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sgtjosh
07-27-11, 13:23
Being that Froglube is not petroleum based, can it contaminate primers?

QuietShootr
07-27-11, 13:40
Unknown. It NOT being petroleum based would not rule that out, though.

I will tell you this - the spray Froglube will **** you up if you spray much of it in an enclosed space. That's what I use on my Solothurn, and it damn near killed me when I sprayed it off in an enclosed basement. I thought I was going to cough up a lung.

Skang
07-27-11, 16:21
I don't think they make one with spray bottle or can.

I'd stick with Weapon Shield. Much cheaper and gets the job done.

Dennis
07-27-11, 16:29
Unknown. It NOT being petroleum based would not rule that out, though.

I will tell you this - the spray Froglube will **** you up if you spray much of it in an enclosed space. That's what I use on my Solothurn, and it damn near killed me when I sprayed it off in an enclosed basement. I thought I was going to cough up a lung.

Are you talking about this Frog Lube? There is no spray and if there was I doubt it would do anything more than leave a pleasant minty smell in your basement.

http://www.froglube.com

To the OP, are you asking if primers are impervious to Froglube since it isn't a penetrating oil? Froglube is usually in paste form and if you are firing and it's wet then I wouldn't think much could get on the primers for any length of time anyways. I don't see any issues unless you are wanting to soak each round in liquid Froglube...:p

Dennis.

GermanSynergy
07-27-11, 16:44
Unknown. It NOT being petroleum based would not rule that out, though.

I will tell you this - the spray Froglube will **** you up if you spray much of it in an enclosed space. That's what I use on my Solothurn, and it damn near killed me when I sprayed it off in an enclosed basement. I thought I was going to cough up a lung.

:confused:

Froglube is non toxic and smells like mint Lifesavers.

double-d
07-27-11, 17:09
If the primers are sealed, couldn't do any more harm than say H2O. Not sure what the concern is ??????

mikeahe
07-27-11, 17:10
I use froglube on handguns & long guns. I haven't tried it on primers yet.

Iraqgunz
07-27-11, 18:20
I think the point the OP is trying to make is what effect it would have on ammunition in magazines etc... should the lube run and get on the ammo and primers.

sgtjosh
07-27-11, 21:11
I think the point the OP is trying to make is what effect it would have on ammunition in magazines etc... should the lube run and get on the ammo and primers.

Thank you...you get it.

tb-av
07-27-11, 21:31
4th paragraph down.

http://www.froglube.com/docs/Police-One%20Article%2012-2010.pdf

QuietShootr
07-27-11, 22:04
I was wrong - it's not Frog Lube, it's Bullfrog. THAT stuff will suck the wind out of your lungs.

thehun
07-27-11, 23:58
I have ran about 250 rnds with froglube so far...no issue...but just a butter smooth clean up...it resist fouling from what I can tell from the most part...its pretty awesome how it works....when its below ambient temp...your gun doesnt look like its lubricated much...put ten rounds and the metal becomes "wet" and lubricated again....come home....the lube is soaked back into the metal...its pretty awesome

UDT
07-28-11, 09:09
JMO, but so far in the past 2 to 3 months F/L has been one of the best products that I have used. But, time will tell the whole story.

markm
07-28-11, 10:32
I use froglube on handguns & long guns. I haven't tried it on primers yet.

Yeah... My primers seat just fine without lube! :p

Seriously though... I wouldn't worry about it if you haven't had other lubes create problems for your primers.

Littlelebowski
07-28-11, 10:38
There's tests online (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm) where folks soaked primers in different solvents and they still worked. Seems like just another gun myth.

markm
07-28-11, 10:45
There's tests online (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm) where folks soaked primers in different solvents and they still worked. Seems like just another gun myth.

I've seen those... but I've also seen a guy who thought he needed to lube his mag springs shoot his pistol ammo with 75% or so failure rate.

This was years back, and I don't know what he was lubing with or what the ammo was, but he definitely ruined the primers with his nonsense.

QuietShootr
07-28-11, 11:05
I've seen those... but I've also seen a guy who thought he needed to lube his mag springs shoot his pistol ammo with 75% or so failure rate.

This was years back, and I don't know what he was lubing with or what the ammo was, but he definitely ruined the primers with his nonsense.

Yup. WD40 will kill primers, as will any penetrating oil like Kroil or PB Blaster.

tvfreakarms
11-04-11, 04:44
I was going to start a new thread about froglube but i'm glad i used the search:dance3:.

Anyways how well do you guys like it? Is it as good as their website states?

Any of you guys been using it for a while?

I know on the website in the video section, that guy hoffner shot it for 7 months strait w/o cleaning his glock and supposedly it was working great. But they didn't do a exactly a close up on the pistol.

Just curious if it's worth a try on my glock gen4 and my pof ar15.

sgtjosh
11-04-11, 15:29
I was going to start a new thread about froglube but i'm glad i used the search:dance3:.

Anyways how well do you guys like it? Is it as good as their website states?

Any of you guys been using it for a while?

I know on the website in the video section, that guy hoffner shot it for 7 months strait w/o cleaning his glock and supposedly it was working great. But they didn't do a exactly a close up on the pistol.

Just curious if it's worth a try on my glock gen4 and my pof ar15.

I have had such a good experience, that I use it on my work and personal carbine.

Pro:
-Lubricates well...that's the point right?
-Cleanup is a wipe down and reapplication...easy.
-Is a semi-solid paste until firing begins, then turns into a liquid. During daily carry, the lube is not messy. It stays put when gun is cold.
-Does not smell bad

Cons:
-It's not cheap.

tvfreakarms
11-05-11, 03:19
When you do start firing does it start to drip? Or sometime splatter during firing?

Thanks.


I have had such a good experience, that I use it on my work and personal carbine.

Pro:
-Lubricates well...that's the point right?
-Cleanup is a wipe down and reapplication...easy.
-Is a semi-solid paste until firing begins, then turns into a liquid. During daily carry, the lube is not messy. It stays put when gun is cold.
-Does not smell bad

Cons:
-It's not cheap.

Skang
11-05-11, 03:54
When you do start firing does it start to drip? Or sometime splatter during firing?

Thanks.

I am guessing it just become mild thick liquid, not thin liquid like Wd-40.

iGun
11-05-11, 06:53
There's tests online (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm) where folks soaked primers in different solvents and they still worked. Seems like just another gun myth.

Its not a myth. I did a test once where I put various pistol rounds in a baggie with some Weaponshield (same as FP-10). A month later, the primers worked but there was incomplete ignition in some rounds.

Littlelebowski
11-05-11, 08:20
Its not a myth. I did a test once where I put various pistol rounds in a baggie with some Weaponshield (same as FP-10). A month later, the primers worked but there was incomplete ignition in some rounds.

I'll remember that for the next time I contemplate storing lube in a bag with loose rounds.

SIMBA-LEE
11-05-11, 10:31
Yup. WD40 will kill primers, as will any penetrating oil like Kroil or PB Blaster.

A lazy officer on my old South Florida department (years ago) would spray his loaded revolver with WD40 before work every day to keep it from rusting. He eventually was attacked by a knife-wielding bad guy, drew his revolver and click, click, click, click, click, click! All the rounds were dead. I don't remember if it was the powder or primers or both that were contaminated and deactivated by the WD40, but the officer had to use his S&W as a club to save himself.

I use ForgLube and like it, but haven't dunked any primers in it yet.

shua713
11-05-11, 10:47
I started a few months ago using frog lube on just one 1911, I am straight up amazed at the results. I will be using it on all of my guns when I get some time off around the holidays. It has worked exactly as descibed, and my wife dosen't bitch about the smell.

markm
11-07-11, 13:00
I finally tried some of this stuff. It's been sitting on my bench for a while. My bolt was all dry and nasty from suppressed fire, so I hit it up with froglube.

The stuff has some pretty good staying power.

iGun
11-07-11, 15:01
Sigh. I just drank the Koolaid and ordered some Froglube. I don't know if it works better than other lubes but this stuff sure is viral.

markm
11-07-11, 15:04
Sigh. I just drank the Koolaid and ordered some Froglube. I don't know if it works better than other lubes but this stuff sure is viral.

I haven't used it long enough to say that it's better. But it ran well with a lot of supressed shooting in my gun yesterday.

Preliator
11-07-11, 15:05
iGun, I had the finger on the trigger and safety off on Sunday - I managed to get the credit card back on 'safe' in time. But I will be looking forward to hearing more about this stuff - it does seem to be taking the lube world by storm.

a0cake
11-07-11, 15:08
Sigh. I just drank the Koolaid and ordered some Froglube. I don't know if it works better than other lubes but this stuff sure is viral.

It's good stuff. Just make sure you thoroughly strip any other residue (carbon, lubricants, grease, etc) on the parts where Frog Lube will be applied. Frog Lube needs to be the only lubricant in play. A hair dryer also does wonders to work the FL into the metal. Good luck and enjoy the minty smell.

iGun
11-07-11, 15:11
Cake--thanks. Which lube do I use where? (wait that doesn't sound good...) Liquid or paste on the BCG?

a0cake
11-07-11, 15:20
Cake--thanks. Which lube do I use where? (wait that doesn't sound good...) Liquid or paste on the BCG?

I use a bit of paste on the bolt cam pin and liquid everywhere else. I also use the paste on the engagement surfaces on my Geissele triggers.

sgtjosh
11-07-11, 17:09
Cake--thanks. Which lube do I use where? (wait that doesn't sound good...) Liquid or paste on the BCG?

I don't know that it matters. The paste turns to a liquid on a warm gun during firing and turns back to paste when it cools.

I am not a serial AR-15 cleaner. I keep my duty pistol very clean, but my AR will run dirty as long as it is wet. The best thing about Frog Lube is that clean up is simply a wipe down with a cloth and a reapplication of Frog Lube...too easy.

Col_Crocs
11-07-11, 19:46
I agree with sgtjosh. The other thing about the paste is that it floats carbon and keeps it contained in the paste. Wiping off is very easy but if you find yourself getting obsessive or just want to reach a tight nook, just heat it to let the remaining paste drip out and/or clean with the liquid.

NorthDakota
11-17-11, 10:05
Any cold weather experience by Frog Lube users? By cold I mean -20 to -40F here in the tundra. Just wondering if Mr. Yote would be laughing at me as the paste inhibits function.....

ra2bach
11-17-11, 12:33
...Weaponshield (same as FP-10)...

not the same...

markm
11-17-11, 12:58
I'm going to trinkle some of this French stuff into the AR I take out this Saturday. Give it another whirl as they say in France!

Iraqgunz
11-17-11, 15:29
"Who Dares Wins!" A smart person would buy a small sample and try it out before messing with the coyote.


Any cold weather experience by Frog Lube users? By cold I mean -20 to -40F here in the tundra. Just wondering if Mr. Yote would be laughing at me as the paste inhibits function.....

Paladin801
11-20-11, 01:17
As far as using the paste. If you follow the instructions, using the paste to season the part lubed, it liquifies when applied to the metal when the metal is warmed as instructed. Let is set for about an hour, then wipe off excess. The liquid will get into nooks and crannies easier, but if done right, the paste will melt into wherever you want it to using a small brush. I use both and really am sold on it. It's not a gimmick IMHO but I pray we don't have zero degree weather down here in the South. No reports here on zero degree performance.

VIP3R 237
11-20-11, 01:52
"Who Dares Wins!" A smart person would buy a small sample and try it out before messing with the coyote.

Working with some SAS guys lately?

DemonRat
11-20-11, 03:51
I have been using frog lube for about a month now and have shot 1500 rounds out of my AR. I Have about 1200 rounds thru the 10/22. I got the small bottle 1 oz size just to try it out on the recommendation of several people on this site. Here's my take on it.
Pro's
1) My wife likes to clean our firearms now.
2) Smells Minty Fresh.
3) Followed the directions for applying. I didn't have sunlight when I did the first application so I used my oven to heat it up the parts to a manageable temperature. Set the oven to 100 degree's and left door open for 5 minutes. Then I applied it. I did notice that after applying it and the parts cooled off it it wasn't there any more. The patch i used to get the extra out of the barrel was almost clean had just a little bit on it maybe a drop if that.
4) Cleaning is much easier and faster now that I have been using FL. I like it a lot better then the old way I was cleaning the firearms I own. The wife hated the smells and Simple Green.

Con's
1) 7 bucks for 1 ounce. Not including shipping. No local shop had it.
2) Why wasn't this out years ago.
3) The wife wants to go shooting more now.:D

I got mine online from Clips n Stuff down in Albany,OR as you cant buy direct from the FL website.

Iraqgunz
11-20-11, 04:17
Call of Duty- MW3 :D


Working with some SAS guys lately?

Iraqgunz
11-20-11, 04:18
You can get it from Brownells now and if you contact FrogLube they will assist you with placing an order via their person on the west coast.


I have been using frog lube for about a month now and have shot 1500 rounds out of my AR. I Have about 1200 rounds thru the 10/22. I got the small bottle 1 oz size just to try it out on the recommendation of several people on this site. Here's my take on it.
Pro's
1) My wife likes to clean our firearms now.
2) Smells Minty Fresh.
3) Followed the directions for applying. I didn't have sunlight when I did the first application so I used my oven to heat it up the parts to a manageable temperature. Set the oven to 100 degree's and left door open for 5 minutes. Then I applied it. I did notice that after applying it and the parts cooled off it it wasn't there any more. The patch i used to get the extra out of the barrel was almost clean had just a little bit on it maybe a drop if that.
4) Cleaning is much easier and faster now that I have been using FL. I like it a lot better then the old way I was cleaning the firearms I own. The wife hated the smells and Simple Green.

Con's
1) 7 bucks for 1 ounce. Not including shipping. No local shop had it.
2) Why wasn't this out years ago.
3) The wife wants to go shooting more now.:D

I got mine online from Clips n Stuff down in Albany,OR as you cant buy direct from the FL website.

AZ-Renegade
11-20-11, 10:35
I have been using Froglube for the past three months on my duty weapons and I am impressed with the performance. Easier clean-up and less dust/debris accumulation in the field.

At my request, my local gunshop of choice now sells Froglube.

krichbaum
11-21-11, 18:19
I bought some of this stuff to try out, based on all the great reviews. One thing I can say...it smells great. I'm a little worried about the incompatibility with petroleum based lubes (what do you do in a pinch if the Froglube isn't handy?). I'll try it out on one carbine and go from there.

I don't know if it's ok to mention this, but I got the kit from Botach (they've had some good deals and have came through for me lately).

Dennis
11-21-11, 18:48
I'm a little worried about the incompatibility with petroleum based lubes

I bought a bunch of tiny bottles and tubs and filled them with FrogLube CLP and paste and now I have some in each of my range bags, weapon bags, go bags, chest rigs, etc... In many cases, they are next to tiny bottles of regular oil as well, just in case... :)

Dennis.

Jake'sDad
11-21-11, 19:24
I bought a bunch of tiny bottles and tubs and filled them with FrogLube CLP and paste and now I have some in each of my range bags, weapon bags, go bags, chest rigs, etc... In many cases, they are next to tiny bottles of regular oil as well, just in case... :)

Dennis.

That's a good idea. I looked, and it didn't appear Froglube makes a tiny size that would work in MOE pistol grip, etc. I wonder if an old M1 carbine oiler would be too long to fit?

Dennis
11-21-11, 19:44
That's a good idea. I looked, and it didn't appear Froglube makes a tiny size that would work in MOE pistol grip, etc. I wonder if an old M1 carbine oiler would be too long to fit?

It makes much more sense to buy the huge size and then portion it out yourself. Cheaper and you get to decide the size. REI and the Container Store have tons of various sized vials and tubs for relatively cheap. I like re-purposing all my used mini contact drops bottles by boring out the hole a bit.

Dennis.

Littlelebowski
11-21-11, 19:48
It will work fine with other lubes. Not like it's going to explode your weapon on contact with other lubes.....

Jake'sDad
11-21-11, 20:18
It makes much more sense to buy the huge size and then portion it out yourself. Cheaper and you get to decide the size. REI and the Container Store have tons of various sized vials and tubs for relatively cheap. I like re-purposing all my used mini contact drops bottles by boring out the hole a bit.

Dennis.

Good suggestion, I'll pick some small vials up.

So far so good, the couple of guns I've cleaned and "treated" with the Froglube seem pretty slick, and being able to clean them in the house is quite a treat. Looking forward to some range time and how they clean up again afterward.

eternal24k
11-21-11, 23:22
I hate reading all the praise for frog lube, I have a ways to go before I exhaust my current lube supply

Dennis
11-22-11, 00:14
I hate reading all the praise for frog lube, I have a ways to go before I exhaust my current lube supply

Whenever I get a new lube, I call the old supply "redundant backup".

Dennis.

Jsop
11-22-11, 00:36
It will work fine with other lubes. Not like it's going to explode your weapon on contact with other lubes.....

Maybe ive understood it wrong but isn't the process for this stuff stripping old oil off, treating, and then regularly using froglube?
Stripping the old stuff off because it reacts in some form with petroleum based lubes? Obviously it wont explode but what does happen?

Also people are just doing a wipe down as a cleaning. Can you do the usual breakfree drops on a AP brush and scrub with it?

sgtjosh
11-22-11, 01:01
It will work fine with other lubes. Not like it's going to explode your weapon on contact with other lubes.....


Maybe ive understood it wrong but isn't the process for this stuff stripping old oil off, treating, and then regularly using froglube?
Stripping the old stuff off because it reacts in some form with petroleum based lubes? Obviously it wont explode but what does happen?

Frog lube will break down whatever petroleum based lube is left on the rifle.

ucrt
11-22-11, 01:06
Maybe ive understood it wrong but isn't the process for this stuff stripping old oil off, treating, and then regularly using froglube?
Stripping the old stuff off because it reacts in some form with petroleum based lubes? Obviously it wont explode but what does happen?

Also people are just doing a wipe down as a cleaning. Can you do the usual breakfree drops on a AP brush and scrub with it?

==========================================

From what I understand, old oils and greases serve as a barrier between FL and the base metal preventing FL from bonding to the metal. Without FL making "good" contact and bonding with the metal, you don't get all of its benefits of lubricity, protection, etc.

.

Col_Crocs
11-22-11, 02:46
Maybe ive understood it wrong but isn't the process for this stuff stripping old oil off, treating, and then regularly using froglube?
Stripping the old stuff off because it reacts in some form with petroleum based lubes? Obviously it wont explode but what does happen?

Also people are just doing a wipe down as a cleaning. Can you do the usual breakfree drops on a AP brush and scrub with it?

YOu can brush with FL instead of CLP. It's actually a pretty good cleaner.

Jsop
11-22-11, 03:30
So it sounds like its worth the price tag. There are some good deals on amazon.
So what do you think initial treatment with paste and then regular maintenance/lube with the liquid?

Jsop
11-22-11, 03:33
1 more thought... anyone know if it stains fabrics?
As in don't clean/apply on the couch in the living room...:confused:

Iraqgunz
11-22-11, 04:14
I squirted a quarter size blob on a shirt and then washed it. I couldn't find the stain. I can find all of the stains from using CLP/Slip2000/WeaponShield/Militec, etc...


1 more thought... anyone know if it stains fabrics?
As in don't clean/apply on the couch in the living room...:confused:

Skang
11-22-11, 04:16
I can find all of the stains from using WeaponShield

I was little upset when it happened. :(

Will try Frog when I am out of WS.

BTW, what was the website for frog lube official online store?

jmart
11-22-11, 08:33
I was little upset when it happened. :(

Will try Frog when I am out of WS.

BTW, what was the website for frog lube official online store?


www.guessreallyhard.com

WS6
11-22-11, 08:39
1 more thought... anyone know if it stains fabrics?
As in don't clean/apply on the couch in the living room...:confused:

Are you that guy from TOS with the blue sofa?:p

I don't know about the answer to your question, but I have some Frog Lube I bought and plan on doing a rust test today. Water with a ton of salt in it. Comparing it to CLP, which beat out RIG+P grease, Weapon Shield, RemOil (horrible!), Militec 1 (pure crap), and FP-10 in the last test I did by a long shot. Going to see how it compares.

Jsop
11-22-11, 09:22
Are you that guy from TOS with the blue sofa?:p


No, thats not me. I don't really frequent other sites. I stick to this one bc I know whats said around here is usually a final answer.

I asked because I bought a new sofa a couple months ago and was just casually cleaning my 870 and placed the bottle of breakfree down beside me. I looked back a few min later and realized I had a huuuuge stain because the bottle was open. I knew better :suicide:

That and any Marine whos sacrificed a skivvy shirt to weapons maintenance knows no matter what you soak that thing in... it'll never be the same.

Dachs
11-22-11, 09:32
:
I'll remember that for the next time I contemplate storing lube in a bag with loose rounds.

hahahahahaha :D

jmart
11-22-11, 09:44
:

hahahahahaha :D

That's right up there with guys who rate protectants by how well they work when storing their weapons in salt spray lockers.

iGun
11-22-11, 13:10
That's right up there with guys who rate protectants by how well they work when storing their weapons in salt spray lockers.

Ok. I'll take the bait :-). Ammo in a bag with oil does sound funny.

I was testing whether prolonged exposure could cause problems. I lube heavily in my 1911s and in a carry gun it's not hard to imagine how lube could creep into the breech and chamber.

FL seems like a good product because it is semisolid at room temp.

jmart
11-22-11, 19:37
Ok. I'll take the bait :-). Ammo in a bag with oil does sound funny.

I was testing whether prolonged exposure could cause problems. I lube heavily in my 1911s and in a carry gun it's not hard to imagine how lube could creep into the breech and chamber.

FL seems like a good product because it is semisolid at room temp.

It's all good. Now that you've expalined teh rationale for the tests, I get it. I'm just thinking that if you're lubing so much to make your rounds inert, you're lubing too much.

I have no dog in this Froglube hunt, by all anecdotes from those who've tried it, it seems to be well respected.

I just always have problems with folks that spray whatever CLP-coated mild steel with salt water and then proclaim to declare certain lubes/preservatives as inadequate based on those results. They may be useful for comparative purposes between products, but nobody subjects their weapons to such torture tests, so why folks get wrapped up in these backyard tests always makes me wonder. My point is there are plenty of proven lubes/preservatives out there on the market. Just use as directed and I'm betting any will work just fine.

WS6
11-22-11, 19:51
That's right up there with guys who rate protectants by how well they work when storing their weapons in salt spray lockers.

Which is right up there with guys who complain that CLP isn't a good enough lubricant. :rolleyes:


FWIW, CLP destroyed Frog Lube in corrosion prevention in my test, severe as it was. Now I am going to test it vs. nothing at all and see how it compares. Rem Oil and Militec One were equal to no protection at all in my last test.

thei3ug
11-23-11, 09:59
I may end up getting this if only to ensure the wife keeps cleaning her rifle when she's pregnant. I'm usually wary of new wonder products, being bitten too many times, but the MSDS seems good to me.

I'd still like to see corrosion tests. Brother in NC lives across the street from the beach. His things sit for a year untouched by his wife if he's not around to watch 'em.

Iraqgunz
11-24-11, 04:23
CLP is still shitty lube. I live in the desert so corrosion isn't an issue for me. YMMV


Which is right up there with guys who complain that CLP isn't a good enough lubricant. :rolleyes:


FWIW, CLP destroyed Frog Lube in corrosion prevention in my test, severe as it was. Now I am going to test it vs. nothing at all and see how it compares. Rem Oil and Militec One were equal to no protection at all in my last test.

WS6
11-24-11, 05:18
I may end up getting this if only to ensure the wife keeps cleaning her rifle when she's pregnant. I'm usually wary of new wonder products, being bitten too many times, but the MSDS seems good to me.

I'd still like to see corrosion tests. Brother in NC lives across the street from the beach. His things sit for a year untouched by his wife if he's not around to watch 'em.

Well, I did a corrosion test.
http://i40.tinypic.com/fvuybl.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/11gj1if.jpg
(Left to Right: T-9, WD-40,CLP, Froglube, FP-10,Control, Astroglide,LaRue MG Lube, RIG+P)
http://i40.tinypic.com/j6u8et.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/vopx74.jpg
Purpose: To compare common lubricant protection from oxidation in less than ideal environments.

After 25 hours, each nail rotated to show maximum corrosion:
http://i44.tinypic.com/q2ro.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/34h9qub.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/35n7yut.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/15n3wck.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/97vbwi.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2a98w8h.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/dljb54.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2irnclx.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/k532mw.jpg

Method: Each nail was first sanded to remove any protectant. Lubricant was then applied to the nail and wiped off similar to how one would oil down a barrel on a rifle/slide on a pistol after a day's carry. Salt-water was then poured over the paper towel that the nail was wrapped in. The concentration is unimportant for this test as it is a comparison test, not an environmental test. The same solution was used with each nail/paper towel.

Potentials for errant results: Hands were washed between each nail, but some cross-contamination could still have occurred. The salt solution was stirred regularly, but could have become more concentrate toward the end. There is potential for one of my cats to jump onto the counter top and screw it all to hell.

DJK
11-24-11, 05:48
Astroglide for corrosion protection? I don't think I want to know!!:D

montanadave
11-24-11, 06:06
I've found that Astroglide does provide good lubrication with my piston parts under rapid cycling in saline environments. Corrosion protection has not been an issue, as my exposure times are generally limited and I do rinse or shower after exposure to harsh environmental conditions. I do have some concerns as there have been multiple incidents in which Astroglide's use was associated with accidental (although others have insisted they were negligent) discharges.

But you say you're using it on firearms, eh?

WS6
11-24-11, 06:10
I've found that Astroglide does provide good lubrication with my piston parts under rapid cycling in saline environments. Corrosion protection has not been an issue, as my exposure times are generally limited and I do rinse or shower after exposure to harsh environmental conditions. I do have some concerns as there have been multiple incidents in which Astroglide's use was associated with accidental (although others have insisted they were negligent) discharges.

But you say you're using it on firearms, eh?

No, only use Astroglide on my gun.

An Undocumented Worker
11-24-11, 11:57
I would like to see froglube tested again after it has been heat cycled a few times to let it "season" the metal as they say it is supposed to.

WS6
11-24-11, 13:04
I would like to see froglube tested again after it has been heat cycled a few times to let it "season" the metal as they say it is supposed to.

I tried that monkeybusiness with Militec-1 and it didn't matter one bit. Gave it a good treatment in the oven for Militec's exact recommendation and it made no difference what-so-ever. If it cannot form a proper barrier before a heat cycle, I doubt it will afterward. However, if you really want the test, I will do it tonight. IT rusted hard and fast, so it won't take long.

Since I am doing this for you...

Tell me what oven temp, how long, etc. you want this done for.

Jake'sDad
11-24-11, 13:13
Thanks for posting that WS6. Something to consider for sure.

An Undocumented Worker
11-24-11, 16:12
I tried that monkeybusiness with Militec-1 and it didn't matter one bit. Gave it a good treatment in the oven for Militec's exact recommendation and it made no difference what-so-ever. If it cannot form a proper barrier before a heat cycle, I doubt it will afterward. However, if you really want the test, I will do it tonight. IT rusted hard and fast, so it won't take long.

Since I am doing this for you...

Tell me what oven temp, how long, etc. you want this done for.

Well I was thinking 200 degrees till it looks dry, then reapply, then heatcycle one more time, and make a light coat of the stuff, wipe off with a dry cloth and then test. Whether that makes any difference or not, I dunno. I just got some of the stuff in to try out, and so far seems like a great lubricant.

However when I have something I absolutely want protected from rust I use Eezox, infact I'm almost tempted to try mixing some froglube with eezox to see what happens.

After messing around with this stuff, I have a sneaking suspicion that it uses coconut oil as a base, the smoke point for coconut oil is 350 degrees, and when I season a cast iron pan, I coat it with oil and heat it till it just starts to smoke, though I doubt much beyond the bolt and barrel on a firearm would approach that temp in civilian usage.

Littlelebowski
11-24-11, 16:21
I have had much better corrosion protection using FrogLube on my Warren sights mounted on my daily carry gun than Eezox.

Still testing it with my corrosive 5.45 ammo but so far it's not dazzlingly better. Blog post coming..... However, it works no worse than anything with exception of possibly Weaponshield.

I have not tested it with Breakfree CLP nor do I intend to. The god awful smell brings up too many bad memories from the Corps.

Skang
11-24-11, 17:18
:eek: Froglube

I'd like to see weaponshield on that test too.

brian0128
11-24-11, 17:28
Well, I did a corrosion test.
.


Thanks for the test.

CLHC
11-24-11, 20:12
Some videos of FrogLube with "corrosion/salt spray test." Again that's just one person's sampling.

http://www.froglube.com/videos.htm

WS6
11-25-11, 00:49
Well I was thinking 200 degrees till it looks dry, then reapply, then heatcycle one more time, and make a light coat of the stuff, wipe off with a dry cloth and then test. Whether that makes any difference or not, I dunno. I just got some of the stuff in to try out, and so far seems like a great lubricant.

However when I have something I absolutely want protected from rust I use Eezox, infact I'm almost tempted to try mixing some froglube with eezox to see what happens.

After messing around with this stuff, I have a sneaking suspicion that it uses coconut oil as a base, the smoke point for coconut oil is 350 degrees, and when I season a cast iron pan, I coat it with oil and heat it till it just starts to smoke, though I doubt much beyond the bolt and barrel on a firearm would approach that temp in civilian usage.
Pre-heating oven to 200*F now...

Nail 1: Frog-lube wiped on, excess wiped off. Placed in testing.
Nail 2: Frog-lube wiped on, allowed to "cure" at room temperature for 60 minutes and excess wiped off. Placed in testing
Nail 3: Frog-lube applied, nail placed in oven at 200*F for 15 minutes, excess wiped off, re-applied, placed in oven for another 30 minutes, let set at room temp for 15 minutes, nail wiped, placed in testing.

Lets see how they fare...
http://i43.tinypic.com/2q898j6.jpg

WS6
11-25-11, 04:07
PS, all 3 of the Frog-lube nails are now rusting what appears to be equally. Same performance as before. Like I thought, just more manufacturer BS about "seeping into pores" and whatnot. I played that game with Militec.

WS6
11-25-11, 06:16
http://i43.tinypic.com/iz9j6s.jpg

SW-Shooter
11-25-11, 14:20
Crap, I bought into the hype and now I have a FL kit sitting in my safe. Oh well, I'll use it someday. Until then there's always Breakfree CLP.

ETA: But then again none of my guns are bare steel either. Is testing it on a steel bare metal nail a true indicator of its performance? I'm thinking the nail test doesn't mean squat, how about a gun with finish on it. Who knows.

An Undocumented Worker
11-25-11, 17:25
As I said before, it seems like a great lubricant, and my firearms have a greater chance of wearing out than rusting with how I store em and use em. I just got some froglube the other day and cleaned, degreased, and lubed up with froglube one of my AR's and one of my carry pistols.

The charging handle on my AR that I lubed with this stuff is runnig alot smoother with the froglube than it was with Slip2000 EWL 30. If this stuff continues to work good even after plenty of rounds through the weapons I'll continue to use it.

And to be perfectly honest, the blued/parkerized parts on my carbon steel CZ haven't rusted even with minimal to pretty much neglecting the exterior parts, after carrying concealed here in humid Ga in the summer, except for the heads of the grip screws, so you may be on to something regarding gun finishes reacting differently than bare steel.

If I do see rust using this stuff I let ya'll know about it, though I find it unlikely.

And thanks for the testing WS6, If you have any Eezox I'd like to see how that stuff fares in your testing.

DBR
11-25-11, 18:23
I have tested Eezox several times using bead blasted mild steel bar stock and a 5% salt spray. It always worked much better than CLP which was second best.

Except for industrial corrosion prevention chemicals it is hard to beat Eezox. It is particularly good on parkerized finishes. I think the main reason it works so well is it is 30% heavier than water so it doesn't float off the surface.

I spoke with the gentleman who formulated Eezox when I started to use it back in 1995. He was a retired chemical engineer who had worked in the petroleum industry formulating turbine oils. He wanted a lubricant/protectant for his salt water fishing reels. Eezox was the result.

sgtjosh
11-25-11, 18:52
I think some of y'all are missing the point by going off on a corrosion protection tangents with your home science kits, roofing nails, and ACME brand microscopes.

1. When cold, Froglube is a paste and does not attract all the crap a liquid lube will.

2. When it heats up during firing, Froglube liquefies and lubes very well.

3. All the fouling gets caught up in this and does not grab a hold of the weapon.

4. Clean up is a wipe-down and reapplication.

5. No nasty smell.

6. Non-toxic food grade product.

7. Not petroleum based.

If corrosion protection is your priority, use a product specifically for that and wipe down after exposure to salt spray.

Corrosion protection is seldom as important as lubrication, as routine maintenance will take care of corrosion.

Froglube's strength is that it lubes well and speeds cleanup.

Iraqgunz
11-25-11, 19:03
You said that better than I could have.


I think some of y'all are missing the point by going off on a corrosion protection tangents with your home science kits, roofing nails, and ACME brand microscopes.

1. When cold, Froglube is a paste and does not attract all the crap a liquid lube will.

2. When it heats up during firing, Froglube liquefies and lubes very well.

3. All the fouling gets caught up in this and does not grab a hold of the weapon.

4. Clean up is a wipe-down and reapplication.

5. No nasty smell.

6. Non-toxic food grade product.

7. Not petroleum based.

If corrosion protection is your priority, use a product specifically for that and wipe down after exposure to salt spray.

Corrosion protection is seldom as important as lubrication, as routine maintenance will take care of corrosion.

Froglube's strength is that it lubes well and speeds cleanup.

CLHC
11-25-11, 19:44
In agreement with the last two posts above!

bigkracka
11-25-11, 21:08
Corrosion tests are bullshit for most, unless you have a specific need. I've been running froglube on my AR and carry gun with excellent results.

a0cake
11-25-11, 21:49
Also remember that Froglube beads water off the surface of metals treated with it. That's primarily how its corrosion protection works...by shedding water, not preventing oxidization. Did anybody really think that a vegetable product would be effective at preventing rust / oxidization by chemical means???

So, in a scenario where you trap a nail with water that has no place to go, of course the Froglube treated metal is going to rust. In the real world, the water would be either not staying on the metal or at least able to be wiped away without leaving moisture on the gun.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Froglube is not going to prevent rust like Eezox or CLP which do the best job. Eezox and CLP are not going to lubricate as well as Slip2000 EWL. Etc etc etc. There's no single "miracle product" despite the hopes that it was Froglube.

Determine what your needs are, based on the conditions in your area, and choose a solution that will work for you.

For those who work in environments where rust and moisture are a small to moderate consideration, Froglube is a good choice.

For people working in / around water, you should probably look elsewhere.

Fair?

WS6
11-26-11, 00:30
How long for it to become paste? It never dried on the nails. Left at room temp for an hour. Still wet.

jmart
11-26-11, 00:33
How long for it to become paste? It never dried on the nails. Left at room temp for an hour. Still wet.

Froglube has two versions: one's a paste that liquifies under heat, and then re-hardens at room temp, the other is a liquid.

WS6
11-26-11, 01:13
Froglube has two versions: one's a paste that liquifies under heat, and then re-hardens at room temp, the other is a liquid.

So...on the bcg...are we to use paste or clp? I take it the clp never dries?

WS6
11-26-11, 01:23
Froglube has two versions: one's a paste that liquifies under heat, and then re-hardens at room temp, the other is a liquid.

So...on the bcg...are we to use paste or clp? I take it the clp never dries?

bobke
11-26-11, 07:52
Pretty interesting thread, even as tedious as lube dissertations can get. i've kinda bought into the kool aid for Frog Lube on my Noveske, using the paste on bcg and sliding parts, liquid on rotational parts-and the options have worked well, especially in hot/dry hill country Texas. But...shot monthly IDPA event two weeks ago with very tightly fitted, hard chromed Les Baer 45 that's got about 1500+ rounds through it and has still not thoroughly broken in yet. Cleaned it all prior to relubing lightly with FL paste on slide/barrel hood/bushing/lugs and suffered a handful of feeding issues that I'm not certain I can positively attribute to FL paste, but between the very tight fit of slide, the additional tolerance taken up by the paste and fact that in all the waiting in between stages, the gun never really got hot enough to redistribute the lube as it would in a looser fit bcg on a more consistently fired AR, I'm removing all the FL and relubing with Machine Gunner's Lube for it's thinner viscosity and still excellent lube qualities and see if it's the FL or gun, once and for all. And will say, as I'd read elsewhere, I've used MGL on an RCBS progressive press ram and it's the only thing that worked effectively and for as long as it has, including the sometimes vaunted CLP.
All said, as above, certain applications suggest use of alternate products-one size does not fit all.

jmart
11-26-11, 10:02
So...on the bcg...are we to use paste or clp? I take it the clp never dries?

I'm not a user so not sure I can answer your question. I'm guessing the paste kind of smears on, and then when it first heats up it spreads out evenly, but that's just a guess from what I gathered watching their posted videos. To be certain, go to the company's website and ask them for their recommendations.

markm
11-26-11, 11:46
Corrosion tests are bullshit for most, unless you have a specific need.

Not important to use in the dry, hot desert. But I can certainly see how it'd be important to some.

punkey71
11-26-11, 12:50
So...on the bcg...are we to use paste or clp? I take it the clp never dries?

Froglube in either paste or liquid is a CLP.

The paste turns to a liquid with heat and the liquid...well, is a liquid.

If you fire your gun for short periods (IDPA/IPSC) perhaps the liquid would be better if your gun needs to be wet.

Personally, I use only the paste for my AR's and Glocks. I fire enough in a short period of time for the paste on the AR to turn to and remain a liquid for the remainder of my shooting session. On the Glocks a very thin layer (barely visible) is all I apply as it has no need to be dripping wet.

Perhaps you need both the liquid and the paste or you many need only one. Individual needs will dictate that but the paste is all I need.

The biggest benefits I have realized are the non-toxic/pleasant smell the family appreciates and the ease of simply wiping down and re-applying.

Harold

sgtjosh
11-26-11, 13:08
So...on the bcg...are we to use paste or clp? I take it the clp never dries?


I don't know that it matters. The paste turns to a liquid on a warm gun during firing and turns back to paste when it cools.

Again

extrication
11-26-11, 14:44
Great thread. I've learned to never store my ammo with potential primer solvents. I've also learned to never use abrasives to strip away the protective surfaces of my weapons if I plan to store them in salt water. Maybe I'll just keep them as clean as possible, lubricate them well and remove contaminants ASAP. Proper corrosion protection and lubrication only changes the intervals between maintenance, it doesn't change the necessity as dictated by the environment of the deployed location. Deferred maintenance is for doomed weapons. Very similar to automotive care.

jmart
11-26-11, 14:47
.... I've also learned to never use abrasives to strip away the protective surfaces of my weapons if I plan to store them in salt water....

:D ;) :p

Shiz
11-26-11, 16:40
Froglube is pretty damned cool. I almost want to say there is beeswax in it, but I don't have a clue. All I know is, is minty fresh. :D

It didn't remove old carbon that was on before I treated it the first time, but it sure removes the new stuff.

An Undocumented Worker
11-26-11, 17:07
Well I just lubed up my Browning Buckmark with this stuff, that thing gets a metric %#@! ton of carbon/lead on the breach face and feedramp that likes to really stick on there. So I believe this pistol will truly be a good test of how well the Froglube prevents carbon from sticking.

I'm also thinking of using some froglube as a .22lr bullet lube to see if it helps accuracy any, as many of the higherquality match target rounds use a greasy coating that seems similar to the FrogLube, this will also give me an idea if it will deactivate ammo aswell. I'll report back on these findings after I get the buckmark to the range.

ColdDeadHands
01-06-12, 08:34
Not important to use in the dry, hot desert. But I can certainly see how it'd be important to some.

I live fairly close to the Coast, for corrosion protection I wipe my guns with a Hoppe's silicone cloth about every 2 weeks - including my carry gun. I have yet to find rust on any of my guns. It's a easy, quick & cheap way to protect your firearm from rust.
Hope this helps anyone with rust problems - wipe your gun down more often if you see the need. Froglube is a lube and should be used as such.

markm
01-06-12, 09:22
I actually used froglube on the cutting heads of my Norelco electric razor!!!

You're supposed to lube the cutters periodically... but I never wanted a petroleum based lube getting cross mojonated will my delicate pores! Problem solved!!

I also ran some froglube on my LE WILSON case trimmer. Seems to hang out longer than Mobil 1 did.

nineteenkilo
01-06-12, 10:43
It has worked exactly as described, and my wife doesn't bitch about the smell.

SOLD! My wife loves the shooting, but hates the bore cleaner and oil afterwards. Anything to make the missus happy.

krichbaum
01-07-12, 18:30
I've been trying Froglube on one of my AR's. FWIW, it's a 16" midlength, never used with a suppressor. It seems to work ok, but when it's not hot it seems kind of gummed up. The bolt is really sticky in the carrier. This worries me a bit because until it heats up it acts like it's really dirty even though it's not.

Do you wipe off every bit of excess lube when you clean/lube the weapon? I wipe off the inside of the receiver and the outside of the bcg, but haven't really wiped down the bolt and inside of carrier after lubing. It looks like that's the problem, just wondering if that makes sense?

Iraqgunz
01-07-12, 20:23
Actually this makes no sense at all because the FrogLube actually heats and disperses. I can only assume that you didn't remove whatever else you previously used and there was som kind of reaction.


I've been trying Froglube on one of my AR's. FWIW, it's a 16" midlength, never used with a suppressor. It seems to work ok, but when it's not hot it seems kind of gummed up. The bolt is really sticky in the carrier. This worries me a bit because until it heats up it acts like it's really dirty even though it's not.

Do you wipe off every bit of excess lube when you clean/lube the weapon? I wipe off the inside of the receiver and the outside of the bcg, but haven't really wiped down the bolt and inside of carrier after lubing. It looks like that's the problem, just wondering if that makes sense?

sgtjosh
01-07-12, 20:37
It seems to work ok, but when it's not hot it seems kind of gummed up. The bolt is really sticky in the carrier. This worries me a bit because until it heats up it acts like it's really dirty even though it's not.

Do you wipe off every bit of excess lube when you clean/lube the weapon? I wipe off the inside of the receiver and the outside of the bcg, but haven't really wiped down the bolt and inside of carrier after lubing. It looks like that's the problem, just wondering if that makes sense?

Leave the "excess." It is not going to provide enough resistance to encumber functioning. It will also heat up in to a liquid real fast.

If it is working for you, don't invent a reason not to like it.

krichbaum
01-07-12, 21:20
Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a reason not to like this stuff. Prior to using it, I cleaned off the clp that was previously used by spraying everything with brake cleaner. Then I further cleaned everything with alcohol. For the initial application I used a heat gun to heat up the disassembled parts of the bcg and applied the paste with a brush. After it cooled I wiped off the excess. I did the same inside the upper. For the barrel I just used the liquid. Then I repeated all of that again on another day. Since then, I just wipe/swab everything after shooting and lube it with the liquid mostly as with any other clp product, wiping off excess everywhere except inside the bcg.

I'm not concerned about how the weapon works once it gets warmed up (even a little). My concern is just when the weapon is cold, the bolt is very sticky in the bcg to the point that I'm a little worried it wouldn't go into battery. I've had that happen before, although not because of a lube or clp. I had an unknown substance inside the bcg and it gummed it up to the point that the bolt would hardly move (I think it was loctite in there). I realize you guys may consider this to be overthinking the situation. I just wanted to make sure I'm not doing something wrong with the Froglube, that's all.

ETA: I believe I asked about the Froglube reacting with other lubes or clp products in a previous post. This is one reason why I asked about that. I really don't think there is anything there other than the Froglube at this point.

eternal24k
01-07-12, 21:35
anybody received their sample yet? I have not heard a peep but am very excited to try it out

markm
01-07-12, 21:43
I put froglube on my suppressed carbean today. I had topped it off before, but that was on top of other lubes and filth.

I wiped all the old lube off and Frogged my bean. Shit! This stuff is noticeably better. Working the BCG manually feels like it's on glass. I can't wait to shoot it and relube and repeat to see.

I wish someone had turned me on to this stuff for gun lube earlier.

Iraqgunz
01-07-12, 21:46
1. Don't wipe off the excess.

2. You are worrying about nothing.

3. If you pull the charging handle to the rear as you are supposed to and you release it there should be no issues at all. YMMV


Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a reason not to like this stuff. Prior to using it, I cleaned off the clp that was previously used by spraying everything with brake cleaner. Then I further cleaned everything with alcohol. For the initial application I used a heat gun to heat up the disassembled parts of the bcg and applied the paste with a brush. After it cooled I wiped off the excess. I did the same inside the upper. For the barrel I just used the liquid. Then I repeated all of that again on another day. Since then, I just wipe/swab everything after shooting and lube it with the liquid mostly as with any other clp product, wiping off excess everywhere except inside the bcg.

I'm not concerned about how the weapon works once it gets warmed up (even a little). My concern is just when the weapon is cold, the bolt is very sticky in the bcg to the point that I'm a little worried it wouldn't go into battery. I've had that happen before, although not because of a lube or clp. I had an unknown substance inside the bcg and it gummed it up to the point that the bolt would hardly move (I think it was loctite in there). I realize you guys may consider this to be overthinking the situation. I just wanted to make sure I'm not doing something wrong with the Froglube, that's all.

ETA: I believe I asked about the Froglube reacting with other lubes or clp products in a previous post. This is one reason why I asked about that. I really don't think there is anything there other than the Froglube at this point.

MrSmitty
01-07-12, 23:31
I just received a new Noveske upper yesterday. I used some Slip 725 to clean of the BCG and the inside of the upper receiver. After heating the BCG I slathered the paste on. Smells delightful, I'm almost a little excited to get gassed out when the can comes in...

As IG stated, I didn't wipe off the excess. It seems to stay on the BCG without working its way into the lower or out of the weapon.


My concern is just when the weapon is cold, the bolt is very sticky in the bcg to the point that I'm a little worried it wouldn't go into battery.

My rifle was sitting outside for a few hours today before I got a chance to sight it in, the temp was probably around 38F. The FrogLube was thick and 'pasty' just as it should be but the action was still smooth when I racked the charging handle and let it slam home (don't ride it), no issues at all. It was nice and wet after the first few shots.

Littlelebowski
01-08-12, 15:26
I live fairly close to the Coast, for corrosion protection I wipe my guns with a Hoppe's silicone cloth about every 2 weeks - including my carry gun. I have yet to find rust on any of my guns. It's a easy, quick & cheap way to protect your firearm from rust.
Hope this helps anyone with rust problems - wipe your gun down more often if you see the need. Froglube is a lube and should be used as such.

Actually, it's labeled as a CLP and has kept me from having to wipe down the Warren Tactical sights on my carry gun for a long time. Used to be that I'd have to wipe them down once a month or so.

kartoffel
01-08-12, 17:06
anybody received their sample yet? I have not heard a peep but am very excited to try it out

I caved and ordered some from Brownell's a while back.

Subjective observations follow below:

Frog Lube does help remove grime and carbon. I like being able to get "hands-on" without worrying about poisonous junk on my skin.
Frog Lube melts at a lower temperature than I had expected, versus, say, Ox Yoke or Bore Butter. Viscosity while liquid leaves a bit to be desired if you wish to depend on FL as a boundary lubricant.
Frog Lube leaves a pleasant waxy (not greasy, IMHO) film behind which appears to do a decent job of sealing metal surfaces against external sources of oxidation.
Unlike comparable non-petroleum products for the muzzleloading market, Frog Lube does not freeze rock hard, nor does it get hard enough to crack. If you're OK with Frog Lube at room temperature, I think it will treat you well in freezing temperatures too.


FL is now my #1 choice for wiping down knives. It smells better than Ballistol, and is simpler to apply than Renaissance Wax.

HawaiianM4
01-08-12, 18:55
Great thread. I've learned to never store my ammo with potential primer solvents. I've also learned to never use abrasives to strip away the protective surfaces of my weapons if I plan to store them in salt water. Maybe I'll just keep them as clean as possible, lubricate them well and remove contaminants ASAP. Proper corrosion protection and lubrication only changes the intervals between maintenance, it doesn't change the necessity as dictated by the environment of the deployed location. Deferred maintenance is for doomed weapons. Very similar to automotive care.

I like your "Deferred maintenance is for doomed weapons.". I think this is great to use as a quote. To many people shot and put away. Cleaning and proper maint of weapons of weapons. I have gone to dry lubrication instead of the wet and gummy stuff. Try Rem® Drilube™. Teflon-based lubricant provides a tough, non-congealing film without the residue of dry graphite lubes.

jet66
01-08-12, 20:19
It smells better than Ballistol

Just about anything smells better than Ballistol, ack. We moved away from a mink oil lube to Ballistol for minor mechanical items (door latches, padlocks, etc.) that are exposed to the elements. I have to get rid of the wipes I use to take up the excess ASAP or the smell in my truck makes me ill. The stuff works great, but God forbid I get it on my hand.

After trying some Slip 2000 for the first time, I am intrigued by FL. Non-toxic AND smells good? I definitely need to give this a shot.

sgtjosh
01-08-12, 20:28
Just about anything smells better than Ballistol, ack. We moved away from a mink oil lube to Ballistol for minor mechanical items (door latches, padlocks, etc.) that are exposed to the elements. I have to get rid of the wipes I use to take up the excess ASAP or the smell in my truck makes me ill. The stuff works great, but God forbid I get it on my hand.

After trying some Slip 2000 for the first time, I am intrigued by FL. Non-toxic AND smells good? I definitely need to give this a shot.

For locks and latches, use a teflon based dry lube.

jet66
01-08-12, 20:41
For locks and latches, use a teflon based dry lube.
This is at work (a telco,) so I use what they have listed for us to order. It's probably meant for some other use, but it is the only lube/penetrating spray I have access to, so that's what locks and latches gets. The mink oil actually worked pretty well, for a lot of stuff, but I think there was something 'environmentally unsound' in that particular brand so they stopped buying it.

Preliator
01-08-12, 20:53
OK Gang, I left my paste out in the car all week this week, temps have been -25 to -15 degrees all week. The paste still applied normally to my glocks - it was just really cold on my fingers.

I still haven't gotten outside and shot a signifigant amount with the FL on, but I am happy with how it appears to be holding up in cold weather. I am having more luck with the liquid on my bolt/BCG than I was with the paste - not that I think the paste was an issue, it seemed a little to thick on frozen parts and parts seemed a little sluggish on the first one or two racks.

Still happy with the product and am using it exclusively on my weapons.

markm
01-09-12, 08:42
I did an unscientific carbon test yesterday. (no control test with another product)

I wiped off my carbon caked silencer mount/flash hider with a dry rag to remove any carbon that would just wipe off...

Then I coated the mount in Froglube and let it sit about 8 hours. A lot of the carbon was able to be wiped off. I had a solid black soiled rag from just hand wiping the mount.

Dsm2nr
01-09-12, 12:50
I wish it were colder here in MN this year. I've been wanting to try it out in below freezing temps. But it has been in the 40s the past couple days now. Pretty weird for winter in MN.

After reading IG's post saying not to wipe off the excess I wanted to try it. Before I had been heating, pasting, letting cool, wiping off the paste and lubing wear points with the liquid. Last night I heated, pasted, let cool and put the CH and BCG back in. Markm was right, although I'd say it's more like ice skates on ice. And although I'm sure the entire bcg doesn't need to be coated, I don't see any harm coming from it. I really want to try this setup in the freeze now.

markm
01-09-12, 13:00
Markm was right, although I'd say it's more like ice skates on ice.

Yeah... I was surprised. I'll work the BCG in the upper before reassembly, and I can feel a huge difference. I can't wait to see if it's still slick after shooting the gun.

redhands
01-09-12, 13:20
Out of curiosity, for those using FL, are you doing a complete parts strip for the initial cleaning before applying FL or would simply hosing the lower out with brake cleaner be ok? I have the paste version only and was planning to apply it to the lower internals by dropping on globs and then hitting it with a hair dryer for dispersion.

markm
01-09-12, 13:23
Out of curiosity, for those using FL, are you doing a complete parts strip for the initial cleaning before applying FL or would simply hosing the lower out with brake cleaner be ok? I have the paste version only and was planning to apply it to the lower internals by dropping on globs and then hitting it with a hair dryer for dispersion.

Lower parts aren't that critical. It's the bolt group that matters most. I wouldn't have even touched my lower parts if it weren't for my gun acting funny... ended up finding a blown primer was floating around in my lower. :mad:

WS6
01-09-12, 13:24
I like your "Deferred maintenance is for doomed weapons.". I think this is great to use as a quote. To many people shot and put away. Cleaning and proper maint of weapons of weapons. I have gone to dry lubrication instead of the wet and gummy stuff. Try Rem® Drilube™. Teflon-based lubricant provides a tough, non-congealing film without the residue of dry graphite lubes.

Will not be as effective as a wet lube on the AR platform.

Paladin801
01-09-12, 13:59
Out of curiosity, for those using FL, are you doing a complete parts strip for the initial cleaning before applying FL or would simply hosing the lower out with brake cleaner be ok? I have the paste version only and was planning to apply it to the lower internals by dropping on globs and then hitting it with a hair dryer for dispersion.

Not being a smart a$$, but read the directions. I even think there's a youtube video on using it. I took my BCG down completely and soaked all the small parts in alcohol to remove everything and went from there. I think you'll be satisfied with this method. I used a hair dryer too and when we had the hot sun here, I left the larger parts of my weapon out in the sun for about an hour after wiping everything good with alcohol. After this procedure, you'll be shocked at all of the crud you remove with FL while seasoning the metal. Good luck and enjoy it. It works for me.

Dsm2nr
01-09-12, 14:00
delete

markm
01-09-12, 14:05
Not being a smart a$$, but read the directions.

This is true...

The first time I tried it I was out shooting and couldn't remove the existing lube. I ended up with a goopy mess. I knew I didn't do it right, but needed a quick shot of lube at the shoot.

I'm interested to try it this time after wiping all the old lube out of the BCG.

redhands
01-09-12, 15:36
Thanks for the replies. Isopropyl for the BCG and Jameson for me:D

extrication
01-09-12, 15:48
Thanks for the replies. Isopropyl for the BCG and Jameson for me:D

I lost my FrogLube instructions. I'm following your plan.

old grunt usmc
01-10-12, 15:50
what about using autozone brake cleaner to clean all metal parts?

tb-av
01-10-12, 16:11
I'm guessing the iso-alcohol is recommended as it is the cheapest and most user friendly solvent that will get the job done. Acetone being towards the less user friendly end of the spectrum.

I think the only point is to use a solvent to get rid of all oil, grease, etc. before FL is applied.

mildot
01-10-12, 16:29
I contacted Tactical Santa for a sample, but its looks like they didn't follow through. Anyone else have the same disappointment?

Blankwaffe
01-10-12, 16:35
I'm guessing the iso-alcohol is recommended as it is the cheapest and most user friendly solvent that will get the job done. Acetone being towards the less user friendly end of the spectrum.

I think the only point is to use a solvent to get rid of all oil, grease, etc. before FL is applied.

The alcohol leaves no solvent residue to counteract the lubricant from seeking the surface or degredation of the lubricant itself.

Mil-comm has the very same recommendation to prep/clean with 91% or higher isopropyl alcohol for optimum results when first applying their products.They also recommed the use of alcohol to remove bore solvent residue after use.
Mil-comm has been criticized in the past by some who consider this step or prep as being anal. But hey,the owners of Mil-comm are Lubrication Engineers,and Engineers are somewhat anal by training....most times than not they have solid theory for the recommendations they make.

Its also easy to see that most petro solvents,and products like CLP will displace or break down other lubricants very effectively.In CLP's case it penetrates straight to the base metal driven by the ability to creep/penetrate,and wets the surfaces very effectively,which is why its so hard to degrease a weapon that has had CLP on it.Even when wiped dry,or degreased with brake cleaner etc. the CLP seems to continue to weep out of the surfaces,particularly when heated during use.Lots of folks think CLP dries out,but what looks dry "aint always dry."

So when changing to a different lube it may take a couple applications/uses before it can truely get a foothold even if the surface is cleaned as recommended.This is particularly true with heavier viscosity liquids,and particularly pastes or greases.Which is also why some recommend polishing the lubricants into/onto the metal.

old grunt usmc
01-10-12, 17:16
The autozone brake cleaner leaves no residue.

Dsm2nr
01-10-12, 17:21
The autozone brake cleaner leaves no residue.

I use to work on cars a lot. All brake cleaner leaves a residue if you let it pool. If you use brake parts cleaner, try to wipe off the excess before you let it dry. But I wouldn't hesitate using it (NON-CHLORINATED!!)

old grunt usmc
01-10-12, 17:25
Yes that's the one i used and no problems with my froglube. love the stuff!

skullworks
01-19-12, 10:56
Frog Lube also has a stripper now - non-toxic and pour-down-the-drain just like the lube. And, of course, super effective.

I had the pleasure of being introduced to the Frog Lube family at SHOT through the good graces of Iraqgunz. I also had the pleasure of meeting Cpt Lasky's family - and Frog Lube truly is a family business.

old grunt usmc
01-19-12, 11:03
sweet gonna have to get some!

WS6
01-19-12, 11:06
Frog Lube also has a stripper now - non-toxic and pour-down-the-drain just like the lube. And, of course, super effective.

I had the pleasure of being introduced to the Frog Lube family at SHOT through the good graces of Iraqgunz. I also had the pleasure of meeting Cpt Lasky's family - and Frog Lube truly is a family business.

I will probably get some of the stripper. It doesn't leave anything behind, does it? I know some strippers for firearms are designed to, just want to make sure this stuff won't.

markm
01-19-12, 11:17
I'd like to rub froglube on a stripper.

WS6
01-19-12, 11:20
I'd like to rub froglube on a stripper.

Lol, I just want to know if the stripper will leave any Frog Lube crap behind to "protect" my weapon, or if it is a true stripper.

tdoom15
01-19-12, 15:19
Based on all the reviews, I picked some up a couple weeks ago...

Completely cleaned the bolt and carrier with rubbing alcohol, warmed up everything with a hair dryer, and used the supplied brush to baste everything with the paste. I didnt know how much to put on, so I went with a relatively light coating as this was the first time using it. After watching the paste "melt" on when applying, i had no doubt it would do the same when in use.

I put 200 rounds through it the next day with no problems. By the end of the day, the light coating, cold weather, and debris seemed to dry everything up but it still had a slight wet look to it. I took it home, generously recoated everything with the liquid and took it out this last weekend for another 150 rounds with no problems and this time it was still plenty wet.

Things I noticed:
-Worked well: stays put and warms up quickly, then returns to a semi solid state when it cools
-Dont be afraid to be generous when applying, the paste and liquid mix well together
-PLEASURE to work with as it smells great and washed off easily
-Parts wiped pretty clean afterward, but I will still probably detail clean it periodically

I like it, I'm very glad I gave it shot thanks to this thread!

WS6
01-19-12, 18:56
Based on all the reviews, I picked some up a couple weeks ago...

Completely cleaned the bolt and carrier with rubbing alcohol, warmed up everything with a hair dryer, and used the supplied brush to baste everything with the paste. I didnt know how much to put on, so I went with a relatively light coating as this was the first time using it. After watching the paste "melt" on when applying, i had no doubt it would do the same when in use.

I put 200 rounds through it the next day with no problems. By the end of the day, the light coating, cold weather, and debris seemed to dry everything up but it still had a slight wet look to it. I took it home, generously recoated everything with the liquid and took it out this last weekend for another 150 rounds with no problems and this time it was still plenty wet.

Things I noticed:
-Worked well: stays put and warms up quickly, then returns to a semi solid state when it cools
-Dont be afraid to be generous when applying, the paste and liquid mix well together
-PLEASURE to work with as it smells great and washed off easily
-Parts wiped pretty clean afterward, but I will still probably detail clean it periodically

I like it, I'm very glad I gave it shot thanks to this thread!

I had similar results, except I noted that my AR felt more "gritty" than when I just lubed it with regular CLP. It also had more friction when cycling. The buffer-spring would not push the bolt closed and latch the handle anymore, when "babied" forward. With any other lube I have tried on the weapon, it would. I do have some joint pain and a cast iron skillet, though, so not all is lost, lol

extrication
01-19-12, 20:13
Ran three hundred rounds through a new rifle today that was prepped with frog lube. I broke it down and cleaned it afterward. All components required only a quick wipe down and light lube. After fifteen minutes it appeared the weapon was never fired. Absolutely no functional issues and the wife had no odor complaints afterward (regarding the lube). Next week I'll run an additional thousand rounds through it and I'll post a report.

WS6
01-19-12, 21:34
Ran three hundred rounds through a new rifle today that was prepped with frog lube. I broke it down and cleaned it afterward. All components required only a quick wipe down and light lube. After fifteen minutes it appeared the weapon was never fired. Absolutely no functional issues and the wife had no odor complaints afterward (regarding the lube). Next week I'll run an additional thousand rounds through it and I'll post a report.

Please post a picture of the bolt and rails and sides of the gas key of the carrier if you don't mind? I am curious as to wear at this point. I stopped using Fl after 60 rounds and now have about 300 through my rifle, too, and want to see a comparison.

NoveskeFan
01-19-12, 23:07
Where is this Frog Lube stripper available?

skullworks
01-20-12, 03:26
I would suggest e-mailing Frog Lube directly. They were handing out samples at SHOT.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

tdoom15
01-20-12, 09:07
I had similar results, except I noted that my AR felt more "gritty" than when I just lubed it with regular CLP. It also had more friction when cycling. The buffer-spring would not push the bolt closed and latch the handle anymore, when "babied" forward. With any other lube I have tried on the weapon, it would. I do have some joint pain and a cast iron skillet, though, so not all is lost, lol

I didn't notice that it felt gritty at all when cleaned and frog lube applied, but I did notice that after 200 rounds when it semi dried up, that the bolt did not seat all the way forward on it's own when "babied" forward. Worth noting, that it did seat when clean and the first light coat of frog lube was initially applied.

Once I added a good amount of the liquid to the action (without cleaning or wiping off after the first 200 rds), the buffer spring could push the bolt closed. I think once everything cools, the action takes a few cycles to get completely "wet" again, I dont think it should be a problem, even in cold weather. I would recommend trying it again and using a generous amount of the product and see if your experience changes.

eternal24k
01-20-12, 09:17
anybody received their sample yet?

kartoffel
01-20-12, 09:39
Where is this Frog Lube stripper available?

Walgreens?

Littlelebowski
01-20-12, 16:27
Great thread. I've learned to never store my ammo with potential primer solvents. I've also learned to never use abrasives to strip away the protective surfaces of my weapons if I plan to store them in salt water. Maybe I'll just keep them as clean as possible, lubricate them well and remove contaminants ASAP. Proper corrosion protection and lubrication only changes the intervals between maintenance, it doesn't change the necessity as dictated by the environment of the deployed location. Deferred maintenance is for doomed weapons. Very similar to automotive care.

What weapons are you shooting corrosive ammo through? How do you define "deferred maintenance" for weapons?

krisjon
01-20-12, 18:12
Put another 300 rounds downrange today with my Froglubed Noveske. Lots of heat and 2-3 round bursts with my 3G trigger. It gets wet, stays that way and keeps everything moving flawlessly. I love the stuff and almost look forward to cleaning my rifle now. I was using Slip 2000 before, but now that's been retired to my cleaning box strictly as a backup lube.

WS6
01-20-12, 21:36
I didn't notice that it felt gritty at all when cleaned and frog lube applied, but I did notice that after 200 rounds when it semi dried up, that the bolt did not seat all the way forward on it's own when "babied" forward. Worth noting, that it did seat when clean and the first light coat of frog lube was initially applied.

Once I added a good amount of the liquid to the action (without cleaning or wiping off after the first 200 rds), the buffer spring could push the bolt closed. I think once everything cools, the action takes a few cycles to get completely "wet" again, I dont think it should be a problem, even in cold weather. I would recommend trying it again and using a generous amount of the product and see if your experience changes.
I used a lit of the stuff. Bathed the bcg in it. It's just not a good lube imo.

I do plan on more testing though. I want to buy two new bolts, treat one with weapon shield, and one with froglube, and run a hundred or so rounds through each and see which shows more wear. I love shooting, can keep the bolts for spares after the fact, and put this to bed once and for all as far as I am concerned. I already know its a poor protectant, now to test wear.

Littlelebowski
01-20-12, 21:38
I used a lit of the stuff. Bathed the bcg in it. It's just not a good lube imo.

I do plan on more testing though. I want to buy two new bolts, treat one with weapon shield, and one with froglube, and run a hundred or so rounds through each and see which shows more wear. I love shooting, can keep the bolts for spares after the fact, and put this to bed once and for all as far as I am concerned. I already know its a poor protectant, now to test wear.

So odd how my results from training classes are direct opposites of yours. On with your crusade against Froglube!

WS6
01-20-12, 21:48
So odd how my results from training classes are direct opposites of yours. On with your crusade against Froglube!

Plenty of lubes have made it through training classes. I just hate snake oil and this stuff smacks of it. Bunch of emotion, no facts, militec-1 part dos.

The only thing I like are the physical properties of it stayingset, etc. However, when tested on stress or wear machines, it fails fast
I wish it did all the liars who sell it claim, but every time I try to test a claim, it falls way short. Such as rust prevention. Very poor. Now I am going to see how it does on wear with a rifle.

ROUTEMICHIGAN
01-21-12, 01:49
Breakfree, Militec, Ballistol, Slip EWL-- tried 'em all for years. Still run Slip on my 16" carbine-- 6,600 rounds trouble free. Tried Froglube as a comparo test on my brand new 14.5" middy and totally impressed-- 750 rounds through it so far. Haters are gonna hate.

Paladin801
01-21-12, 07:53
Calling someone a liar is pretty damn strong IMHO. Someone is working hard for induction into the "Hall of Shame" here. I think it's against forum rules to call fellow members "Liars". I believe everyone has the right to their opinion, but calling fellow Brothers Liars is way too much. Agree to disagree and go get a group hug somewhere else. In case the poster removes this post.That is all !

WS6 Online
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
So odd how my results from training classes are direct opposites of yours. On with your crusade against Froglube!
Plenty of lubes have made it through training classes. I just hate snake oil and this stuff smacks of it. Bunch of emotion, no facts, militec-1 part dos.

The only thing I like are the physical properties of it stayingset, etc. However, when tested on stress or wear machines, it fails fast
I wish it did all the liars who sell it claim, but every time I try to test a claim, it falls way short. Such as rust prevention. Very poor. Now I am going to see how it does on wear with a rifle.
__________________

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 08:56
My Warren sights on my carry gun used to need an Eezox treatment every month. With FrogLube, they do not.

My guns run well with FrogLube. They clean up easily. I've done more than just run "a few hundred rounds" through my guns using FL.

snakedoctor
01-21-12, 09:55
Did anyone see FrogLube at ShotShow? Im interested in their new Super Degreaser.

WS6
01-21-12, 09:56
My Warren sights on my carry gun used to need an Eezox treatment every month. With FrogLube, they do not.

My guns run well with FrogLube. They clean up easily. I've done more than just run "a few hundred rounds" through my guns using FL.

I am dismayed by the mounting reports of premature wear in conjunction with Froglube. Seeing is believing. I don't mind buying a couple of bolts and running a few hundred rounds and seeing. More and more forums are experiencing people popping up saying "Hey, my such and such is showing wear. My other such and such's didn't show this wear for many more rounds".

If it wears as well/better than Weaponshield? Well I might convert to it. I want to see it. I will of course post up and let you say "I told you so" if it is so.

People make this so emotional when it's not an emotional decision at all, but one based on fact and experience. My experiences with it have been nearly universally negative except that 1: It does clean up like it says and 2: It does stay wet.

Regarding corrosion, it sucks in my experience. However, that is because in all my tests, I let the water set on it. Froglube protects by "beading" water. It is virtually worthless against water that does not sheet off. This means that it will do well on sights that are wiped dry, and very poorly if it is exposed to (layed down on) a wet surface for say, 24 hours or so.

When could that happen? I don't know. Ideally your weapon won't get wet at all, but this world isn't an ideal place. Why settle for second best just because "It's good enough" when you can have the best?

Anyway, I will buy 2 bolts and some XM193 and have a shoot-out with Froglube against whatever else that strikes my fancy. Probably Weapon Shield. I have the time, and would love to do the shooting.

WS6
01-21-12, 09:58
Did anyone see FrogLube at ShotShow? Im interested in their new Super Degreaser.

Same here. A de-greaser that is non-toxic would be VERY nice.

WS6
01-21-12, 10:40
Calling someone a liar is pretty damn strong IMHO. Someone is working hard for induction into the "Hall of Shame" here. I think it's against forum rules to call fellow members "Liars". I believe everyone has the right to their opinion, but calling fellow Brothers Liars is way too much. Agree to disagree and go get a group hug somewhere else. In case the poster removes this post.That is all !

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
So odd how my results from training classes are direct opposites of yours. On with your crusade against Froglube!
Plenty of lubes have made it through training classes. I just hate snake oil and this stuff smacks of it. Bunch of emotion, no facts, militec-1 part dos.

The only thing I like are the physical properties of it stayingset, etc. However, when tested on stress or wear machines, it fails fast
I wish it did all the liars who sell it claim, but every time I try to test a claim, it falls way short. Such as rust prevention. Very poor. Now I am going to see how it does on wear with a rifle.
__________________


You will note that I DID NOT say that "all the sellers of froglube are liars". I said "all the liars who sell it". There is a fine and exacting distinction, and I worded my rebuke of those who lie about their products in such a way as to make that distinction, as I refuse to call a man a liar unless I can unequivocally show it.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6612372&postcount=150

According to FrogLube, the 4 ball test allows for a set maximum pressure to applied to the balls for a set period. At the end of the period there was no scarring on the balls.

If UTV Tactical is a member here, then would that they show that they have been falsely accused of spreading lies either told by "Froglube" to them, or fabricated by them directly.

Don't worry about me removing or editing that post. I meant what I said and said exactly what I meant. Some of the people selling Froglube are flat-out liars, and I do not like the liars that are selling it.

The honest people? More power to them, like you said, agree to disagree on "Favorite lube", but when fiction is presented as fact, that is another matter entirely.

To clarify, I have not, and have no right to call anyone thus-far that I have seen posting in this thread a liar.

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 10:53
I am dismayed by the mounting reports of premature wear in conjunction with Froglube.

I sincerely doubt it. "Chaffing furiously" is probably more apt. Folks need a hobby.

I'm close to 5k rounds through my G19 with no cleaning and only one initial application of FL. I'll be cleaning it sooner or later and taking macro pics.

WS6
01-21-12, 10:56
I sincerely doubt it. "Chaffing furiously" is probably more apt. Folks need a hobby.

I'm close to 5k rounds through my G19 with no cleaning and only one initial application of FL. I'll be cleaning it sooner or later and taking macro pics.

The G19 used QPQ. I would suspect it wouldnt matter much. The reports I am seeing are on SIG's and the like with aluminum frames.


So after hearing so much hype about froglube i decided to pull the trigger and try some on my sig p229. I purchased a 4oz Froglube CLP liquid from www.botachtactical.com. I had decided to purchased it after receiving a reply email conformation from Froglube customer service regarding if the liquid form is the same as the paste and would have to be applied the same as the paste. After receiving the FL I proceeded with the disassembling and cleaning with isopropyl alcohol 91%. Began to heat the parts with a heat gun and applied FL and allowed to cool for an hour, wiped off and reheated and applied / wipe again the second time.

I had then decided to go shooting the following day to our local range ( the desert Razz )and put 300 rounds through it. Prior to shooting I applied a drop on both sides of the rail and all over the barrel, then racked the slide about 5-7 times. While shooting everything ran smooth and felt fine.

So here is the kicker... went home wiped down the gun most of the carbon came out with one wipe. Applied frog lube again ( heated/ apply/ wipe ) no more carbon was out. Among inspection for wear I have found these distinctive wear marks which never occurred before with such little round count. Prior to using froglube I've been using slip2000 30 weight (I'M NOT AFFILIATED WITH FL OR SLIP2000 BY ANY MEANS...) and have no problems at all and showed normal wear with slip2k... The wear from FL can be seen by the super polished/ shiny areas shown. FL just isn't the product for me.. it works great as a cleaner but not as a lube.... Even as a cleaner it isn't all that great though... First patch after soaking the barrel in FL came out pretty dirty, second patch came out clean; used a soaked patch of hoppes #9 patch came out dirty... and the time to heat/ apply/ & wipe just takes too long.

All in all, i'm just going to stick to the products i've been using... not going to try these all in one solutions.. :/.. if you guys want to try it by all means its your money Smile, this is just my 2cent opinion.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r190/tsunami105/2012-01-05005726.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r190/tsunami105/2012-01-05005627.jpg

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 11:07
No data of your own, quoting someone else's without a control. Got it.

What's funny is that you bitch and whine about FL's marketing yet mention using WeaponShield. Do you believe WS's marketing claims regarding automotive engines?

WS6
01-21-12, 11:10
No data of your own, quoting someone else's without a control. Got it.

What's funny is that you bitch and whine about FL's marketing yet mention using WeaponShield. Do you believe WS's marketing claims regarding automotive engines?

I don't know said claims, nor do I put it in my engine. I tried froglube and it didn't work so well for me. However, I am going to do my OWN wear test.

I decided to use cam-pins instead of bolts, though, as I feel a cam-pin will show more wear/quicker, and be a better test-subject. It is also obviously cheaper to procure 2 new cam-pins than 2 new bolts.

If my Froglubed Cam-pin shows less wear than my Weapon-shield cam-pin, I will switch over to it. Even if it shows EQUAL wear, I will switch. I love the non-toxic idea, and it smells nice and stays put.

Fair?

Oh, I will also admit to being a stubborn ass.

If my cam-pin lubed with WS shows less wear, do you promise not to make some wierd accusation about the length of time I used a hair-drier on the frog-lubed cam-pin? Or some other random little step that somehow queered the deal for Froglube? That seems to be the battle-cry of the Frog-lubers I have met "Oh, you only heated it to 140*, it needs 150*, but you may have also gone over 150* and to 175* and melted it all off" and other such. I have not heard that from you, but just saying that is what everyone else seems to say when Froglube performs poorly in my tests. I am sure if and when the Froglube cam-pin shows more wear, more excuses will be made.

But hey, proof/pudding, yeah? I'm down for it.

You think a cam-pin is a fair test subject, or do you have a better item I can buy new and subject to wear that won't cost an arm/leg?

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 11:24
No, I think a firearm is a fair test subject. I don't give a shit about the hair drier as I have never used one for FL application. I've just applied it and carried on.

Let us know how pouring WS into your crankcase goes.

WS6
01-21-12, 11:30
No, I think a firearm is a fair test subject. I don't give a shit about the hair drier as I have never used one for FL application. I've just applied it and carried on.

Let us know how pouring WS into your crankcase goes.

Let us know how using Froglube in your engine goes as well, since one of their most loud-mouth dealers also claims that is a good place for it.


Concerning motor oil, you can run you car with FrogLube as oil, too. It would season into the engine and you can run the car with no additional lubrication. But for now lets get everyone to use it on their firearms.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6542925&postcount=35

Also, I don't own 2 zero round-count weapons to do that with. You're just going to have to poo-poo my cam-pin test and make some claim about how the entire gun needs Froglube instead of just the BCG/Cam-pin and had I lubed the barrel-nut or something it would have worked better somehow.

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 11:33
Let us know how using Froglube in your engine goes as well, since one of their most loud-mouth dealers also claims that is a good place for it.


That is exactly my point regarding BS marketing hype. However, the manufacturer of WS is making that claim about WS and vehicle engines.

Is there not enough righteous, impotent indignation in your heart to mount just one more holy crusade for truth and justice against one more lube manufacturer?

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 11:38
Also, I don't own 2 zero round-count weapons to do that with. You're just going to have to poo-poo my cam-pin test and make some claim about how the entire gun needs Froglube instead of just the BCG/Cam-pin and had I lubed the barrel-nut or something it would have worked better somehow.

No, I don't care that much. I just think you're ****ing pathetic to ignore the people on this forum train hard and use their weapons and cherry pick threads from elsewhere for your stupid little crusade. **** my data, **** Iraqgunz's, **** training data.

I am also of the mindset that wear tests are not a realistic representation of firearm use.

WS6
01-21-12, 11:39
That is exactly my point regarding BS marketing hype. However, the manufacturer of WS is making that claim about WS and vehicle engines.

Is there not enough righteous, impotent indignation in your heart to mount just one more holy crusade for truth and justice against one more lube manufacturer?

Are you talking about "Engine Shield"?
I run Mobil 1 in my LS7 and it gets the job done just fine. However, I do not think that "Engine Shield" would hurt things. That's just a bit expensive for me to test. I am willing to test Froglube's claims on a firearm part, though.

Besides, Steel Shield industries is very forthcoming with information. Froglube is very forthcoming with BS from dealers and "I cannot discuss that, but I can tell you it exceeded our expectations."

You can take the MSDS from Steel Shield, and form your own opinions.

Froglube leaves it up to us to test their product as they are either un-willing, or un-willing to tell us how it did. They won't even publish a full MSDS.

WS6
01-21-12, 11:44
No, I don't care that much. I just think you're ****ing pathetic to ignore the people on this forum train hard and use their weapons and cherry pick threads from elsewhere for your stupid little crusade. **** my data, **** Iraqgunz's, **** training data.

I am also of the mindset that wear tests are not a realistic representation of firearm use.

So what exactly IS representative of firearm use? You don't think that measuring wear on the moving parts of a firearm is a fair testament? I can think of no metal part on an AR that moves further metal/metal under higher pressure than the cam-pin. Yet you think that this is not indicative of performance of a lubricant.


You guys care one bit about wear based on what I can read (Shoot more, buy a new gun when it dies, etc. seems to be Iraqgunz mentality at least), just if the weapon runs or not.

I understand his mentality. His weapon is his life (or death, if it screws up). My weapon is a hobby, as well as life/death, except I will likely never use it to defend myself (hopefully) while Iraqgunz will (at least, from what I can understand based on his claims on this board, which I believe to be factual). So I understand why all he cares about is "Bang...or not bang". I care about that, but also protecting my investment on the square range as well. Different people, different application.

I'm sorry I am not swayed by the internetz as much as you would like, though. I guess I'll just have to be "****ing pathetic". I just know my own experiences with the stuff were very poor.

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 11:57
Yup, I am wound up with my "internetz" real life friends that I've trained with. I've lost count of the folks on here I've trained with in real life.

WS6
01-21-12, 12:01
Yup, I am wound up with my "internetz" real life friends that I've trained with. I've lost count of the folks on here I've trained with in real life.

All of them now use Froglube?

williejc
01-21-12, 12:42
A reference has been made to Iraqguntz and his "mentality", and then the phrase "his claims" has been used. This choice of words is not appropriate or quite right for the Frog Lube distributor from Arizona. Do I sense a hint of disrespect or lack of respect when referring to Iraqguntz and other experienced persons on the forum?

Now I want to add my .02 about Frog Lube. I don't give a shit one way or another, and when I exhause my supply of WW2 gun oil, I might try some.

DBR
01-21-12, 12:43
Here's an example of how the Canadian Government tested lubes for its pistols. The test was for low temperature properties but the protocol gives an idea of what they thought was important.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2008/ps-sp/PS63-2-1997-1E.pdf

thei3ug
01-21-12, 12:44
You are taking people's SUBJECTIVE experiences and claiming they are evidence.

So a guy makes a big change, then notices wear, and immediately attributes the wear to the change. There's no evidence that there is a correlation. None. And this is coming from a guy who appreciates your skepticism.

The best way to prevent wear is not to shoot. Makes sense to me. Barring that, products have a typical finite lifespan. Preventative maintenance is not going to change that, and I have not seen ANY credible evidence that froglube significantly increases or decreases wear over other competitive products. You know what you have to do, you know how much money it costs. Showing photos with no record, no contrast, only the takers WORD that the wear magically appeared is no evidence at all. It's just as big a joke as the people you claim to refute.

People are horrible test instruments. They only notice what they're looking for at the time. That's why we have objective lab tests, to study what actually happened. I don't see any, so I don't get why you keep arguing.

extrication
01-21-12, 15:25
Please post a picture of the bolt and rails and sides of the gas key of the carrier if you don't mind? I am curious as to wear at this point. I stopped using Fl after 60 rounds and now have about 300 through my rifle, too, and want to see a comparison.

For a guy like you that appears to have a mild pysch issue, no I will not take the time to post pictures. I like Frog Lube and will continue to use it. Your rabid and stealth marketing of another product is scary. I already skip your posts for good cause.

extrication
01-21-12, 15:57
What weapons are you shooting corrosive ammo through? How do you define "deferred maintenance" for weapons?

I'm not shooting corrosive ammo, just referring to any material that may be corrosive. Rain is the most prevalent. This leads to what is "deferred maintenance". Picture storing a wet rifle in a case for a while. You deferred maintenance and earned a rusted hulk of metal. When I store a weapon in Florida, it's clean and well coated with a material I'm confident will protect it from the humidity. In the desert, I'm "less interested" in constant maintenance and protection. Long term, all my weapons receive the same treatment, just on a different schedule based on use and conditions. I won't defer past the point of potential damage. And I'll never store my weapons in salt water like WS6 tests for. When my weapons are exposed to salt water, they're flushed with ALOT of clean water ASAP and cleaned ASAP. I can't imagine I do things much different than anyone else. I view my weapons as expensive tools and potential investments, just like my cars and trucks. Since this is a Frog Lube thread I will reiterate that the product has worked well in limited use. I'm impressed with the lubrication, protection and ease of maintenance. If it fails, I'll share the info immediately.

WS6
01-21-12, 18:33
You are taking people's SUBJECTIVE experiences and claiming they are evidence.

So a guy makes a big change, then notices wear, and immediately attributes the wear to the change. There's no evidence that there is a correlation. None. And this is coming from a guy who appreciates your skepticism.

The best way to prevent wear is not to shoot. Makes sense to me. Barring that, products have a typical finite lifespan. Preventative maintenance is not going to change that, and I have not seen ANY credible evidence that froglube significantly increases or decreases wear over other competitive products. You know what you have to do, you know how much money it costs. Showing photos with no record, no contrast, only the takers WORD that the wear magically appeared is no evidence at all. It's just as big a joke as the people you claim to refute.

People are horrible test instruments. They only notice what they're looking for at the time. That's why we have objective lab tests, to study what actually happened. I don't see any, so I don't get why you keep arguing.

I agree. I used Froglube on my AR and noticed what I considered a lot of wear. However, it was the FIRST lube I ever used on it. I don't know if it was normal break-in wear or not. I just know switching to LaRue MG Lube and later Weapon-Shield has prevented any more wear. However, I was skeptical of FL and that could have colored my view of normal break-in wear.


A reference has been made to Iraqguntz and his "mentality", and then the phrase "his claims" has been used. This choice of words is not appropriate or quite right for the Frog Lube distributor from Arizona. Do I sense a hint of disrespect or lack of respect when referring to Iraqguntz and other experienced persons on the forum?

Now I want to add my .02 about Frog Lube. I don't give a shit one way or another, and when I exhause my supply of WW2 gun oil, I might try some.

No, you catch a hint of "I am not a professional soldier and my rifle is not in my hands/by my person at all times but rather somewhere easily accessible in my home. Protection of my AR is just as important as reliability, whereas with Iraqgunz, reliability > anything else, based on his posts, and understandably so."

Not everyone has the same priorities. Not everyone is the same person in the same line of work.

Too much "touchy-feely" in this thread. Iraqgunz, I am sure, is fully capable of taking up for himself if he feels someone has disrespected him in any way.




For a guy like you that appears to have a mild pysch issue, no I will not take the time to post pictures. I like Frog Lube and will continue to use it. Your rabid and stealth marketing of another product is scary. I already skip your posts for good cause.

A product WITH NO TECHNICAL DATA from the manufacturer sold purely on EMOTIONAL and ANECDOTAL claims comes out with the same promises as Militec-1 for the most part (Use a hair-drier, superior corrosion resistance, superior performance in dusty environments, seeps into metal pores, etc. etc.) and I distrust it, especially when they plant a person on most forums to rabidly market it and their dealers resort to fabrication of things as well as insulting those who don't use their product and I have a psych issue? Really?

I actually own Froglube product, ran it on my weapon, met with poor results. Other people have not. So I want objective data. None is available. SO instantly MY experiences on my own weapon are invalidated and I am "****ing pathetic" for not disregarding my experiences and accepting someone else's as more pertinent to myself, and now I have a psych issue because of it? Maybe mild irritation.

PS. I'm not, nor have I ever "marketed" (or even..."stealth marketed") anything. I simply chose a decent petroleum-based lube. I have used CLP, TW25B, and LaRue MG lube as well and they work just fine. I would recommend them just as much as weapon-shield. No stock in any of these companies, only the protection of my weapons.

Univibe
01-21-12, 18:46
Serious question:

What do any of these exotic and expensive AR lubes do that Breakfree LP and CLP don't do?

WS6
01-21-12, 18:54
Serious question:

What do any of these exotic and expensive AR lubes do that Breakfree LP and CLP don't do?

Well, I have used LP and CLP. THey protect VERY WELL from corrosion and my AR's have never jammed using them. Les Baer actually recommends CLP as the lube of choice for their pistols. SIG has recommended first Militec-1, then TW-25B, and now, as I understand it, Froglube.

SLIP2000 and others have been tested to have higher load-bearing capabilities, decreased wear, less tendency to evaporate off in heat, and in the case of froglube, some actually do seem to prevent carbon build-up.

LP and CLP are certainly adequate, but there are "better" choices.

Threads like this are an attempt to 1: Promote what you yourself are using and 2: assist the community in select a better product than they are currently using and/or validate one's feelings/findings.

WS6
01-21-12, 19:06
I'm not shooting corrosive ammo, just referring to any material that may be corrosive. Rain is the most prevalent. This leads to what is "deferred maintenance". Picture storing a wet rifle in a case for a while. You deferred maintenance and earned a rusted hulk of metal. When I store a weapon in Florida, it's clean and well coated with a material I'm confident will protect it from the humidity. In the desert, I'm "less interested" in constant maintenance and protection. Long term, all my weapons receive the same treatment, just on a different schedule based on use and conditions. I won't defer past the point of potential damage. And I'll never store my weapons in salt water like WS6 tests for. When my weapons are exposed to salt water, they're flushed with ALOT of clean water ASAP and cleaned ASAP. I can't imagine I do things much different than anyone else. I view my weapons as expensive tools and potential investments, just like my cars and trucks. Since this is a Frog Lube thread I will reiterate that the product has worked well in limited use. I'm impressed with the lubrication, protection and ease of maintenance. If it fails, I'll share the info immediately.

Here is how Froglube does with "deferred maintenance" for one user (PDF page 8 of 10). He was told it causes rust formation that would remain undetected by other CLP's to be "brought to the surface" so it can be wiped off.

http://tacticalimmersion.com/FrogLubeReviewTacticalImmersion.pdf

My opinion? Froglube has proven (as you noted) to me that it doesn't do so hot in a saline environment. The individual grabbed the top left/front of the slide to rack it. The saline/acid content of his sweat caused the poorly protected metal to rust when he left it unattended for a few days. He then wiped it down, it came off, he has not touched it--it has not rusted.

Anyway, this is why I test for ability to protect from a saline environment. I have very acidic/salty sweat and have rusted stainless in fingerprint patterns overnight before.

skullworks
01-21-12, 22:35
They won't even publish a full MSDS.
What do you mean?



Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

WS6
01-21-12, 23:00
What do you mean?



Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Very little info is on it. Flash point of the liquid and its sg. Lots of not determined.

The paste msds contains only the information that it can be thrown in the trash and is "stable".

a0cake
01-21-12, 23:15
For anyone moved by these accounts of increased wear after switching to FL, I suggest you research the following:

- "Post hoc ergo propter hoc"
- The difference between correlation and causation.

There are a lot of fundamentally flawed conclusions being drawn from equally flawed anecdotal evidence here.

I'm not saying with certainty that FL does or does not prevent wear adequately. Without proper methodology and specialized equipment, none of us can answer that question unequivocally based on experience. What I AM saying is that from a scientific and honest perspective, the answer cannot be derived from anything I've seen thus far in this thread.

WS6
01-21-12, 23:35
For anyone moved by these accounts of increased wear after switching to FL, I suggest you research the following:

- "Post hoc ergo propter hoc"
- The difference between correlation and causation.

There are a lot of fundamentally flawed conclusions being drawn from equally flawed anecdotal evidence here.

I'm not saying with certainty that FL does or does not prevent wear adequately. Without proper methodology and specialized equipment, none of us can answer that question unequivocally based on experience. What I AM saying is that from a scientific and honest perspective, the answer cannot be derived from anything I've seen thus far in this thread. that is what frustrates me. No real data exists for this product that I am aware of. Love the physical properties , just not sure about how well it works to preserve my firearms. I see antecdotal evidence both ways. Lack of willingness to support with non biased data ones product and rather rely on emotion and testimony just never has worked for me. I think the only reason it worked this time and not for trillium solutions last product is that Lasky was a better known SEAL with more influence that the guy Trillium chose for their SEAL-1 product.

a0cake
01-21-12, 23:41
that is what frustrates me. No real data exists for this product that I am aware of. Love the physical properties, just not sure about how well it works to preserve my firearms. I see antecdotal evidence both ways.

My own personal experience says that it prevents wear as well as all the other commonly used lubricants. I am a FL user. It works well for my purposes.

It's going to either coming down to an actual experiment that adheres to the scientific method, or on people trying it and making their own determinations for their own uses.

Until a proper test is done with proper equipment, all we're doing is spinning our wheels here and proving nothing.

At some point all this talk becomes useless and you just have to make a decision. Use it or don't.

darr3239
01-22-12, 00:12
After experiencing some of Gunz' Frog Lube first hand, I immediately had the insane, almost uncontrollable desire to brush my teeth with it. It appears to have some quality attributes some other lubes don't.

ra2bach
01-22-12, 01:21
That is exactly my point regarding BS marketing hype. However, the manufacturer of WS is making that claim about WS and vehicle engines.

Is there not enough righteous, impotent indignation in your heart to mount just one more holy crusade for truth and justice against one more lube manufacturer?

I honestly don't want to get in the middle of a lover's quarrel but claiming the maker of WS says to use it in auto engines is not factually correct.

the product they are using in auto applications is another product called Engine shield which predated Weapon Shield.

is it the same stuff with a different label? maybe...

is it just a way of cross-marketing the same product without changing the formulation? I don't know but if you're getting your opinion from the thread here when the maker came on and was discussing it's auto uses, then that product was identified as Steel Shield and it's application was discussed.

he said the "technology" from that product was also present in Weapon Shield - he never said use Weapon Shield in your car....

WS6
01-22-12, 03:08
I honestly don't want to get in the middle of a lover's quarrel but claiming the maker of WS says to use it in auto engines is not factually correct.

the product they are using in auto applications is another product called Engine shield which predated Weapon Shield.

is it the same stuff with a different label? maybe...

is it just a way of cross-marketing the same product without changing the formulation? I don't know but if you're getting your opinion from the thread here when the maker came on and was discussing it's auto uses, then that product was identified as Steel Shield and it's application was discussed.

he said the "technology" from that product was also present in Weapon Shield - he never said use Weapon Shield in your car....
Mr Fennel is readily available for discussion and is a professional tribologist. He has never told me "I can't discuss that." Or anything of the sort.

Mr. Laskey on the other hand is not a tribologist and refuses to discuss much about how his product performs in tests he claims were done.

I would not hand a tribologist an m4 and send him to hunt down a SEAL, and at the same time I do not believe a SEAL given a lab will create an award winning lubricant. Unfortunately, Mr. Laskey refuses to discuss Trillium, so I wonder if Trillium will discuss Froglube.

Aside from all the marketing crap, the product still interests me for reasons I have stated before, and I agree there is strong merit to iraqgunz and others uses of it. I will give it another go and see what I see.

Blankwaffe
01-22-12, 03:58
No data of your own, quoting someone else's without a control. Got it.

What's funny is that you bitch and whine about FL's marketing yet mention using WeaponShield. Do you believe WS's marketing claims regarding automotive engines?


No, I think a firearm is a fair test subject. I don't give a shit about the hair drier as I have never used one for FL application. I've just applied it and carried on.

Let us know how pouring WS into your crankcase goes.


That is exactly my point regarding BS marketing hype. However, the manufacturer of WS is making that claim about WS and vehicle engines.

Is there not enough righteous, impotent indignation in your heart to mount just one more holy crusade for truth and justice against one more lube manufacturer?

Gota link to the WS in engines claim?

Littlelebowski
01-22-12, 09:33
Gota link to the WS in engines claim?

http://www.steelshieldtech.com/mainpage/retail-product-engine-shield.html

Guys, I'm no longer trying to rationalize with WS6's weird obsession. I put him on ignore. I'll probably unsubscribe to this thread.

Came to this realization when I went to the range and had dinner yesterday and he was still on here when I got back.

Paladin801
01-22-12, 09:48
Saw the same here Littlelebowski. At first, I thought it was a bot, but have realized it to be a troll. By his own admission,

"Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
As a rough example, visualize inserting a 60 mm mortar shell in the rectum and detonating it and you will begin to get a sense of this...". Be sure and use weaponshield for lubrication purposes. I'd hate to see the current supply of FrogLube dwindle so much because I'm sure it would take too much to lube before insertion. That is all !

WS6
01-22-12, 11:51
Oh well, trying FL one more time for myself. Being right and looking cool with insults aren't as important to me as using the best tool for the job, so if FL works out, I'll happily continue with it and post up about such. I guess I will end up in the same camp Bowskie is in if it works...I doubted but now I use, but I have no data to back my decisions save experience. Some drugs are like that, though, no FDA data to support some side-effects, yet I know they occur because I have seen it over and over, so it does have merit in my world, too.

I do think I screwed up last time and applied it way too thick, going to give it another go.

One thing that keeps impressing me about the stuff is that I can put it in my oven at 550*F and it just sits there, turns SLIGHTLY amber, does NOT smoke off, and when I shut the oven off, it gels back. I have never had anything else perform like that. Even Sprinco MGL, which is basically 100% PAO Group V with some Moly.

Sorry for being on at night :rolleyes:. I work nights and do have breaks. Some of us wake up when you go to bed, as it were.

Bowskie, every thread I see you in that involves disagreement with your side of the story, you get pretty emotional. I am pretty dead-pan and don't take things on here so seriously except the things I can learn, in general, so you will probably save at least one of us some stress if you put me back on iggy. No offense meant, and none taken. Some people just don't mix so well.

Iraqgunz
01-22-12, 14:00
I would be uber happy if you simply stuck with CLP or something else. This way there is less drama.


Oh well, trying FL one more time for myself. Being right and looking cool with insults aren't as important to me as using the best tool for the job, so if FL works out, I'll happily continue with it and post up about such. I guess I will end up in the same camp Bowskie is in if it works...I doubted but now I use, but I have no data to back my decisions save experience. Some drugs are like that, though, no FDA data to support some side-effects, yet I know they occur because I have seen it over and over, so it does have merit in my world, too.

I do think I screwed up last time and applied it way too thick, going to give it another go.

One thing that keeps impressing me about the stuff is that I can put it in my oven at 550*F and it just sits there, turns SLIGHTLY amber, does NOT smoke off, and when I shut the oven off, it gels back. I have never had anything else perform like that. Even Sprinco MGL, which is basically 100% PAO Group V with some Moly.

Sorry for being on at night :rolleyes:. I work nights and do have breaks. Some of us wake up when you go to bed, as it were.

Bowskie, every thread I see you in that involves disagreement with your side of the story, you get pretty emotional. I am pretty dead-pan and don't take things on here so seriously except the things I can learn, in general, so you will probably save at least one of us some stress if you put me back on iggy. No offense meant, and none taken. Some people just don't mix so well.

ralph
01-22-12, 14:10
Frankly IG, I'm suprised you haven't dropped the hammer on this thread by now..:D

skullworks
01-22-12, 17:09
Very little info is on it. Flash point of the liquid and its sg. Lots of not determined.

The paste msds contains only the information that it can be thrown in the trash and is "stable".
Are you smoking crack or just trash-talking a competing product? Flash point for the liquid is >482F - says so right there in the MSDS (MSDS for liquid (http://froglube.com/docs/Frog%20Lube%20Liquid%20MSDS%203-25-10.pdf) and MSDS for paste (http://froglube.com/docs/Frog%20Lube%20Paste%20MSDS%203-26-10.pdf)). I also think you confuse "n/a" as in "not applicable" (which is what is being listed in the FrogLube MSDS) with "n/a" as in "not available". "Not available" would indicate that something was not available for testing, whereas "not applicable" in this case means it is not applicable to test for carcinogens etc in an USDA-approved food grade product (as the product wouldn't have received USDA approval if it did contain such substances).

WS6, is that "code" for six different Weapon Shield employees working shifts to trash talk the competition or something?

Blankwaffe
01-22-12, 17:16
http://www.steelshieldtech.com/mainpage/retail-product-engine-shield.html

Guys, I'm no longer trying to rationalize with WS6's weird obsession. I put him on ignore. I'll probably unsubscribe to this thread.

Came to this realization when I went to the range and had dinner yesterday and he was still on here when I got back.

According to your post I thought maybe gcfennell had actually made the statement in one of his postings,rather than a speculation in regards to product line.

As stated previously two different products based on Steel Shields ABF,which is clearly outlined in the product data sheets.Much the same as alot of manufacturers who have specific purpose product lines and linked technology.
All I can say is Ive used both in their intended applications and can only say they are not the same.Smell different,and at different price points too.

Otherwise gcfennell is a member here and will have to answer to the accusations of relabled products etc. as a professional,and as a representative of his company.

ETA
Also if a MSDS is the question,this has been discussed before on other forums,and about other products as well, which primarily deals with section II listing common chemical groups dealing specifically with material safety,handling,exposure and disposal.
Otherwise specific formula's of most products are typically not specified in detail as they are proprietary and held secret from competitive products.
And that pertains to the Frog as well.

WS6
01-22-12, 18:52
Are you smoking crack or just trash-talking a competing product? Flash point for the liquid is >482F - says so right there in the MSDS (MSDS for liquid (http://froglube.com/docs/Frog%20Lube%20Liquid%20MSDS%203-25-10.pdf) and MSDS for paste (http://froglube.com/docs/Frog%20Lube%20Paste%20MSDS%203-26-10.pdf)). I also think you confuse "n/a" as in "not applicable" (which is what is being listed in the FrogLube MSDS) with "n/a" as in "not available". "Not available" would indicate that something was not available for testing, whereas "not applicable" in this case means it is not applicable to test for carcinogens etc in an USDA-approved food grade product (as the product wouldn't have received USDA approval if it did contain such substances).

WS6, is that "code" for six different Weapon Shield employees working shifts to trash talk the competition or something?
Competing product with what? Every other lubricant out there?
No Flash-point for the paste was given, but in my oven it went up to an un-calibrated 550*F without any sign of distress, which is more impressive than anything else I have seen.
WS.6 was the car I drove in college. Now it's a Z06. I like the 3-character number/letter deal GM has going on :)

WS6
01-22-12, 18:58
Frankly IG, I'm suprised you haven't dropped the hammer on this thread by now..:D

Why, because someone is questioning something that he is not? It's called debate/discussion, and this is in "General Discussion". It's the right topic, in the right section, and if you find it boring/in poor taste/whatever the case, you don't have to read or contribute to it.

This shouldn't be like TOS where people cannot disagree without acting like children and calling names/whining/etc.



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Lets see...

I called a non-member a "liar" and then supported my statement. Other than that statement, which appears to be self-evidently accurate and well supported...

punkey71
01-22-12, 19:27
That's because only liquids have flash points. *There are some very rare exceptions to that but they are well outside the scope of this discussion.

Flash pont is the temperature to which a liquid needs to be heated to give off sufficient vapors to support combustion. Gases and solids do not have flash points becasue they are not liquids.


Competing product with what? Every other lubricant out there?
No Flash-point for the paste was given, but in my oven it went up to an un-calibrated 550*F without any sign of distress, which is more impressive than anything else I have seen.
WS.6 was the car I drove in college. Now it's a Z06. I like the 3-character number/letter deal GM has going on :)

WS6
01-22-12, 22:38
That's because only liquids have flash points. *There are some very rare exceptions to that but they are well outside the scope of this discussion.

Flash pont is the temperature to which a liquid needs to be heated to give off sufficient vapors to support combustion. Gases and solids do not have flash points becasue they are not liquids.

The paste is a liquid at operating temperature. I did hear utv claims 700f. I actually believe it might be true, too. At 550* in my oven, it was unphased.

I have seen a few pix now of aluminum frame sigs run with it that look no worse for the wear and am giving it another go. My ssa trigger feels at least as good with Fl as it did with weapon shield, but no rounds down range yet.

punkey71
01-22-12, 23:25
There is no such thing as "operating temperature" as far as MSDS is concerned. The state of the product as stored is all that matters. It doesn't matter if you plan to heat it, cool it or smear it all over your body. It's a paste while it's sitting on the shelf....period.

When you heat the paste it becomes...wait for it.....a LIQUID. Which an MSDS already exists for and lists a flash point.


The paste is a liquid at operating temperature. I did hear utv claims 700f. I actually believe it might be true, too. At 550* in my oven, it was unphased.

I have seen a few pix now of aluminum frame sigs run with it that look no worse for the wear and am giving it another go. My ssa trigger feels at least as good with Fl as it did with weapon shield, but no rounds down range yet.

WS6
01-22-12, 23:37
There is no such thing as "operating temperature" as far as MSDS is concerned. The state of the product as stored is all that matters. It doesn't matter if you plan to heat it, cool it or smear it all over your body. It's a paste while it's sitting on the shelf....period.

When you heat the paste it becomes...wait for it.....a LIQUID. Which an MSDS already exists for and lists a flash point.

Laskey told me the two are chemically different. I don't know the technical what for about whether msds data for a flash point is indicated to test for. Thanks for the info.

tdoom15
01-22-12, 23:37
Brand new DD BCG after 350 rounds of xm193 using FL...I never paid attention to what my other rifle's BCG looked like at this point, so someone who knows more what the wear should look like at this point can chime in. Process and application of FL in my above posts.

Before and after wipe down.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03574.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03577.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03580.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03581.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03582.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03583.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03584.jpg

ETA:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03586.jpg

WS6
01-23-12, 00:17
Thanks! Very similar to my noveske with similar count using clp and weapon shield for all but the first 60 rounds. Any pix of the inside of the upper? Looks like Fl is doing fine by the bcg.

ralph
01-23-12, 00:26
Why, because someone is questioning something that he is not? It's called debate/discussion, and this is in "General Discussion". It's the right topic, in the right section, and if you find it boring/in poor taste/whatever the case, you don't have to read or contribute to it.

This shouldn't be like TOS where people cannot disagree without acting like children and calling names/whining/etc.



Lets see...

I called a non-member a "liar" and then supported my statement. Other than that statement, which appears to be self-evidently accurate and well supported...

WS6,I don't believe my last comment in this thread was directed towards you...I don't recall calling you any names or for that matter even addressing you personally. Frankly, I could give a rat's ass less about you, froglube or who's right or wrong....This thread should be locked, as it's gone from a disscussion/debate about the property's of this stuff, to who has the last word.I don't use this stuff, don't know anything about it,(and could care less) but, if you don't like it, don't use it, and drive on, it's that simple..Why waste bandwith trying to convince people that this stuff dosen't work when they are apparently having different results? I mean, give it a break, In the big scheme of things, who really gives a shit?

WS6
01-23-12, 00:35
WS6,I don't believe my last comment in this thread was directed towards you...I don't recall calling you any names or for that matter even addressing you personally. Frankly, I could give a rat's ass less about you, froglube or who's right or wrong....This thread should be locked, as it's gone from a disscussion/debate about the property's of this stuff, to who has the last word.I don't use this stuff, don't know anything about it,(and could care less) but, if you don't like it, don't use it, and drive on, it's that simple..Why waste bandwith trying to convince people that this stuff dosen't work when they are apparently having different results? I mean, give it a break, In the big scheme of things, who really gives a shit?

This thread has just delivered some very relevant pictures showing froglube performing well. I think as long as people can come back to task and drop the one upping, its a good resource. Looking forward to pix of the upper if possible.

If you don't like the thread, disregard it. It's not relevant to you apparently, and that's ok.

garret459
01-23-12, 14:20
So I am new to the m4carbine forum, I'm confused is froglube good or what?
I read the whole thread and have scouted out some other forums and I just keep getting way to many mixed stories.

Apparently it was reproduced from Tracklube, if it keeps the roller coasters moving along yr after yr it should work on guns right?

I do have a question anyone been using it on a stainless steel Handgun like a Sig P220 all stainless for a couple thousand rds yet?

BTW Hi Everyone.

Ya And I hope the thread don't get closed to I am interested getting more info.:D

punkey71
01-23-12, 16:06
Yes, they are chemically different. He is not a liar. Since one, at room temperature is a liquid, and one, at room temperature is a solid, they are in fact chemically different.

Additives can change chemical/physical properties of a substance or can simply suspend them in a different state of matter (carrier). I have no idea what he did, nor do I care.

MSDS sheets are kind of laughable with non-toxic substances (Froglube for example). An MSDS is typically used for a facility storing/using one or more potentially toxic products. Froglube is a plant based, consumable product. You might as well go to the local grocery store and ask for the MSDS for Peter Pan Peanut Butter.

I'm guessing Froglube put one out to satisfy folks like yourself hoping to figure out what it is...an MSDS for FL won't give you the chemical formula for the chemicals used to make the end product (Froglube).

You might as well go to McDonald's and ask for the MSDS for the "special sauce" on the Bic Mac. It ain't gonna happen...it's a non-toxic substance that the McDonalds folks would like to keep secret...kinda like Froglube...I guess.




Laskey told me the two are chemically different. I don't know the technical what for about whether msds data for a flash point is indicated to test for. Thanks for the info.

MrSmitty
01-23-12, 16:17
You might as well go to the local grocery store and ask for the MSDS for Peter Pan Peanut Butter.

I was thinking the same thing, you just said it a lot better!

FWIW, used my new Noveske on Saturday again. 18 degrees F outside and no issues, mix of Federal XM193 and PMC Bronze. The upper only has about 280 rounds through it so far but I haven't noticed any unusual wear. Looks similar to my BCM when the round count was low. No issues chambering the initial round when the paste was cold, operation was smooth, no grit. I like the stuff...

tdoom15
01-23-12, 16:46
To me, verdict is too early to tell. Everything is functioning fine for me right now, I will get some pics of in the inside of the upper tonight when I get home.

I dont blame WS6 for being skeptical as I have always been taught not to just take other people's word for it. And I don't necessarily believe ALL the things I've heard about FL either, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for what I need it to do.

For my handguns though, I will be sticking to weaponshield.

Xylene86
01-23-12, 17:13
I used it last weekend, it was about 14 degrees here it seemed to gum up really bad made things sluggish( not bashing it just about anything will at cold as **** temps)... no ftf or fte's happened but i did notice that the shit finds dirt.. my upper was so damn dirty it was unreal literally looked like i put 1k rounds through it even though i only shot 400ish

WS6
01-23-12, 18:39
I used it last weekend, it was about 14 degrees here it seemed to gum up really bad made things sluggish( not bashing it just about anything will at cold as **** temps)... no ftf or fte's happened but i did notice that the shit finds dirt.. my upper was so damn dirty it was unreal literally looked like i put 1k rounds through it even though i only shot 400ish

By dirt, do you mean carbon? Do you mean that it gunked up and got slow, or PULLED gunk out of the works that other stuff missed?

Slow-fire, or fast enough that it *should* have heated up and melted?

WS6
01-23-12, 18:43
Yes, they are chemically different. He is not a liar. Since one, at room temperature is a liquid, and one, at room temperature is a solid, they are in fact chemically different.

Additives can change chemical/physical properties of a substance or can simply suspend them in a different state of matter (carrier). I have no idea what he did, nor do I care.

MSDS sheets are kind of laughable with non-toxic substances (Froglube for example). An MSDS is typically used for a facility storing/using one or more potentially toxic products. Froglube is a plant based, consumable product. You might as well go to the local grocery store and ask for the MSDS for Peter Pan Peanut Butter.

I'm guessing Froglube put one out to satisfy folks like yourself hoping to figure out what it is...an MSDS for FL won't give you the chemical formula for the chemicals used to make the end product (Froglube).

You might as well go to McDonald's and ask for the MSDS for the "special sauce" on the Bic Mac. It ain't gonna happen...it's a non-toxic substance that the McDonalds folks would like to keep secret...kinda like Froglube...I guess.

According to Mr. Laskey, the paste contains no PAO's while the liquid is something like 50% PAO.

This is why I was so surprised at the paste remaining in such a consistent state at such a high temperature.

sgtjosh
01-23-12, 19:05
I used it last weekend... no ftf or fte's happened but i did notice that the shit finds dirt.. my upper was so damn dirty it was unreal literally looked like i put 1k rounds through it even though i only shot 400ish

That is the point. It traps the fouling and suspends it in the lube rather than letting it adhere to the BCG and other parts. This also aids in clean up...wipe down and re-apply.

WS6
01-23-12, 19:13
That is the point. It traps the fouling and suspends it in the lube rather than letting it adhere to the BCG and other parts. This also aids in clean up...wipe down and re-apply.

From what I hear, yeah.

From what I saw, yeah.

Obviously I'm far from being Froglube's oral jockstrap, but it does every bit of what people/Froglube claim it does in this regard.

StrikerFired
01-23-12, 20:00
Just decided to jump in here, cleaned a Glock down and FL it up. Will put about 500 rounds through it and see how it is holding up after that. Won't clean it or reapply lube until the gun completely gums up and and will try to get a final count through it at the end of the shooting season up here in Michigan ( Around the end of October)

WS6
01-23-12, 21:54
Just decided to jump in here, cleaned a Glock down and FL it up. Will put about 500 rounds through it and see how it is holding up after that. Won't clean it or reapply lube until the gun completely gums up and and will try to get a final count through it at the end of the shooting season up here in Michigan ( Around the end of October)

Having seen 1911's run dry for a thousand rounds, I doubt your lubed glock gums up any time soon.

StrikerFired
01-23-12, 22:23
True, I guess what I need to do is just run the glock until it pukes out on me and give a final round count at the end. I know most quality lubes will go for a while on pistols so this may take a while:)

a0cake
01-23-12, 22:25
True, I guess what I need to do is just run the glock until it pukes out on me and give a final round count at the end. I know most quality lubes will go for a while on pistols so this may take a while:)

And what transferable conclusions do you expect to draw from this?

StrikerFired
01-24-12, 00:08
Transferable to what exactly? Since there are so many variables on one test to another ( wear, factory vs. reloaded ammo, enviromental contaminates, storage practices, ect, ect...) there really isn't much I could pass on, except to further discussion about a product that we seem to be interested in.

tdoom15
01-24-12, 00:21
Inside the upper after 350 rds of xm193, uncleaned. Barely any wear.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03596.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03595.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03594.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03591.jpg

Blankwaffe
01-24-12, 00:22
No offense intended to anyone,as Im just as guilty of participating in the gun lube discussions as anyone else.
But Im truely starting to understand a couple things rob_s pointed out awhile back:


"I personally think that worrying about that kind of stuff is obsessing over a lot of minutia that doesn't really matter. While I'm glad there are basement-dwellers somewhere on the internet to perform all these various tests, I ultimately don't care."

"Discussions of lubrication in ARs are some of the most god-awful boring shit I've ever read. and I am convinced that the discussion is typically at least 75% emotion, hysteria, voodoo, and dogma and maybe 25% science at best. Not to mention that, like most discussions, maybe 2% are actually qualified to have an educated opinion on the subject."

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=36845&highlight=lubrication&page=4

WS6
01-24-12, 00:35
Inside the upper after 350 rds of xm193, uncleaned. Barely any wear.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03596.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03595.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03594.jpg

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/apexdbetta2/DSC03591.jpg
Looks just as good as mine. The only difference is gas key wear on top, and you may well have used your charging handle more than I. It looks like concerns over wear are unfounded on the ar platform, given evidence on hand so far. Thanks!

Xylene86
01-24-12, 02:17
By dirt, do you mean carbon? Do you mean that it gunked up and got slow, or PULLED gunk out of the works that other stuff missed?

Slow-fire, or fast enough that it *should* have heated up and melted?

Fast enought it should have heated up.. we did a few mag dumps to see.. imo its stuff i missed after clean up though it looks 1000x better than it has with anything else..Ill continue using it though the reason it gummed up is cause of the cold.. and it was the paste.. which i may have used too generously..

garret459
01-24-12, 11:27
Hi

Any one heard of SEAL1 it sounds like a product pretty much the same as froglube thats the only reason I brought it up.
From what I hear it is produced by a SEAL that used to be associated with froglube.

Littlelebowski
01-24-12, 11:37
Hi

Any one heard of SEAL1 it sounds like a product pretty much the same as froglube thats the only reason I brought it up.
From what I hear it is produced by a SEAL that used to be associated with froglube.

Astroturfing again. How about being honest? I can guarantee that NO ONE on this site will buy your product because of your dishonest and deceptive actions today. I look forward to you getting banned.

garret459
01-24-12, 11:42
Astroturfing again. How about being honest? I can guarantee that NO ONE on this site will buy your product because of your dishonest and deceptive actions today. I look forward to you getting banned.

What the heck are you talking about?
I seen some one mention this on calguns .net and just asked a simple question.
Just because I'm a new guy don't jump down my throat just because I ask for some input. I'm not selling any of this sh-- or any other sh--.
Why should I be banded I didn't do any thing . If you are that paranoid get off the thread.

JSantoro
01-24-12, 12:05
EDIT: Aha.....ALL of your posts are about this stuff.

Ergo, you're either astroturfing, or of thinking that your question is so burning and urgent in your fevered mind that you need to toss up more than one thread about it....ALSO not allowed....

You just stand by, now, y'hear?

EDIT 2: The latter, it is. Next time, use the Report Post button. The chest-thumping in text really only works if you have all these extra little browser buttons that I see on my screen...

garret459
01-24-12, 12:13
EDIT: Aha.....ALL of your posts are about this stuff.

Ergo, you're either astroturfing, or of thinking that your question is so burning and urgent in your fevered mind that you need to toss up more than one thread about it....ALSO not allowed....

You just stand by, now, y'hear?

All my posts are about this stuff because I just joined the forum and got permission to post. I have not been a member long enough to have many posts. I will wait as you mentioned above.

Blankwaffe
01-24-12, 12:15
What the heck are you talking about?
I seen some one mention this on calguns .net and just asked a simple question.
Just because I'm a new guy don't jump down my throat just because I ask for some input. I'm not selling any of this sh-- or any other sh--.
Why should I be banded I didn't do any thing . If you are that paranoid get off the thread.

Just for your information,that theory has already been explored and debated by alot of the members in this thread.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=93495&highlight=Frog+Lube

HTH

garret459
01-24-12, 12:21
Just for your information,that theory has already been explored and debated by alot of the members in this thread.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=93495&highlight=Frog+Lube

HTH

I wished I would have found that before I posted anything, However I am new to te thread and just did not think about trying to do a search,
It was my understanding that the seal1 stuff was to new to be talked about much. So the thread I started can be canceled sense it's already old news here.

WS6
01-24-12, 12:52
EDIT: Aha.....ALL of your posts are about this stuff.

Ergo, you're either astroturfing, or of thinking that your question is so burning and urgent in your fevered mind that you need to toss up more than one thread about it....ALSO not allowed....

You just stand by, now, y'hear?

EDIT 2: The latter, it is. Next time, use the Report Post button. The chest-thumping in text really only works if you have all these extra little browser buttons that I see on my screen...

I'm tired as hell a little down (friend and former co-worker passed away the other day. 37.), but this got a grin from me, thanks.

WS6
01-31-12, 09:44
Well, here is how Froglube Paste handles heat compared to LaRue MG Lube and Steelshield Weaponshield CLP.

Please forgive my amateur video skills and lack of a calibrated hot-plate, etc. but I think the results are pretty clear-cut.

http://youtu.be/e3dAsxzJlug

Please give it time to up-load before spamming "bad link". I am stepping out for a bit and left this on auto-pilot. Should up up in another 20 minutes or so.

SIMBA-LEE
01-31-12, 11:22
That was interesting.

WS6
01-31-12, 11:47
Since my stove is not calibrated very well, I know there can be hot/cold spots on the coil...so I re-arranged things a bit to see if they were just in hot spots.

Well, not really. Same results except the other two flashing made the FL erupt into flame a bit sooner, but it clearly catches last and burns off CLEAN.

http://youtu.be/Idg4TcWIzjo

Dsm2nr
01-31-12, 13:02
Interesting that it burns off clean. But other than that it doesn't show much of anything.

You could've used an IR thermometer and come away with maybe some useful info. But then you'd also need to go mag dump 10 mags to see how hot it gets and to see if the friction and cooling from the bcg fanning the chamber had an effect on each lube. So that's 30 mag dumps, 3 cleanings, IR thermometer and high def video'd tests with unbiased observations.

WS6
01-31-12, 13:16
Interesting that it burns off clean. But other than that it doesn't show much of anything.

You could've used an IR thermometer and come away with maybe some useful info. But then you'd also need to go mag dump 10 mags to see how hot it gets and to see if the friction and cooling from the bcg fanning the chamber had an effect on each lube. So that's 30 mag dumps, 3 cleanings, IR thermometer and high def video'd tests with unbiased observations.

How about this. I fired around 100 rounds the other day using Weaponshield CLP as the lubricant. The tail of the bolt was CAKED with carbon and required a good mechanical scrubbing.

Today I am going to fire 100+ rounds using Froglube. Will report back.

Dsm2nr
01-31-12, 13:26
That is not relevant to your prior test. Caked carbon comes from the powder in the ammo. This means that one lube is stickier than the other.

And 100 rounds doesn't mean anything. If you didn't do mag dumps and were slow firing the whole time it changes temperatures and thus how different lubes will react. If there's any change in firing speed the test is flawed. If you mag dumped, waited long enough for the lube to cool and dumped another mag, this will cause more carbon caking than all mag dumps.

If you're testing extreme heat properties, they need to be heated the exact same way to the exact same temperature (which means IR thermo.). And to get anywhere near where you were on the stove I would suspect would take 10+ mag dumps (which is why I said 10).

And you also need proof other than your word (video).

Sounds to me like you don't know what you're testing. You're just trying to play around and use it as an excuse to justify what you're using. Not trying to find real answers.

WS6
01-31-12, 13:36
That is not relevant to your prior test. Caked carbon comes from the powder in the ammo. This means that one lube is stickier than the other.

And 100 rounds doesn't mean anything. If you didn't do mag dumps and were slow firing the whole time it changes temperatures and thus how different lubes will react. If there's any change in firing speed the test is flawed. If you mag dumped, waited long enough for the lube to cool and dumped another mag, this will cause more carbon caking than all mag dumps.

If you're testing extreme heat properties, they need to be heated the exact same way to the exact same temperature (which means IR thermo.). And to get anywhere near where you were on the stove I would suspect would take 10+ mag dumps (which is why I said 10).

And you also need proof other than your word (video).

Sounds to me like you don't know what you're testing. You're just trying to play around and use it as an excuse to justify what you're using. Not trying to find real answers.

The two tests may not correlate, but if one lube leaves me with a bunch of scraping to do, and one doesn't, what have I learned?

One cleans up easier. Yes?

The 100 rounds with the WS was all slow-fire.

I'm not trying to "justify" using Froglube. I have no association with them other than having bought some. Further, I certainly have not been one of their "fans", so to speak. However, if the product is G2G...it's G2G.

MrSmitty
01-31-12, 16:13
Ugh...this thread is finally to the point where I'm tired of receiving notifications about it...too many people nitpicking this that and the other thing about this lube or about this test or that test. There are members on here that have put this lube to the test on hard use carbines and EDC pistols and it has given them good results. I've used it for a short period of time and I've seen results that are acceptable to me and no worse than the SLIP 2000 that I've been using.

If it works for you, then use it. If it doesn't, stick with whatever you've been using.

Hitech50
01-31-12, 16:35
... There are members on here that have put this lube to the test on hard use carbines and EDC pistols and it has given them good results. I've used it for a short period of time and I've seen results that are acceptable to me and no worse than the SLIP 2000 that I've been using.

If it works for you, then use it. If it doesn't, stick with whatever you've been using.

I haven't had too much of a chance to put some frog lube through hard use, but I gave a local gun store/indoor range a sample that I had and asked them if they wanted to test it out. According to them they used it on the guns they rent out and thought it worked great. I would imagine gun range rentals see their fair share of abuse. for the record I have no affiliation with FL, I just got some free samples and shared one with them.




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