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RAM Engineer
08-24-11, 16:31
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/08/24/rogers-super-stoc-ar-15-stock-review/

See the update at the bottom of the article. Not sure what to think about this other than to echo the article comments: It looks like a cheap copy of a CTR stock.

Mr. Goodtimes
08-24-11, 16:43
I agree, looks like a cheap knock off of a CTR. If Colt wanted an improved stock for their M4 they should have just stock some CTR's on there or MOE's. Gee, kind of like what Daniel Defense does. Colt builds a great rifle but good God, they never fail to amaze me. In today's market they still don't offer a midlength gas system and now their putting all these POS CTR knockoffs on their rifles.

GermanSynergy
08-24-11, 16:49
Rather have a MOE...

Iraqgunz
08-24-11, 16:58
Isn't some company in KY making a stock that looks similar? Maybe Doublestar?

sammage
08-24-11, 16:59
Ambidextrous use? :lol:

That and the QD sling point at the bottom crack me up.

msstate56
08-24-11, 17:03
I guess Colt will get a lot of use out of the dual receiver extention capability. You know, with all the commercial spec REs they put on their rifles. Colt is extremely resistant to change. I guess when they keep selling everything they make now, why bother designing something new? I agree that they should get with the times and offer a mid length gas system, and extend the rail on the 6940. In regards to the knockoff stock mentioned above, I'll believe they're colt factory stocks when I see it.

C4IGrant
08-24-11, 17:14
Gotta look at the positives, this is better than the cheap factory stock.


C4

JW1069
08-24-11, 17:25
So how much does the Colt rifle price increase by adding these things?

g5m
08-24-11, 18:48
Looks like pretty decent stock. I would like the tight lockup.

C4IGrant
08-24-11, 19:13
So how much does the Colt rifle price increase by adding these things?


None to my knowledge.

C4

Magic_Salad0892
08-24-11, 19:19
Does this mean that the military would get them too?...

Belmont31R
08-24-11, 19:19
Gotta look at the positives, this is better than the cheap factory stock.


C4





Colt production level furniture is the BEST in the industry for what it is. Thats to say to be functional for the end user to perform a task, and survive a certain amount of abuse. Every Colt M4 stock knockoff and A2 grip copy doesn't even come close for "stock" furniture. They are all cheap slippery hard plastic with mold lines out the vagoo. Colt actually makes a respectable set of factory furniture.

C4IGrant
08-24-11, 19:29
Colt production level furniture is the BEST in the industry for what it is. Thats to say to be functional for the end user to perform a task, and survive a certain amount of abuse. Every Colt M4 stock knockoff and A2 grip copy doesn't even come close for "stock" furniture. They are all cheap slippery hard plastic with mold lines out the vagoo. Colt actually makes a respectable set of factory furniture.

Agree. They have the best .Mil plastic parts.

C4

RogerinTPA
08-24-11, 19:40
If I were in the market for another 6920, I'd still throw that stock away...

Belmont31R
08-24-11, 19:48
If I were in the market for another 6920, I'd still throw that stock away...



I will buy them. The Colt "N" CAR stock is perhaps the best carbine stock ever made. Not indestructible but light, and made with very good quality materials. There is a VERY distinct weight difference between an "N" stock and a CTR. The CTR locks up tighter (:rolleyes:), and has a QD cup but weighs considerably more.

dfsutton
08-24-11, 19:49
Colt production level furniture is the BEST in the industry for what it is. Thats to say to be functional for the end user to perform a task, and survive a certain amount of abuse. Every Colt M4 stock knockoff and A2 grip copy doesn't even come close for "stock" furniture. They are all cheap slippery hard plastic with mold lines out the vagoo. Colt actually makes a respectable set of factory furniture.

The collapsible stock on my 6920 had a sharp raised line down it's top where you put your cheek. It would scratch and irritate the mess out of my face. If that is the best, then I would hate to see the others.

dyegator
08-24-11, 19:59
We just shot a 6920, 6940, and a Commando with the new Rogers stock Monday. According to the Colt rep, they will not be shipping the stock to the military.
It does lock up pretty well. That said, it does remind me of a CTR quite a bit, but the locking action is a bit different. All in all, it is a nice stock, but I still would throw a CTR on it.

Belmont31R
08-24-11, 20:08
The collapsible stock on my 6920 had a sharp raised line down it's top where you put your cheek. It would scratch and irritate the mess out of my face. If that is the best, then I would hate to see the others.


A couple swipes with a dull knife would have gotten rid of that.



Im talking more of the materials used. A2 knock off grips are made from hard thin plastic. Colt grips are made with a rubbery plastic that is much more grippy in the hand, and Ive never had one with mold lines all over it.


Im just talking about stock furniture. They do make the best, and the "n" CAR stock is the lightest and most quality stock out there. The CTR has more features but weights more.


FWIW I typically sand down the molt lines on SOPMOD stocks and round off the edges in the front of the stock. They don't exactly come skin friendly, either. With my CTR stocks they like to pinch facial hair especially on a 308. Ive had bald spots on my face on the right lower side from CTR's ripping out hair.

condition 1
08-24-11, 20:50
It took 10 minutes to install ? It looks thin and fragile around the sling swivel, IMHO I think any serious use would be a no-go.

JW1069
08-24-11, 21:52
None to my knowledge.

C4
Same price for an improved stock = Win.

I can't wait to get my hands on a SP901 and I don't care what stock they decide to throw on it. :D

scottryan
08-24-11, 22:04
Colt production level furniture is the BEST in the industry for what it is. Thats to say to be functional for the end user to perform a task, and survive a certain amount of abuse. Every Colt M4 stock knockoff and A2 grip copy doesn't even come close for "stock" furniture. They are all cheap slippery hard plastic with mold lines out the vagoo. Colt actually makes a respectable set of factory furniture.


Right on.

Skintop911
08-24-11, 22:15
Not enthused, but not a pundit. I'll give a <shrug> until I see it in the hands of LCD cops and GIs bouncing off walls, dropping on the ground, and getting mortared clearing stuck cases.

First thoughts...

If it fits both GI and commercial tubes, there's a mechanism of some sort that applies tension to compensate for the size. How many moving parts does that have, and what's their vulnerability? Screws?

This stands out:


There is also an option for adjusting the stock for an even tighter fit. With the stock setup in the mil-spec configuration the selector pin can be set for the commercial side making the stock tighter fitting when the cam lock lever is in the lock position. The correct fit is really dependent on how in spec your tube dimensions are. A cautionary note: donít over tighten the cam lever!

Emphasis mine. What happens if I do?

"Reversible"? Is there a need for that? Same question as above...how many more parts, components, screws to accomplish that?

This appears to be adaptation if we're kind, imitation if we're not. It doesn't appear to be innovation, either way, despite the puff piece.

Sotex
08-24-11, 22:36
I'm not a guru on AR stocks, but Bill Rogers is far from a hack. He's been in the business for a long time and several of his designs and innovations are top of the heap....based on that alone, I wouldn't sell it short without at least a test drive.

Dave_M
08-25-11, 00:09
There was a thread on this stock several months ago. While it looks aesthetically similar to the CTR it isn't much like it beyond that. I like the top sling loop (which the lack thereof I dislike about the CTR/MOE line). In regards to the capability to mount to both commercial and milspec stocks, that's likely for commercial production. God, how many threads have we all seen on various forums that boil down to: 'I want to buy a MOE/CTR--is my tube commercial or milspec?!?' My guess is Wilson just wanted to avoid constant inquiries by making it go either way.

Here's the thread I'm referring to:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=79802

Anyway, it's not like Wilson is some johnny-come-lately company. If it passes muster with Colt then I doubt we have too terribly much to worry about.

All of that said, the standard buttstock is perfectly functional--even though many of us (myself included) don't run them anymore.

crazymoose
08-25-11, 01:12
Isn't some company in KY making a stock that looks similar? Maybe Doublestar?

You talking about the TI7? I have one (like it a lot so far), and to me, it's like a cross between a SOPMOD and a CTR.

masakari
08-25-11, 01:15
I think that this looks like a great stock, and im glad that Colt is adopting it. I've always been interested in trying one out.
the whole CTR copy argument is absurd to say the least, just because it looks vaguely similar doesn't make it a copy. Relax and hop off of the magpul cocaine.

Grease Monkey
08-25-11, 08:15
Yawn.

scoutfsu99
08-25-11, 08:21
This seems to be one of those infamous solutions to a problem that didn't exist...

Larry Vickers
08-25-11, 10:34
My .02 cents;

My experience with the durability of Colt plastic M4 furniture has been excellent- extremely rugged. Occasionally a sharp edge needs to be addressed but other than that they are good to go

I will wait to try this new Rogers stock before I pass judgement but since the CTR is one of my favorites it will be a tall order before I put one on a rifle of mine over a CTR

Be safe

LAV

Doc Glockster
08-25-11, 10:36
Interesting. How about an episode testing the durability of different stock options on TacTV?

:cool:

DirectDrive
08-25-11, 10:41
Looks like an improved CTR.
Let's see what the field reports say.

Dave_M
08-25-11, 10:41
This seems to be one of those infamous solutions to a problem that didn't exist...

No more than any other quality stock alternatives for carbines.

scoutfsu99
08-25-11, 10:44
Exactly - so why even change it? If people are going to switch it out to their SOPMODs, magpuls, Vltors, etc......and the factory stock is gtg anyways, why change it?

Dave_M
08-25-11, 10:52
Exactly - so why even change it? If people are going to switch it out to their SOPMODs, magpuls, Vltors, etc......and the factory stock is gtg anyways, why change it?

I fail to see how Colt providing a stock with more functionality on their standards factory rifles for no increased money is a bad thing.

scoutfsu99
08-25-11, 10:57
I never said it was a bad thing. Unnecessary though, IMO. What problem did this stock solve?

Dave_M
08-25-11, 11:07
I never said it was a bad thing. Unnecessary though, IMO. What problem did this stock solve?

Of the clear tangibles, a QD socket and a butt pad.

scoutfsu99
08-25-11, 11:19
And for some people, those are completely unnecessary. They're not an improvement IMO (maybe the rubber pad).

I realize we could go all day on this. It really comes down to personal preferences.....which there's a massive thread going on right now. For me, the factory stock was just fine - especially since most traded them out for their personal preferences.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, good for Colt for working to make improvements to their weapons.

Dave L.
08-25-11, 11:24
This looks like an improvement. But it also looks like a Magpul ripoff.... Until someone gets one in hand and compares it side by side we wont know, so we will be forced to read 10 pages of Magpul fan-girls can complain about it.

DirectDrive
08-25-11, 12:30
This looks like an improvement. But it also looks like a Magpul ripoff.... Until someone gets one in hand and compares it side by side we wont know, so we will be forced to read 10 pages of Magpul fan-girls can complain about it.
If I'm a Magpul bean counter I have to be wondering why we have a MOE and a CTR. Why didn't we think of those removable spacers to further cut down on inventory ?
If this Rogers stock passes the field tests and comes in at an attractive price point it will definitely cut into Magpul sales.

As far as ripoff, I'll let the courts decide that one.

orionz06
08-25-11, 12:48
Is the QD socket rotation limited?

fixit69
08-25-11, 13:04
Colt production level furniture is the BEST in the industry for what it is. Thats to say to be functional for the end user to perform a task, and survive a certain amount of abuse. Every Colt M4 stock knockoff and A2 grip copy doesn't even come close for "stock" furniture. They are all cheap slippery hard plastic with mold lines out the vagoo. Colt actually makes a respectable set of factory furniture.

I respectfully disagree. Well, damn just saw where it's already been said, but it's the best . Mil plastic you can get( not saying that it is good). Sorry, plastic is slippery unless you treat it. Not really a fanboy of any company or stock, I always change mine out, love the rubber butpad for control. This new one has rubber I'm supposing, so I'll with hold speaking on it till I run it.

scottryan
08-25-11, 13:24
I respectfully disagree. Well, damn just saw where it's already been said, but it's the best . Mil plastic you can get( not saying that it is good). Sorry, plastic is slippery unless you treat it. Not really a fanboy of any company or stock, I always change mine out, love the rubber butpad for control. This new one has rubber I'm supposing, so I'll with hold speaking on it till I run it.



Colt standard handguards, grips, and stocks are better than their aftermarket equivalents. That is a fact.

They are made from better materials and don't melt under heat.

turdbocharged
08-25-11, 13:36
I don't mind the standard M4 stock... I'm also not really picky on what furniture it has at all. I guess I'd get the MOE if I was going to change anything.

fixit69
08-25-11, 14:16
Colt standard handguards, grips, and stocks are better than their aftermarket equivalents. That is a fact.

They are made from better materials and don't melt under heat.

So your saying my tango down and miad grip, my ctr, emod, acs,etc... will melt in the heat. The hand guard issue i will agree but i use rail=no issue. I live in Mississippi, and it gets damn hot, combined with running a weapon hard there is plenty heat and I've not had a melt, or even a deformation YMMV.

And that bump on the grip is just bothersome. IMO, no, the aftermarkets that are quality, beat them hands down and what you listed are the first things I change in on ar/m4. I respect your opinion, but I got my own through trial and error like you. Sorry it's not fact.

Belmont31R
08-25-11, 14:25
So your saying my tango down and miad grip, my ctr, emod, acs,etc... will melt in the heat. The hand guard issue i will agree but i use rail=no issue. I live in Mississippi, and it gets damn hot, combined with running a weapon hard there is plenty heat and I've not had a melt, or even a deformation YMMV.

And that bump on the grip is just bothersome. IMO, no, the aftermarkets that are quality, beat them hands down and what you listed are the first things I change in on ar/m4. I respect your opinion, but I got my own through trial and error like you. Sorry it's not fact.



I think you are missing the word "equivalent" in his post. There are tons of copies out there of A2 grips, handguards, and M4 stocks. None of them are really made to the same quality and materials as Colt products.


Not comparing a Colt M4 stock to a CTR or SOPMOD stock. Of course they have more features like a rubber pad and QD cups. However a $200 aftermarket stock is not the 'equivalent' of a factory Colt part that costs 4X as much as the OEM Colt part.

Iraqgunz
08-25-11, 17:28
Not sure if you know this or not, but Colt handguards are fiberglass reinforced nylon. Take some trashy BM handguards, remove the heat shields and attempt to squeeze them and break them.

Then try it with a Colt and see how far you get.


I respectfully disagree. Well, damn just saw where it's already been said, but it's the best . Mil plastic you can get( not saying that it is good). Sorry, plastic is slippery unless you treat it. Not really a fanboy of any company or stock, I always change mine out, love the rubber butpad for control. This new one has rubber I'm supposing, so I'll with hold speaking on it till I run it.

fixit69
08-25-11, 17:39
IG, I don't doubt any thing you say. I mention handguards in an earlier post. I just don't have a lot of love for the standard issue. It's workable but there are other IMO better options out there.

Belmont31R
08-25-11, 17:42
IG, I don't doubt any thing you say. I mention handguards in an earlier post. I just don't have a lot of love for the standard issue. It's workable but there are other IMO better options out there.




We are talking about OEM/stock/issued furniture not whatever doo dads company XYZ has come out with.

fixit69
08-25-11, 18:41
Then why does it say colt switching to Rogers stock? Maybe I'm not catching something, but as i said I going to fingerbang one before I speak. As for standard issue, I can use it but I don't prefer it.

wahoo95
08-25-11, 18:42
I have a couple of friends who have these stocks.....given to them by Bill Rogers himself when they attended his Shooting School. I had my reservations about them when I first saw pics on the web, however after seeing them in person and giving them a try I have to admit its a pretty good design. Gives you a lightweight sturdy built stock like the MOE with a cam lock design like the CTR and the ability to fit most any RE at a price point in between the two. I'll most likely pick one up for my next build.

C4IGrant
08-25-11, 19:51
Then why does it say colt switching to Rogers stock? Maybe I'm not catching something, but as i said I going to fingerbang one before I speak. As for standard issue, I can use it but I don't prefer it.

Someone at Colt is most likely trying to modernize the weapon.


C4

Dave L.
08-26-11, 02:43
Someone at Colt is most likely trying to modernize the weapon.


It could be worse; they could have been adding a piston system :suicide:

Magic_Salad0892
08-26-11, 04:48
I have the suspicion that Colt, LMT, and KAC get their plastic furniture from the same place.

The KAC A2 grips I have felt exactly like the Colts, and LMTs I've felt.

Related to the discussion:

If Colt really wanted to use the best stock, bring back the Colt Commando stock, with a QD swivel space, and a butt pad on it.

Boom. 12 oz. of fully functional stock. :)

Bob Reed
08-26-11, 07:56
Not sure if you know this or not, but Colt handguards are fiberglass reinforced nylon. Take some trashy BM handguards, remove the heat shields and attempt to squeeze them and break them.

Then try it with a Colt and see how far you get.
I fully agree that COLT'S high quality thermal plastic handguards are second to none - and their grips and stocks are made from better materials as well.

msstate56
08-26-11, 10:33
Someone at Colt is most likely trying to modernize the weapon.


C4

I know it sounds crazy, but I wonder if there is a way they can lengthen the gas system a couple of inches. Doing that may help the 16" guns run a little smoother. I doubt we'll ever see something so futuristic though.

Lumpy196
08-26-11, 12:03
I know it sounds crazy, but I wonder if there is a way they can lengthen the gas system a couple of inches. Doing that may help the 16" guns run a little smoother. I doubt we'll ever see something so futuristic though.

Colt builds guns to a very specific set of government specs. A longer gas system would be outside those specs.

msstate56
08-26-11, 19:56
Colt builds guns to a very specific set of government specs. A longer gas system would be outside those specs.

Yes, but the guns they sell to not the .mil can be made however they want (or maybe what the market wants). It seems that many other companies (i.e. DD, BCM, KAC, etc.) can manage to offer more than one barrel configuration.

wolf_walker
08-26-11, 20:59
Yes, but the guns they sell to not the .mil can be made however they want (or maybe what the market wants). It seems that many other companies (i.e. DD, BCM, KAC, etc.) can manage to offer more than one barrel configuration.

Don't hold your breath. :)
Unless you can hold it till the mil quits buying from them.

C4IGrant
08-26-11, 21:27
I know it sounds crazy, but I wonder if there is a way they can lengthen the gas system a couple of inches. Doing that may help the 16" guns run a little smoother. I doubt we'll ever see something so futuristic though.

In Colt's Engineering eyes, there is no reason to go to the mid length. They can configure the gun for optimum reliability with a CAR gas system.




C4

C4IGrant
08-26-11, 21:29
Yes, but the guns they sell to not the .mil can be made however they want (or maybe what the market wants). It seems that many other companies (i.e. DD, BCM, KAC, etc.) can manage to offer more than one barrel configuration.

The thing you have to understand is that Colt's biggest customers (forever) has been the US Govt and Foreign Govt's. NOT CIVY SALES.

So to deviate off of what these two customers buy would be a waste of resources.

Colt offers MANY barrel configs (16" car, 14.5 car, 11.5 car, 20" rifle, etc).


C4

wolf_walker
08-26-11, 21:33
The thing you have to understand is that Colt's biggest customers (forever) has been the US Govt and Foreign Govt's. NOT CIVY SALES.

So to deviate off of what these two customers buy would be a waste of resources.

Colt offers MANY barrel configs (16" car, 14.5 car, 11.5 car, 20" rifle, etc).


C4

And yonder is a right fair reason for me not to buy a Colt. They don't really care about civi sales, and I avoid big business about as much as I avoid big government. Bless BCM and the like for doing what they do.

C4IGrant
08-26-11, 21:39
And yonder is a right fair reason for me not to buy a Colt. They don't really care about civi sales, and I avoid big business about as much as I avoid big government. Bless BCM and the like for doing what they do.

This is not correct (any more). Commercial sales are carrying Colt now.


Please do not misunderstand what I posted. Colt believes that they can make a carbine length gas system run as well as a mid-length gas system.

While I like middy gas systems, it has more to do with the ease of running a longer rail than most anything else. You would be hard pressed to find a more tested and reliable gun than a Colt M4.


C4

msstate56
08-27-11, 00:30
This is not correct (any more). Commercial sales are carrying Colt now.


Please do not misunderstand what I posted. Colt believes that they can make a carbine length gas system run as well as a mid-length gas system.

While I like middy gas systems, it has more to do with the ease of running a longer rail than most anything else. You would be hard pressed to find a more tested and reliable gun than a Colt M4.


C4

You last two posts seem in direct contradiction. You say that Colt only cares about their .gov contracts and won't adapt to the current trends in the AR market, then you say that civilian sales are now keeping them going?

I have no doubts about the reliability of a Colt M4, but I don't have any doubts about the reliability of a BCM or DD mid length either. Longer rails are the new standard. Just look at some of the newer .mil rifles- Mk 12, Mk18, M110, and IAR. I'm sure that Colt will continue to make and sell tons of car barrels with 7 inch rails, but how many of the "informed consumers" are still purchasing that configuration? Saying that there's no need to change because the military asks for a specific configuration is silly (should we all carry M9s instead of Glocks, M&Ps, and H&Ks?). If civilian sales are carrying Colt now, and they must use a car gas system, do you think they've at least heard of a low profile gas block and extended rail?

I think Colt is missing out on a large market segment by refusing to change (and a simple stock swap is not change).

pomyc
08-27-11, 00:54
I'm sure that Colt will continue to make and sell tons of car barrels with 7 inch rails, but how many of the "informed consumers" are still purchasing that configuration?

Plenty...

variablebinary
08-27-11, 01:17
Yes, but the guns they sell to not the .mil can be made however they want (or maybe what the market wants). It seems that many other companies (i.e. DD, BCM, KAC, etc.) can manage to offer more than one barrel configuration.

Many "other companies" don't have to make 800 M4's per day.

And last I checked Colt makes a 20", 16" 14.5" and 11" readily available to civilians and MIL/LEO. Or is that all "one barrel configuration" in your mind?

msstate56
08-27-11, 01:22
Many "other companies" don't have to make 800 M4's per day.

And last I checked Colt makes a 20", 16" 14.5" and 11" readily available to civilians and MIL/LEO. Or is that all "one barrel configuration" in your mind?

Remind me how many of those are mid length gas systems? Or how many are factory assembled with a pinned low profile gas block and extended rail?

variablebinary
08-27-11, 01:53
Remind me how many of those are mid length gas systems? Or how many are factory assembled with a pinned low profile gas block and extended rail?

How much rail do you need?

http://www.coltsmfg.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=fM1E28ZYKh8%3d&tabid=147&mid=649

http://www.coltsmfg.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=IlhdGQtFotQ%3d&tabid=161&mid=644

msstate56
08-27-11, 02:25
That's not really swaying me. The first one doesn't exist oustide of the "they might be available one day," and the second is a useless (for me) Hbar target rifle.

I think Colt's new modular carbine is great. If they actually become available, I'd be glad to buy one. I think that is a very modern introduction to the AR market. But slapping a new stock on the same basic carbine that as been around for decades, is not "modernizing" that weapon. I'm sure there are plenty of people happy with car length gas, plastic handguards, and F front sights- but it is hardly the ideal configuration.

Rock on with your Colt in whatever configuration you like, I couldn't care less. I'll keep working with my carbines configured differently than anything Colt offers.

crazymoose
08-27-11, 03:34
That's not really swaying me. The first one doesn't exist oustide of the "they might be available one day," and the second is a useless (for me) Hbar target rifle.

I think Colt's new modular carbine is great. If they actually become available, I'd be glad to buy one. I think that is a very modern introduction to the AR market. But slapping a new stock on the same basic carbine that as been around for decades, is not "modernizing" that weapon. I'm sure there are plenty of people happy with car length gas, plastic handguards, and F front sights- but it is hardly the ideal configuration.

Rock on with your Colt in whatever configuration you like, I couldn't care less. I'll keep working with my carbines configured differently than anything Colt offers.

The huge uptick in AR classes and AR accessories of the last ten years or so has been accompanied by a lot of different training methods. Guys are using different kinds of slings, the ways people grip the rifle and stances differ, etc. An updated stock fits into this, both in terms of giving you a QD socket for whatever type of sling you might prefer, and the buttpad helps if you're wearing gear where only the "toe" of the stock is pressed against your shoulder when you shoot from a squared-off stance.

Magic_Salad0892
08-27-11, 08:30
IMHO, I've come to the conclusion that the 16.1'' barrel length is retarded. 16.1'' carbine gas barrels are retarded.

Which means that outside of 11'' barrels, my preference would be a 14.5'' carbine gas system, with lightweight barrel. Midlength may or may not be a liability. Small gas port, and VLTOR A5 buffer system > midlength.

Colt makes this in a very basic gun. 6721 IIRC. Or a cut down 6720.

Factor in that even though they aren't nitrided, or double chrome lined, or CHF, they're still in the realm of (very nearly) the most accurate factory chrome lined standard barrel on the market. Even the lightweight versions.

A 6721 is IMHO one of the best base guns you can build off of.

Even if it's nowhere near what I'd want if I could choose components individually. There isn't really a gun that is.

I would say 6933 but the gas port is gigantic. Like .071'', or .090'' or something stupid. On an 11.5'' barrel I'd want .060'', or .056'' for suppressors.

SR-15 E3 IWS would be my first choice in factory configured guns though, if I had to just take one and go.

But I'm getting ahead of myself...

I got way off subject, but you know what I'm getting at. Colt works, and I have (very little) reason to give them my business over DD, or BCM.

FWIW, I like the new Colt stock, but I'd still rather have the current standard M4 Gen II stock. Seems lighter weight to me, and I don't like stock mounted slings anyway.

Magic_Salad0892
08-27-11, 08:33
You last two posts seem in direct contradiction. You say that Colt only cares about their .gov contracts and won't adapt to the current trends in the AR market, then you say that civilian sales are now keeping them going?

Grant. I think I know what you're getting at, but I think I kind of lost you on that one.

I for one think that Gov. sales are carrying Colt.

And **** FN for not making M4s for us civilians!

FailureDrill-P099
08-27-11, 09:59
I like the current mil spec stock. If I was going to change it I would go with MOE or CTR.

Skintop911
08-27-11, 14:28
I think Colt is missing out on a large market segment by refusing to change (and a simple stock swap is not change).

People overestimate the popularity of the 9" gas systems and extended rails. They are the exception in the market, not the norm, evidenced by production references from manufacturers and stock on the shelves of dealers.

Plenty of the "informed", and serious shooters are running 7" gas and short HGs or rails with great effect.

On the manufacturer side, when you're selling every single unit of an existing product type, why divert production resources to a another type for a minority consumer group?

C4IGrant
08-27-11, 21:48
You last two posts seem in direct contradiction. You say that Colt only cares about their .gov contracts and won't adapt to the current trends in the AR market, then you say that civilian sales are now keeping them going?

There is a difference between "won't adapt" and "don't see a need to."


I have no doubts about the reliability of a Colt M4, but I don't have any doubts about the reliability of a BCM or DD mid length either. Longer rails are the new standard. Just look at some of the newer .mil rifles- Mk 12, Mk18, M110, and IAR. I'm sure that Colt will continue to make and sell tons of car barrels with 7 inch rails, but how many of the "informed consumers" are still purchasing that configuration? Saying that there's no need to change because the military asks for a specific configuration is silly (should we all carry M9s instead of Glocks, M&Ps, and H&Ks?). If civilian sales are carrying Colt now, and they must use a car gas system, do you think they've at least heard of a low profile gas block and extended rail?

I think Colt is missing out on a large market segment by refusing to change (and a simple stock swap is not change).

Colt knows more about AR's or M16's than just about anyone. They know how to do everything from make middy barrels, to doing low profile GB's. While they don't (Currently) pay a lot of attention to the trends of the commercial market I think that may change in the near future.

C4

C4IGrant
08-27-11, 22:04
Grant. I think I know what you're getting at, but I think I kind of lost you on that one.

I for one think that Gov. sales are carrying Colt.

And **** FN for not making M4s for us civilians!

Commercial sales is king at Colt currently.


C4

ClearedHot
08-28-11, 00:07
Back to Colt's M4 furniture...I actually really liked these stocks: http://www.autoweapons.com/photos05/jan/jan1026.jpg

Wish they still made them.

DocGKR
08-28-11, 01:44
Magic_Salad0892:

Interesting that you've come to the conclusion that the 16.1'' barrel length is retarded. Especially given that the highly esteemed, extremely experienced Pat McNamara recently mentioned that during his career, he has preferred a 5.56 mm DI 16Ē barrel AR15 with a long FF rail and a RDS (w/flip up 3x magnifier as a useful addition) for the majority of his carbine use, including indoors for CQB; he specifically mentioned LaRue and DD AR15ís as currently working very well for him. I fully agree with him and run almost all my carbines the same way:

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/148365765671.jpg

FChen17213
08-28-11, 02:28
I like those old school CAR stocks better than the newer ones because they don't have that sling loop toe on the bottom to snag stuff. They also feel like they're a bit smaller which is good.

scoutfsu99
08-28-11, 08:45
Magic_Salad0892:

... he specifically mentioned LaRue and DD AR15ís as currently working very well for him. I fully agree with him and run almost all my carbines the same way:


But LaRue mounts have a fundamentally flawed locking concept:rolleyes:

mkmckinley
08-28-11, 09:58
Back to Colt's M4 furniture...I actually really liked these stocks: [IMG deleted]
Wish they still made them.

Me too. I was told that the reason for the switch to the newer stock, with the sling loop stupidly placed right on the toe, was so that the Regular Army and Marines could do Drill and Ceremony with their M4s. I'm not sure if that's true but either way it made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. The new stock looks like an improvement over the current one.

col.1981
08-28-11, 11:10
Isn't some company in KY making a stock that looks similar? Maybe Doublestar?


Accurate Armory. More like a SOPMOD/CTR baby. I believe DS just uses regular rifle and carbine stocks.

http://www.accuratearmory.com/Home.aspx


Like someone already said, Colt should do like DD and just put a dang CTR/MOE on it because that stock is silly.

Belmont31R
08-28-11, 13:02
Me too. I was told that the reason for the switch to the newer stock, with the sling loop stupidly placed right on the toe, was so that the Regular Army and Marines could do Drill and Ceremony with their M4s. I'm not sure if that's true but either way it made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. The new stock looks like an improvement over the current one.


One screw and that sling loop on the bottom comes out.



But I like the N marked CAR stocks a lot, too. Very light and does its job well.

Magic_Salad0892
08-29-11, 05:21
Magic_Salad0892:

Interesting that you've come to the conclusion that the 16.1'' barrel length is retarded. Especially given that the highly esteemed, extremely experienced Pat McNamara recently mentioned that during his career, he has preferred a 5.56 mm DI 16” barrel AR15 with a long FF rail and a RDS (w/flip up 3x magnifier as a useful addition) for the majority of his carbine use, including indoors for CQB; he specifically mentioned LaRue and DD AR15’s as currently working very well for him. I fully agree with him and run almost all my carbines the same way:

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/148365765671.jpg

Gotta ask, Doc.

If it weren't for NFA, would you use a 16.1'' barrel over the similar but shorter 14.5''?

And I admit, I should have added: They are retarded, for me. There may be exceptions where they work. Like an unmodified SR-15 or something. However, I will maintain that the NFA is the only reason 16.1'' barrel length even exists to this day.

Also: I have no problem with the LaRue mounting method, I just don't care for the owner of the company. I feel as though he hates every other AR makers products except for his own. I gather this from his posts on TOS.

I like certain products, and have owned LaRue mounts, but I will not give that man my money.

And just to touch on Colt's furniture: I think the Roger Super-Stock is better, due to cheek weld. I don't care for Magpul MOE/CTR style anymore. I wish I had learned that a long time ago.

C4IGrant
10-05-11, 11:59
These are now out!


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1114635#post1114635



C4

markm
10-05-11, 13:10
But I like the N marked CAR stocks a lot, too. Very light and does its job well.

That's what I run most of the time. Colt should have gone with the SOPMOD if they wanted to get cute. :rolleyes:

Magic_Salad0892
10-05-11, 13:34
That's what I run most of the time. Colt should have gone with the SOPMOD if they wanted to get cute. :rolleyes:

Agreed.

Colt CAR, and LMT SOPMOD are my favorite stocks out there.

I have a few CAR stocks around, even though I never use them.

One day I'll put together an XM16E1 esque Commando build with a CAR stock and keep it in my Civic.

C4IGrant
10-05-11, 14:13
That's what I run most of the time. Colt should have gone with the SOPMOD if they wanted to get cute. :rolleyes:

While I like the SOPMOD, it would have made them increase the base price of the guns. It is much better to keep the price the same and let the consumer switch out the stock.



C4

markm
10-05-11, 15:04
While I like the SOPMOD, it would have made them increase the base price of the guns. It is much better to keep the price the same and let the consumer switch out the stock.


C4
That's true.

scottryan
10-05-11, 23:25
Magic_Salad0892:

Interesting that you've come to the conclusion that the 16.1'' barrel length is retarded. Especially given that the highly esteemed, extremely experienced Pat McNamara recently mentioned that during his career, he has preferred a 5.56 mm DI 16” barrel AR15 with a long FF rail and a RDS (w/flip up 3x magnifier as a useful addition) for the majority of his carbine use, including indoors for CQB; he specifically mentioned LaRue and DD AR15’s as currently working very well for him. I fully agree with him and run almost all my carbines the same way:




The only reason a 16" barrel exists is because of the NFA. If there was no NFA, people wouldn't know any better as there would be no 16" barrels.

Magic_Salad0892
10-05-11, 23:27
The only reason a 16" barrel exists is because of the NFA. If there was no NFA, people wouldn't know any better as there would be no 16" barrels.

Did you read my posts about that earlier?

Buckshot Barry
01-06-12, 19:30
And for those wanting the pre Rogers Super Stock please see this thread

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96217