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View Full Version : New ammo from Winchester: PDX1 "Defender" split-core ammo



Zhukov
08-21-11, 15:56
http://winchesterproductdemos.winchester.com/PDX1%20Defender.html#/Home

Basically, this appears to be a 60gr HP design with the front half of the lead core non-bonded, and the rear half of the core bonded to the jacket. It's somewhat reminiscent of a partition design, and on paper should perform pretty well. Fragmentation from the front, then sufficient penetration by the bonded remnant. The big question would be in regards to barrier penetration.

The muzzle velocity is listed as 2750fps, which is a bit on the low side for a 60gr bullet.

I'm sure the DocGKR has already heard about this - any comments on this ammo, Dr Roberts?

VelveteenMole
08-22-11, 02:22
http://winchesterproductdemos.winchester.com/PDX1%20Defender.html#/Home

Basically, this appears to be a 60gr HP design with the front half of the lead core non-bonded, and the rear half of the core bonded to the jacket. It's somewhat reminiscent of a partition design, and on paper should perform pretty well. Fragmentation from the front, then sufficient penetration by the bonded remnant. The big question would be in regard to barrier penetration.

The muzzle velocity is listed as 2750fps, which is a bit on the low side for a 60gr bullet.

I'm sure the DocGKR has already heard about this - any comments on this ammo, Dr Roberts?

I'm curious to see the penetration figures, but the philosophy looks sound as far as optimizing the rate and depth of energy transfer (relax, Zhukov-- I just mean for functional damage due to it being at rifle velocities with fragments to weaken the stretched tissue, resulting in permanent radial damage ;)) while retaining penetration. It'll certainly be interesting to see how it performs through auto-glass for LE applications. I don't think it will hold any advantages over 75gr TAP for home defense/entry at short ranges though.

I've actually been wondering recently about the feasibility and functional potential of partially bonded bullets. I'm excited about this as a proof of concept as it suggests quite a bit of "tuning" would be possible.

One of the things that got me thinking was when I noticed that the PDX/Ranger Bonded pistol bullets are a fully bonded, and perhaps otherwise re-tuned, SXT or T-series design, but the talons stay embedded in the lead of the expanded petals. What I was wondering is if they could take the T-series bullets and bond them only on the outside jacket, but not into the cavity area where the talons are tucked. Presumably it would be a matter of limiting application of flux to certain areas of the jacket material during manufacture.

If they could do this, they could create a bonded bullet that would still fully expose the long, T-series talons when expanded. No more tradeoffs... besides price, perhaps, but consolidating the Ranger line would have a cost advantage.

EDIT: In-fact, I would think that the adhered lead on the expanded petals would reinforce the jacket material, thus helping to prevent the talons from curling back behind the lead and out of the path of tissue as seems to often happen with the Ranger-T.

Thoughts?

tpd223
08-24-11, 21:56
Frankly I am pissed off;):mad:. I came up with this idea years ago.

I also invented a version of the Critical Defense/Leverevolution ammo in the 1970s.

I need to start writing some of this stuff down.


For the record, I think the ultimate FMJ pistol round would be a version of the EFMJ (which I also invented a version of before Federal thought of it, yes, seriously, no bullshit) with a tungsten rear core. The rear core would have a very sharp cup face to it.

Charging Handle
09-08-11, 09:29
I can't wait to see some independent testing of this round! It sounds like it has potential. But I do wonder if it ends up performing much the same as the Marine Corps SOST loads. Those can be bought for about $15-$16 per box. And they have much higher velocity. So if the performance is similar, I don't know how much of a market the PDX .223 load will have, especially if the PDX price is in the $30 range.

saddlerocker
02-06-12, 13:01
There was a write-up about this ammo (and the topic of the AR for home defense) in Guns & Ammo recently, it was claiming that over penetration is greatly reduced with this "Split-Core" design, making it a great HD choice.

Also, there is a 77gr PDX1, but I have yet to see it in-stock anywhere yet.

Would also like to see some barrier and gel tests

Shawn Dodson
02-06-12, 15:49
Seems like a variation of Mk 318 Mod 0.

Spectre'sWrath
02-06-12, 16:21
Not trying to hijack or anything....I just laughed when I saw Nutnfancy made a cameo on the lineup video when they mention the "faster cycling for the action" for the 12 ga. (1:40).

That being said....it does seem like an interesting concept. I am interested in DocGKR's reply too....

saddlerocker
02-06-12, 16:48
Alot of the PDX1 lineup seems to be commercial packaged Ranger LE ammo.

I wonder if the bullet is just the 60gr Partition in the Ranger line, or if is a different projectile

BufordTJustice
02-06-12, 23:28
Looks interesting. I'll reserve judgement after Doc tests it.

Thanks for the heads up, Zhukov.

I can't see it performing much worse than Mk318 (similar concepts)....

tpd223
02-07-12, 13:11
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/11/07/review-winchester-pdx1-223/

Note that even in bare gelatin tests this bullet does not appear to meet FBI specs, according to this artcile.