms design?
I'm sure the cost is higher, but they could aid in making things more compact. Maybe already compact systems more reliable. Recoil assemblies immediately come to mind.
They advertise in the ASME magazine, and every time I see them I think of this. Figured I'd throw it out there.
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Doesn't an AR already use "wave springs"...behind the Delta Ring? Just not for recoil though.
.
The one I had in mind from Smalley is the "Crest-to-Crest with Shim Ends". It has a flat surface on both sides. I don't see how it would be any different than the buffer contacting the back of the carrier. Or the retainer pin for that matter.
What is the velocity of the BCG after a round is fired? (eta...I think I can use this (http://yarchive.net/gun/pistol/1911_dynamics.html) info to solve for what I'm asking for here)
Again, I'm not trying to replace the action spring. I was just using that as an example.
These are not compression springs. Look through the brochure you linked to and try and find a photo of an application that is remotely similar to an action spring. You won't find one.
From the brochure:
"Uses are typically applications requiring LOW-MEDIUM spring rates and large deflections with LOW-MEDIUM forces."
The fact that the individual coils are spot welded together should be enough to make you run from them.
That makes sense. I really just didn't know what they consider a low-medium force. You would think that an explosion would be a high force, but I've gotten in trouble assuming stuff like that before. I'm taking Dynamics right now, so I'm still learning about a lot of this stuff.
Anyhow, thanks for the input everyone.
If nothing else came of this, I found that usenet archive which seems to contain some interesting information.
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