View Full Version : AR trigger grease
I just bought a very lightly used LMT 2 stage trigger and am about to install it. All the previous threads seem to recommend AeroShell grease #6 or Mobil #28. I have two questions:
1. Obviously the pins should be greased. How about the contact points on the sear and hammer? Many other posts, including the famous "15 minute trigger job" floating around, suggest polishing these surfaces. Wouldn't grease inhibit this polishing? I am in no way going to stone or polish anything, and I can stand less than "baby butt" smoothness until it breaks in - not a bench rest guy. And I'm not going to send it to Springfield or anyone else. I just want to install it once, the best it can be, and go shoot it.
2. The 2 greases above seem a) pricey and b) come in a big tube. Can a good Moly lube/paste from an auto parts place give just as good results? If not, anyone know where I can find a small tube (like comes with the Geisselle)?
I try to be a no voodoo guy - bore snake, clean with Hoppe's elite and lube with Mobile 1 - and don't want to add anything to the KISS routine unless really needed. Thanks for any advice.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=133862
This stuff has lasted for over 5000 rounds in my AR. It would have gone longer but I cleaned everything at that point and put on some fresh stuff.
That said, I've also used lithium grease from the auto parts store and I don't notice much of a difference.
Geissele Automatics come with a tube of Mobil #28 that's gotta tell you something...
Geissele Automatics come with a tube of Mobil #28 that's gotta tell you something...
And the instructions tell you to put it on the engagement surfaces.
Geissele Automatics come with a tube of Mobil #28 that's gotta tell you something...
And the instructions tell you to put it on the engagement surfaces.
Yeah, I get both those parts. Strongly considered just getting an SSA and be done with it. IIRC, the Geissele pins are a closer fit than standard and likely the engagement surfaces are already polished. I was just thinking the LMT is a bet less "refined", uses the stock pins, and having read some possibly dubious advice about polishing it myself or using lapping compound to smooth things out (not on a Geiselle) that putting lube on them immediately would have the opposite effect.
Also not disinclined to spend $12 on a HUGE tub of Mobile #28 (My can of Loctite C5 I use on my Glocks will last several lifetimes) I just don't want to spend $ if something simpler would suffice for a part that doesn't need routine lube.
Thanks for indulging the noob o wise gurus of the forum.
I'm going to let you in on a dirty little secret, when it comes to triggers grease is grease. When you start talking about high pressures and temps, or other high stress applications it can start to get complicated, but an AR trigger group is none of the above. I use wheel bearing grease for just about everything gun related because if it can hold under tens of thousands of miles and still be good, nothing that happens in a firearm is going to hurt it. If i want to go supper slippery I use a moly paste I got from Bushmaster. I bought two 35mm film canister sized containers of this stuff almost 15 years ago, and I haven't run out yet.
Thank you. Maybe I was fishing for this validation.
I started as a "Mil Spec, CLP only" as a noob to the AR, then tried everything new and/or better. Finally settled on what worked, for the cheapest and easiest. In fact, when the Hoppes Elite runs out will just clean with Simple Green HD (purple stuff) available at Home Depot. Learned about that when I owned a (cough, cough) AK and it worked great.
Just never been a believer in using the latest, greatest, distilled virgin breast sweat essence peddled for $15 per oz, or to paraphrase Iraqgunz in a recent thread, "use Mobile 1, Vagisil or Duncan Hines vanilla frosting". Just lube it well, don't be to anal-retentive about cleaning it use the savings to buy more ammo and shoot the thing.
SomeOtherGuy
06-19-11, 20:31
I'm going to let you in on a dirty little secret, when it comes to triggers grease is grease. When you start talking about high pressures and temps, or other high stress applications it can start to get complicated, but an AR trigger group is none of the above. I use wheel bearing grease for just about everything gun related because if it can hold under tens of thousands of miles and still be good, nothing that happens in a firearm is going to hurt it. If i want to go supper slippery I use a moly paste I got from Bushmaster. I bought two 35mm film canister sized containers of this stuff almost 15 years ago, and I haven't run out yet.
Glad I'm not the only one. I've been using a fairly ordinary red-colored lithium complex grease, NLGI #1 (the thicker #2 is more common) that I bought from the auto parts section of a local supermart - about $3 for 16oz I believe. It works great. Have used it on two Geissele triggers and two Armalite triggers on the contact areas. I use a gun oil (FP-10 or Weaponshield in my case) on the joint of trigger/hammer and their respective pins. The tiny tubes of grease that Geissele includes are unopened awaiting future use. Maybe I'll use that on my next Geissele install and see if I can tell any difference.
EzGoingKev
06-19-11, 21:34
I use Redline Racing's assembly lube on mine.
When I had the stock trigger it kind of sucked. I took it out, cleaned everything up, and lubed it with the Redline and it was a shite load better.
This http://www.smithenterprise.com/spec/XF-7_Weapons_Lubricant.pdf Or at Maxpedition http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/MD-LABS-XF-7-35p253.htm
Priced right too.
It can be used on everything.
APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS: XF-7 must be applied only over clean, dry metal for best results.
DO NOT apply over other lubricant residue or fouling, as this will keep the XF-7 from adhering properly to the metal substrate. Other lubes can be applied over XF-7, but they may adversely affect the adhesion and performance of the XF-7. Metal surfaces can be prepped for XF-7 application by washing in warm soap and water and then drying thoroughly, or by degreasing with chemical degreasers (Acetone, MEK, etc.) that leave no residue behind. Use all appropriate solvent handling safety procedures.
1. Apply XF-7 by squeezing a small amount out of the syringe and onto the surface of the metal to be protected and lubricated.
2. Rub it in thoroughly with fingers, patch or brush.
3. Remove excess XF-7
When finished, you should have a viable but thin, uniform layer of XF-7 over the entire surface to be lubricated and protected.
A little goes a long way. XF-7 will not drip, run or melt.
Note: XF-7 can be used to prevent corrosion in the gun bores, but care must be taken to remove excess lubricant. Run a patch lightly coated with XF-7 through a clean bore once, breach from muzzle for best results. For best accuracy, run a dry patch through the bore prior to firing.
Remove XF-7 from metal, hands, or clothing by washing with soap and water. Note that XF-7 requires NO hazmat equipment to handle, apply, store or dispose.
When it comes to trigger's, I follow the way of the Trigger Oracle..Bill G and his magical lube's:D The old was the red aviation mobil grease..the new is this yellow shell aeroshell #6.
All grease makes the world of difference but this new grease that Bill and GA are using seems to be a touch above..I'm religious about the grease cause these triggers when greased properly have a feel and break that is just addictive as hell.
Okay, 8 bones for a lifetime supply. That's more like it. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroshellgrease.php. Probably work wonders on the little one's bicycle, too.
Thanks Trident.
The AeroShell 6 is microgel thickened, mineral oil base lube. Not good for weapons.
Good luck if you use it anywhere else on your weapon.
M
The AeroShell 6 is microgel thickened, mineral oil base lube. Not good for weapons.
Good luck if you use it anywhere else on your weapon.
M
Umm, isn't mineral oil the main ingredient in nearly all gun oils? And Geissele is not exactly an unproven start up. Don't know much about microgel thickening though. Can you elaborate?
bananaman,
I think you just answered your own question. Why don't you just use mineral oil as your lube? Why does everyone use the same base and expect different results? Why do you have to have an oil or grease that's good for "this" application but not for "that".
Look for something that is not like all the others.
U.S. Optics & Smith Enterprises may hold the answer you are looking for.
Mike
I dislike using lube which would attract and hold dust in my trigger area, although out of convenience I do use various stuff like that. I've not yet bought it, but on my next Midway buy list is some moly by Sentry Solutions.
Work2shoot
06-21-11, 21:45
I dislike using lube which would attract and hold dust in my trigger area, although out of convenience I do use various stuff like that. I've not yet bought it, but on my next Midway buy list is some moly by Sentry Solutions.
Where do you gentlemen put the lubricant on the trigger mechanism? I'm somewhat of a newbie to the AR and don't want to put grease where it doesn't belong (ie somewhere where it can attract particulates that do more harm than good). Thank you in advance.
I picked this stuff at my local gun shop. I really works great. As I understand it John Jardine is some kind of 1911 guru and this is his secret sauce.
http://www.jardinescustom.com/accessories.html
Up here in the northwest, I use Marine Wheel Bearing Grease. It's meant for boat trailer wheels and the like so it's meant to put up with salt water, etc.
It's a high temp (550 degree or so down to mins 50 below or something like that) lubricant/protectant (most greases are merely lubricants).
It helps keep the innards of the gun from developing rust during the moist seasons (which is most of the time up here in WA) and keeps my guns running even through some pretty nasty training sessions involving high round counts, lots of mud, dirt, water, etc.
Havn't felt a need to switch to anything else in a couple of years now.
The AeroShell 6 is microgel thickened, mineral oil base lube. Not good for weapons.
Good luck if you use it anywhere else on your weapon.
M
"Microgel", in this case, being a trademarked name for clay-based (bentonite) thickener. That's not an awful choice for guns.. probably better than lithium based grease. Aluminum base is generally beter, though.
SomeOtherGuy
06-22-11, 16:27
"Microgel", in this case, being a trademarked name for clay-based (bentonite) thickener. That's not an awful choice for guns.. probably better than lithium based grease. Aluminum base is generally beter, though.
I'm curious - why? My limited knowledge of grease comes from farm and heavy machinery, where lithium complex is considered good enough for more than 90% of uses, usually with some form of EP additive and most often in a NLGI #2 thickness.
Here is more information that I found on XF7 from 2005
My name is Kevin McClung, and I am the XF7 guy.
My company is called MD Labs.
I am located in Prescott Valley, Az.
MD Labs is a small family business, and everything we make or do is directed towards police and military use. Naturally, a lot of civilians use our products too, especially Mad Dog Knives and now, MD Labs XF7 Weapon Lubricant.
XF7 has undergone extensive field trials over the last three years in Yuma Arizona during summer operation with the USMC, 29 Palms, Iraq, A'stan, and numerous marine environment tests including a lot of tests done in the Virgina Beach area, all prior to our releasing it for sale. It has also been tested well north of the Arctic Circle in winter, on tugboats in San Pedro Harbor ( extreme test: ran on the tug's propeller for four days with no loss), and in the jungles of Panama and Costa Rica.
Rest assured that XF7 has been proven in virtually every possible climate found on this planet.
I originally designed XF7 to be a maritime weapon lubricant expressly for SEAL/SDV Team useage. It does not come off in salt water or fresh water, and makes an incredible corrosion inhibitor.
It also has marvelous properties of heat and extreme cold resistance, so it turned out to have a lot of other non-maritime weapon related applications as well.
The fact that XF7 is nontoxic and cleans up with soap and water makes it a much safer alternative to conventional lubricants on the market today.
XF7 also reduces the necessity of using toxic cleaning solvents on the firearms, and reduces the attendant health risks incurred by exposure to typical weapon solvents and cleaners which usually contain benzene, butylcellusolve and a host of other nasty chemicals.
XF7 will not harm O rings or optical glass and plastics.
An added bonus of using XF7 per the very specific instructions found in each package is the ease of cleanup after shooting.
Fouling and carbon just wipe off of the weapon. Even on problem areas like the inside of the bolt recess on the AR15/M16 bolt carrier.
Many operators using XF7 on the M249 report that the previous nightmare of cleaning the charcoal briquette (aka the gas block) has been alleviated entirely with XF7 use. Now it takes longer to remove and re-install the gasblock than it does to clean it.
Ron Smith's experience with XF7 has been so good that it is now the only lubricant used on Smith Enterprise weapons. I am told it is also used as an assembly lube on US Optics scopes.
Unlike teflon loaded products that deteriorate, combust and produce extremely toxic and very corrosive hydroflourides when exposed to temperatures above 500 F,
XF7 has no corrosive or toxic byproducts.
Unlike oil and grease based products that lose their properties by 400F and begin burning into carbonized scum that welds itself to the weapon, XF7 will not burn onto the surfaces it is intended to protect.
I am deeply gratified with the acceptance of this relatively young product.
XF7 is made in America, by an American family, for use by American troops killing America's enemies.
XF7 was first released for sale in April of 2004 after 18 months of exhaustive field trials by unpaid military and police betasite testers.
XF7 standard packaging is a 15cc syringe packaged with an MSDS and complete instructions for use.
In response to further input from military users in the field, we have some new package types available, the Rifle Pack and the Pocket Pack.
Rifle Packs are 4.5cc each and come two to a package, they are configured to store easily in the grip of the M4 or in the butt trap of the M16 or other rifles.
The larger 15cc Pocket Pack stores easily in the pocket or field cleaning kit.
Both new packages are reclosable, swimmable and dust/dirt/mud resistant when properly sealed.
Last but certainly not least XF7 costs less, ounce per ounce, than many lesser "wonder" lubricants, especially that overpriced teflon loaded crap that looks like oily elephant snot.
XF7 is currently available through distribution from:
http://www.mdtactical.com
http://www.maxpedition.com
http://www.brownells.com
Smith Enterprise in Tempe Az. will soon be set up for military contract distribution. In the meantime, police departmental or platoon and larger military orders can be handled directly through my facility.
Individual military and police orders should be made through the existing dealers shown above.
Here are some links to some XF7 success stories and data on www.tacticalforums.com
Smith Enterprise Formally Endorses XF7
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...c;f=5;t=000734
MD Labs XF7 Weapon Lube
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...=000569#000000
I hope that this post has answered any questions.
Try some XF7, you are going to love it.
XF7 will not melt, run drip, evaporate or migrate due to heat or cold.XF7 remains a virtually perfect oxygen barrier even at 750F in normal atmosphere. XF7 operating temps run down to liquid nitrogen temps(-300F)
That's quite a pitch for Mad Dog. I've been using it for years, as a base coat when I buy new receivers, BCG's, etc. I don't know that it would be ideal for triggers, however. When I first found Weaponshield, the owner told me that using it over the base coat of XF7 would be fine and results should be great, but that the WS would actually migrate under the XF! So I began to use WS more and more. I think the member here who first put me onto that idea was toddackerman, so you can search for that thread if you want. So that confirmed for the the value of not worrying about stripping stuff down to install XF, but rather to continue simply using it on new stuff. Minimize brain damage.
But the thread of course is about the value of all these various lubes for TRIGGER use. I didn't see anything in the XF pitch about that, but I may have missed it, since it was so long... Also, it could be that in the trigger's initial breaking-in period you'd want to lube it up as the surfaces begin to wear in over a thousand rounds or whatever. But for duty use where you'd need a degree of accuracy--or in competition with likewise parameter--especially in dusty conditions, I wouldn't choose to use a dust-attracting lube on my trigger. O.K. sorry about that: more than 2 cents.
That's quite a pitch for Mad Dog.
Just sayin' the product is worth looking into.
But the thread of course is about the value of all these various lubes for TRIGGER use. I didn't see anything in the XF pitch about that, but I may have missed it, since it was so long... it could be that in the trigger's initial breaking-in period you'd want to lube it up as the surfaces begin to wear in over a thousand rounds or whatever.
Sorry if it exceeded your reading threshold for information. Why would it not be of value for a trigger? Does said trigger have parts that touch (friction)? Does it have the ability to be exposed to moisture? I thought I read in that looong post that you didn't read it is good for both of those applications. Also the reason I asked in a previous post, "why buy several products for different applications"?
your Also, But for duty use where you'd need a degree of accuracy--or in competition with likewise parameter--especially in dusty conditions, I wouldn't choose to use a dust-attracting lube on my trigger. O.K. sorry about that: more than 2 cents.
From Smith Enterprises...
Of special note for troop units in Iraq and Afghanistan is the problem of shortened service life of a weapon as a result of the abrasive slurry caused by using conventional hydrocarbon oils/PTFE/Teflon based compounds. Simply put, these compounds attract foreign objects and contaminants creating this abrasive slurry and this slurry then turns into a hard abrasive crust as the oils cook off, leaving carbonized grit welded to the weapon.
Such is not the case with XF-7 merely because it does not attract foreign objects and does not cook off.
When I first found Weaponshield, the owner told me that using it over the base coat of XF7 would be fine and results should be great, but that the WS would actually migrate under the XF! So I began to use WS more and more. I think the member here who first put me onto that idea was toddackerman, so you can search for that thread if you want. So that confirmed for the the value of not worrying about stripping stuff down to install XF, but rather to continue simply using it on new stuff. Minimize brain damage.
I'm not sure I believe those claims of the product migrating under the XF7 but you would have to ask Mad Dog for that answer. I'm sure he could tell you.
As far as cleaning the weapon first before installing the XF7, I see no problem there. Use orderless mineral sprits or Dawn for Dishes & hot water. Then XF7. Just be sure to throughly dry the parts!
Which part damaged your brain?
M
I just don't see the value of disassembling and stripping LPKs every time I wanna re-apply lube. Are you a marketer for XF7? For goodness sake I bought 2 tubes of it and continue to use it! Do you have extensive experience using it? If so, please tell.
Understand my point was that copying the whole of a manufacturer's website might not be the most effective way to disseminate info, especially when it doesn't mention the word "trigger." You could merely say this and be at peace: they claim "it does not attract foreign objects and does not cook off." So now you said it. We're very likely on the same team, so I apologize for not being more tactful and hope we can get back OT.
carbinero,
I went back and re-read your posts in this thread. You seem like the type of guy who buys whatever is the latest or greatest. That is your prerogative. Keep stimulating the economy.
I do not sell the product I recommended. I do use it and see it's benefits (as I have pointed out). I have many different types of weapons but I use one lube. One product that does everything.
That may not suit someone who is constantly in search of the holy grail of lubes. Yep, it didn't say trigger. Better find a new lube! Really?
Here's a question for you. What compelled you to put another lube over the XF7? Why stop at two, why not three or four?
I hope that didn't come off as a slam. I read the post after I posted it and it sounded a little harsh.
I didn't mean to be.
When I need something, I research and buy the best available, at a price I can afford, whether that's Noveske or Toyota. I think anybody here who shoots a lot will tell you they have various lubes and cleaning stuff on their benches, much more than they need, and not as much as they'd like, since better lube, etc. helps us use our guns more effectively, and maybe even more economically. So we're all doing our part to stimulate the economy.
Sentry Solutions Moly is six bucks a tube. I don't know if that's the best stuff for the job, nor do I think that's a lot of money to spend, especially if you have multiple guns and want the best lube for those triggers. The OP is about trigger lubes, so let's go back there. If you wish, you can edit what you write in your posts instead of posting again.
I'm curious - why? My limited knowledge of grease comes from farm and heavy machinery, where lithium complex is considered good enough for more than 90% of uses, usually with some form of EP additive and most often in a NLGI #2 thickness.
Clay and aluminum bases tend to stand up to heat better than lithium based grease. If your application never gets hot, then lithium is excellent bang for the buck. Plus, lithium tends to resist water pretty well.
Clay based grease is popular for aviation applications (i.e. landing gear). Those wheel bearings don't get exposed to a lot of water or dirt, but they get white hot when the brakes come on every time the airplane lands. Clay grease doesn't go runny as it heats up, and unlike metal soap bases, it doesn't get gummy or plastic if you overheat it. The downside to clay bases is that they can absorb a ton of water.
Aluminum based grease is the kind of stuff used in marine bearings. It doesn't soak up water hardly at all. Tends to be slightly better than lithium for high heat, but the downside is it will get rubbery if you do overcook it. Quality lithium with EP additive is probably just as good. I may be biased, as I've been using the same tub of green aluminum boat trailer grease mixed up with moly powder on my guns for ages.
Anyway, vagisil or vanilla frosting will work too if reapplied as necessary. A couple weeks ago (I shit you not) I met a guy who told me he once repacked a wheel bearing with a banana in order to limp home.
When I need something, I research and buy the best available, at a price I can afford, whether that's Noveske or Toyota. I think anybody here who shoots a lot will tell you they have various lubes and cleaning stuff on their benches, much more than they need, and not as much as they'd like, since better lube, etc. helps us use our guns more effectively, and maybe even more economically. So we're all doing our part to stimulate the economy.
Sentry Solutions Moly is six bucks a tube. I don't know if that's the best stuff for the job, nor do I think that's a lot of money to spend, especially if you have multiple guns and want the best lube for those triggers. The OP is about trigger lubes, so let's go back there. If you wish, you can edit what you write in your posts instead of posting again.
Check! Back to the OP. Use XF7 and don't look back. Or you can give bananas a try :rolleyes:
Oh, amid all the theory, I plumb forgot to mention what I actually use: lighter fluid. Switched to that a few years ago and didn't even need to buy it, since I always had a can sitting around. I got the idea from benchrest guys, and it made sense to me.
Also, it could be that in the trigger's initial breaking-in period you'd want to lube it up as the surfaces begin to wear in over a thousand rounds or whatever. But for duty use where you'd need a degree of accuracy--or in competition with likewise parameter--especially in dusty conditions, I wouldn't choose to use a dust-attracting lube on my trigger.
I read Bill G's instructions below which confirms use of his special moly grease for 200-300 round break-in, and recommended afterward, but trigger can be run dry which "will be helpful for dusty environments."
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/Geissele-Installation-Inst-Rev1.pdf
To answer the OP, "Can a good Moly lube/paste from an auto parts place give just as good results?" I don't know. For the amount you'd use on sear surfaces, I think getting a tube of the good stuff would last awhile.
Bill G literally has a college degree in this stuff and has spent his entire professional career along with the GA team building and designing what are now considered by most the world's finest hard use triggers.....unless somebody in this thread can walk the walk that Bill G can, i.e. mechanical engineer that owns a dedicated trigger mfg'ing outfit, than clearly anything but that yellow sexy tube of aeroshell # 6 is just standard internet noise.
Yea, well the guy who makes the XF7 is a rocket scientist literally, who makes hard use knives full time. He makes the XF7. He didn't repackage someone else's spooge.
Internet noise this! :D
Bill G literally has a college degree in this stuff.
What's his college degree in? Lubricants?
Just asking.
Can we please stay OT, please, let's?! The personal stuff is ridiculous. I forgot which gun site, but IIRC one of 'em banned further lube threads: let's not go that way...
Seems like the most interesting direction this thread has gone so far is what's inside, not who made it. Like re: aluminum base and moly. Also the OP of course just wants to know if auto shop moly grease would work as well as gun specific stuff like Geissele's.
I noticed KG-5 specifically for triggers, and it's a teflon-like stuff. They surely know their stuff, but seems to me teflon would build up? Never really thought about it until now, since KG products get such great reports on their whole line: copper cutter, etc.
Former to this thread I would have preferred to try their KG-10 which is liquid based dry moly lube perhaps similar to Sentry Solutions mentioned above (Dri-slide is another). The carrier leaves the moly in place and doesn't hold dust.
But like I said I'm just curious in theory and may just continue to use lighter fluid.
From a purely observational standpoint:
Clay is a form of dirt. Dirt is abrasive by its very nature.
Why deliberately stick an abrasive onto precision parts when not actually doing it as part of a bedding/polishing process?
As to the heat aspect, if you're getting a trigger group so hot that certain base materials in X lube is gumming up or otherwise changing physical properties, chances are more than fair that you wouldn't be able to actually touch that trigger anyway without burning your fingerprint off.
Alternatively, by the time tranferred/convected heat from other parts managed to get a trigger group that hot, said other parts likely would have failed to begin with due to the excessive heat they were absorbing and radiating. :shrug:
FWIW, (and I know no~one 'really' cares LOL) I use Z~moly moly powder applied per the instructions on parts pre~assembly, then a couple drops of 50/50 mix Marvel Mystery Oil and Dextron II ATF post~assembly.
A drop or two of the same but with a smidge of moly powder mixed in as a periodic refresher is all things get after that.
All those items have a lubricity retention and thermal breakdown resistance far beyond that of anything you could hold your fingers to, and in the case of the moly, even reaching close to the actual failure stage of some metals.
A smidge of high temp bearing grease with moly mixed in would certainly be an adiquiate lubricant in my book and again would maintain lubricity well beyond what your flesh could stand and potentially even some of the some materials in the trigger group. Like the springs, which are highly succeptible to heat altering temper.
I just like the fact that I can put in a drop or two exactly where I want with the liquids and know its getting penetration as opposed to a physical clump of grease that may or may not depending on how and when applied.
What specifically gets used is of little import to me personally as long as its not dirt based (if you want to do polishing, use valve lapping compound or jewelers rouge mixed with vasoline. either is about as effective and neither is suitable as a lubricant) or water soluable (putting frosting and vagisil right out of the picture) and wouldn't be bothered if someone found extra virgin olive oil to be thier fave (which I imagine would smell great after a day at the range)
SomeOtherGuy
06-23-11, 14:41
From a purely observational standpoint:
Clay is a form of dirt. Dirt is abrasive by its very nature.
Why deliberately stick an abrasive onto precision parts when not actually doing it as part of a bedding/polishing process?
Uh, not exactly. Yes, clay is one size classification of naturally occurring aggregate material. That doesn't mean it's "dirt" in the sense of something abrasive and harmful. There are many different minerals that can be found in the particle size range that makes them "clay."
By the same logic, all the greases based on metallic salts would be awful and corrosive, because we all know that "salt" is corrosive, right?
I think the logic really boils down to:
1) If you trust Geissele, use the grease he recommends and includes.
2) If you're cheap and like experimenting, pick up a $3 tube of grease at the local hardware/auto parts store, either a standard lithium complex base or a marine formula. I've used both with excellent and very similar results.
3) Buy a high-tech dedicated gun grease like the ones referenced above and be happy. It may cost $15 but will probably last years given the tiny amounts used on guns.
I think the logic really boils down to:
1) If you trust Geissele, use the grease he recommends and includes.
2) If you're cheap and like experimenting, pick up a $3 tube of grease at the local hardware/auto parts store, either a standard lithium complex base or a marine formula. I've used both with excellent and very similar results.
3) Buy a high-tech dedicated gun grease like the ones referenced above and be happy. It may cost $15 but will probably last years given the tiny amounts used on guns.
Yup, exactly that.
I think the logic really boils down to:
1) If you trust Geissele, use the grease he recommends and includes.
2) If you're cheap and like experimenting, pick up a $3 tube of grease at the local hardware/auto parts store, either a standard lithium complex base or a marine formula. I've used both with excellent and very similar results.
3) Buy a high-tech dedicated gun grease like the ones referenced above and be happy. It may cost $15 but will probably last years given the tiny amounts used on guns.
I do trust Giessele. They make a really well thought out product with great quality and attention to detail. It only follows that GA would ship their triggers with fancy grease.
If GA triggers came with anything other than the fanciest Gucci-grease known to man, people on forums like this would be bitching about GA skimping on the grease. I still have a half full little red vial of Geissele's grease laying around somewhere in the shed, but I'm perfectly OK with using boat trailer grease mixed with moly powder. Before you label me as the kind of guy who eats caviar on Wal Mart brand saltines, consider that moly powder is probably more expensive pound-for-pound than even Aeroshell grease.
Thank you. Maybe I was fishing for this validation.
I started as a "Mil Spec, CLP only" as a noob to the AR, then tried everything new and/or better. Finally settled on what worked, for the cheapest and easiest. In fact, when the Hoppes Elite runs out will just clean with Simple Green HD (purple stuff) available at Home Depot. Learned about that when I owned a (cough, cough) AK and it worked great.
Just never been a believer in using the latest, greatest, distilled virgin breast sweat essence peddled for $15 per oz, or to paraphrase Iraqgunz in a recent thread, "use Mobile 1, Vagisil or Duncan Hines vanilla frosting". Just lube it well, don't be to anal-retentive about cleaning it use the savings to buy more ammo and shoot the thing.
just used that for my sig line :lol:
totally agree with you, grease is grease. i worked in a auto parts store for a few years and one thing i learned is that most lubes are tested to the same spec...(Napa 10w30 is from the same barrels as Valvoline, the companies are owned by the same people). that said, i do think that there is a difference when it comes to high heat/pressure areas and use either Mobil 1 or Amsoil.
Just a follow up and a thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
Took the LMT 2-stage out to the range after lubing the pins with some moly auto grease and just a dab on the engagement surfaces. Works great, liked the 2-stage alot. Damn, now I'll have to save $ for a Giessele and compare.
The big surprise was that I gave the same treatment to my stock GI trigger on another gun. Grease on the pins and just a toothpick dab to the sear. It has the Wolff reduced power trigger spring and disconnector installed. Made a huge difference there. Trigger pull couldn't have been more than 5 pounds, no creep or grittty feel. Yet not too light to worry about using it under stress. Huge difference for $10 total - I recommend it highly.
I do have a tube of Aeroshell #6 on order, and will replace the moly when it comes in. But I'm definitely a believer in trigger pin and engagement surface grease now.
Happy 4th to everybody. We would still be drinking hot tea and paying taxes to the queen if it weren't for our brave forefathers bearing arms against tyranny. This board is a testament to that legacy.
Spent three bucks on a tube a white lithium grease a while ago, works just fine. :lol:
Upon recommendation from my gunsmith, I use RyDol (http://www.rydol.com/products/firearms/index.htm). Seems to work well, but it does require periodic reapplication.
Additional info: http://rydol.com/techdetails.html#Colloidal Chemistry
I just bought this new grease, well I bought the bacon it came from and I just got to tell you, it's the best grease ever! Not only does my trigger run smoother it smells better than any of your triggers.
I will be applying it to all my guns now!
:suicide2:
I hear whale oil was all the rage 150 years ago.
On a more serious note: has anyone tested olive oil as a semi-auto lubricant? I mean, has anyone done any published testing? Is there anything in olive oil that would be deleterious to function, such as salts? Would it stand up to the heat encountered in an AR?
An Undocumented Worker
07-03-11, 11:50
I hear whale oil was all the rage 150 years ago.
On a more serious note: has anyone tested olive oil as a semi-auto lubricant? I mean, has anyone done any published testing? Is there anything in olive oil that would be deleterious to function, such as salts? Would it stand up to the heat encountered in an AR?
Surely you jest.:jester:
You could fry bacon on the barrel of an AR. and olive oil is no good for frying stuff.
I am going to try the olive oil with some moly and see how that works. Thanks for the tip. BTW are you using EVOO?
Do not mix moly with the bacon grease. It takes the aroma away which is half the benefit of the bacon grease!
Troglodyte
07-04-11, 07:34
I am a No-Voodoo KISS guy also . .
As far as the AR goes . . I have to agree with a previous poster who said that "Grease is Grease" . . hell I used Peanut Oil once on an AR several years ago to prove this point, I put over 1000 rounds through that rifle using just Peanut Oil for a lube . . it smelled nice to . . cycled flawlessly . . but then I don't do mag dumps either.:D
I use good old Brake Caliper Grease from my local Napa Auto Parts store. Been using it for over 20 years in Garands, M1As and ARs . . literally 10s of thousands of rounds.
Can you think of a more punishing application for grease than brake calipers?
Use of whale oil on weapons is no joke. It was marketed as Nyoil (or similar name) circa late 1960's.
I still remember a gunsmith telling Papa to use it on his Browning A-5 shotgun.
I am a No-Voodoo KISS guy also . .
As far as the AR goes . . I have to agree with a previous poster who said that "Grease is Grease" . . hell I used Peanut Oil once on an AR several years ago to prove this point, I put over 1000 rounds through that rifle using just Peanut Oil for a lube . . it smelled nice to . . cycled flawlessly . . but then I don't do mag dumps either.:D
I use good old Brake Caliper Grease from my local Napa Auto Parts store. Been using it for over 20 years in Garands, M1As and ARs . . literally 10s of thousands of rounds.
Can you think of a more punishing application for grease than brake calipers?
Main landing gear wheel bearings on a C5 Galaxy.
I agree, for AR triggers, grease is grease until it gets old & hardened. If it does that, you're definitely not shooting enough
Troglodyte
07-04-11, 14:12
Main landing gear wheel bearings on a C5 Galaxy.
ya got me there MistWolf . . :D:D:D and I used to work on C5s
DirectDrive
07-04-11, 14:52
For builders that want to comply with milspec for the barrel nut, it's AeroShell 33MS. Would also work for the trigger.
6 is mineral based and 33MS is synthetic fortified with moly.
http://www.qclubricants.com/aeroshell/aeroshell_greases.htm
http://www.skygeek.com/grease.html
It's 10 bucks to ship a tube....a local aircraft parts supplier might be an option.
DD
Who has been in a C5 at Westover.....amazing piece of equipment with a unique sound signature, I might add.
I hear whale oil was all the rage 150 years ago.
On a more serious note: has anyone tested olive oil as a semi-auto lubricant? I mean, has anyone done any published testing? Is there anything in olive oil that would be deleterious to function, such as salts? Would it stand up to the heat encountered in an AR?
If I was going to go with a food based oil, I would go with coconut oil. It handles the high heats much better then virtually any other food oil out there without breaking down and losing it's properties. It's also one of the healthiest natural oils you can put in your body so when shooting suppressed and you get that blowback and a little bit gets in your mouth, or vaporized and breathed in, it won't hurt you either!
Not only that but if I used it, my AR would smell delicious every time I fired it. Remind me of mommas coconut macaroon cookies she used to make.......[Homer Simpson drool]
polydeuces
07-06-11, 09:16
You all are overlooking an essential spec:
The magic word is "organic".
Once you go organic, everything gets better.
You might think differently about that if you saw the fools backing into phone poles multiple times over, parking in fire lanes and popping out into 5 lane wide traffic without stopping or looking after they become regular shoppers at the organic stuff hippie store down the street.
You say organic is good, I say granola makes you stupid....
polydeuces
07-06-11, 10:12
Where I live we call those kind of drivers "snowbirds".....Usually with Canadian license plates.
Whining about how much better everything in "Canada, Eh", is, and leaving shit for tips. Gotta love them.
But I digress....
Where I live we call those kind of drivers "snowbirds".....Usually with Canadian license plates.
Whining about how much better everything in "Canada, Eh", is, and leaving shit for tips. Gotta love them.
But I digress....
Those are from Québec, they don't know how to drive (in fact I believe the worst drivers in north america are found right here in Québec) and they don't even consider themselves Canadians.
Let's get back on track.
I've been using Aeroshell 22 lately. It's plentiful where I work and, seems to be an analog to Aeroshell 6 except, it's synthetic based, good from-85 to 400 deg. F. and more water resistant.. I may give Bill G. an e-mail to see what he thinks of it.;)
spring1271
07-07-11, 21:26
Heres a link for a small tube of the mobile grease with applicators.... http://www.garandgear.com/component/virtuemart/browse/33-springs-and-things?TreeId=3&sef=hc
Exiledviking
07-08-11, 01:00
I have access to Aeroshell 7. Anyone know if it is OK to use on the trigger?
i mix my own... oil and grease
right now my "base" grease is "super lube"
http://shop.sgtooling.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=49
then i mix is extra teflon powder, and HBN "i have a pound bucket for coating bullets"
i do the same for oil
DirectDrive
07-10-11, 02:13
I have access to Aeroshell 7. Anyone know if it is OK to use on the trigger?
http://www.qclubricants.com/aeroshell/aeroshell_greases.htm
Looks like it has the temperature range covered :p
And by its applications, it's resistant to being scrubbed out, although it's not officially EP (extreme pressure) rated.
Compared to keeping a high speed bearing alive, lubing a slide mechanism like a trigger is a simple task for a grease.
Many different types of greases would work with an EP type grease theoretically staying in place longer.
Work2shoot
07-10-11, 18:45
I've read this thread, but how often and where do you actually grease the trigger? Sorry for the noob question.
Have used all kinds of greases on triggers/sears over the years most recently settled on a moly paste from a gunsmith. Gave the smoothest and lightest pull compared to the rest. Just last week got some Frog Lube which i applied after cleaning to a glock 27 and my carbine, after reading good reports on m4c. After returning from range yesterday, just for grins, cleaned and lubed trigger and hammer on carbine. Checked with trigger pull scale- weight dropped a half pound. Will see if this lasts but that is some slippery stuff.
Mark
SomeOtherGuy
07-12-11, 14:32
I've read this thread, but how often and where do you actually grease the trigger? Sorry for the noob question.
If you have a Geissele, the grease points are detailed in the trigger instruction book, which you can also download here:
http://www.geissele.com/
If you have a GI type trigger, the main point to lubricate would be the trigger/hammer joint at the front of the trigger piece. It also wouldn't hurt to lubricate the disconnector/hammer hook area but that won't affect feel. The trigger/hammer pins should also be lubricated where they meet the trigger or hammer, but that's most easily done with oil at the junction, not grease.
look at conklin rhino grease ,it works great for weapons ...yes you can mix with clp too for thinner use ...m-1 /m-14 bolt lugs etc springs etc
Been down the road, and ended where I started. Oil is... Grease is...
1. Find oil/grease
2. Apply oil/grease
3. Fire the weapon till barrel glows red
4. Repeat starting at step 1
This is a rabbit hole guys. Spent a lot of time I could have been shooting playing oil chemist, with no new news. Some work better than others, but not by much. Follow above directions and go have fun.
By the way, I liked the banana in the axel to limp home with story. Improvise, adapt and overcome
DirectDrive
07-27-11, 22:32
Improvise, adapt, overcome and keep it lubed.
Fixed it for ya.
Upon recommendation from my gunsmith, I use RyDol (http://www.rydol.com/products/firearms/index.htm). Seems to work well, but it does require periodic reapplication.
Additional info: http://rydol.com/techdetails.html#Colloidal Chemistry
Premium Grade PTFE and BORON NITRIDE <---Maybe be bad news !!
i'm surprised no one has mentioned the NECO MOLYSLIDE, as this stuff has been around for years. frank white, of CLE turned me on to it years ago. it works for a lot of the camp perry crowd.
Premium Grade PTFE and BORON NITRIDE <---Maybe be bad news !!
It's not the rydol, it's the midol that needs more periodic application. Those times are bad news, no maybe about it.
I'm apologizing in advance mods. Just still don't get the oil/grease deal. But maybe there will be innovation somewhere from all this lube crap that takes it to the next level. Till then I'm waiting with bells on.
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