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View Full Version : Are vertical grips legal now

bigrich007
11-28-11, 19:39
At the Orlando gun show there was a dealer selling ar pistols with vertical grips. He said that they were legal. The ATF had giving him a letter. Saying that the pistols were more than 26.6 inches long. There were no longer considered a pistol and where consider an other weapon. Anyone aware of this.
PE556
11-28-11, 19:50
yes.

I believe that the ruling by the ATF was based on a question submitted by Kahr regarding some Thompson product that they sell, but it applies to ARs as well if the total length is greater than 26 inches.
Todd.K
11-28-11, 19:58
At the Orlando gun show there was a dealer selling ar pistols with vertical grips.
That configuration is not a pistol.

It is a "firearm" under the GCA, like a Mossberg 12ga with pistol grip is not a shotgun or a pistol.
obucina
11-28-11, 20:08
That configuration is not a pistol.

It is a "firearm" under the GCA, like a Mossberg 12ga with pistol grip is not a shotgun or a pistol.


would that be an AOW?
shadow65
11-28-11, 21:03
Franklin Arms got a ruling from the ATF with an 11.5" AR pistol upper on an AR lower with carbine length buffer tube. Longer than 26", it can have a vert. grip.
Always check you local and state laws.
Dave
Todd.K
11-28-11, 22:04
would that be an AOW?

No, an AOW must be concealable and that is where the 26" OAL minimum comes in.
Colt-45
12-27-11, 18:33
Franklin Arms got a ruling from the ATF with an 11.5" AR pistol upper on an AR lower with carbine length buffer tube. Longer than 26", it can have a vert. grip.
Always check you local and state laws.
Dave

This is where I got the information as well. There's a letter out there, they produce 11.5 ar pistols with VFG's now.
az doug
12-27-11, 21:07
Have VFG's ever been illegal when added to a pistol by the end user? I know the ATF has published their opinion, but has anyone ever been convicted in Federal Court for adding a VFG to a pistol? Every case I have ever read was dismissed by the Judge or found not guilty.

Don't get me wrong, I do not have one on a pistol, nor do I want one. I also understand that I could lose everything/go broke defending myself against the ATF's opinion. I am just wondering if anyone knows of anyone being successfully prosecuted for adding a VFG to a pistol?
MrM4
01-04-12, 23:36
Have VFG's ever been illegal when added to a pistol by the end user?

YES THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN A.O.W. ( Any Other Weapon)

I know the ATF has published their opinion, but has anyone ever been convicted in Federal Court for adding a VFG to a pistol? Every case I have ever read was dismissed by the Judge or found not guilty.

Normally it is thrown out in exchange for a plee on other charges.

Don't get me wrong, I do not have one on a pistol, nor do I want one. I also understand that I could lose everything/go broke defending myself against the ATF's opinion. I am just wondering if anyone knows of anyone being successfully prosecuted for adding a VFG to a pistol?

I can think of the 1 guy with a SP89 on Gunbroker a few years back that got caught when he tried to sell the gun with the VFG attached in the pictures. IIRC he did do alittle time.
Iraqgunz
01-05-12, 01:12
Those of you whom have commented recently need to re-read what was posted and what ToddK mentioned. This is only legal in limited circumstances as has been spelled out.

Don't read into this.
scottryan
01-05-12, 09:56
Franklin Arms got a ruling from the ATF with an 11.5" AR pistol upper on an AR lower with carbine length buffer tube. Longer than 26", it can have a vert. grip.
Always check you local and state laws.
Dave



That wasn't a ruling.

The ATF letter said what has always been the law.

Franklin Arms is not the first company to build guns like this.
az doug
01-06-12, 23:56
I can think of the 1 guy with a SP89 on Gunbroker a few years back that got caught when he tried to sell the gun with the VFG attached in the pictures. IIRC he did do alittle time.

Thanks. I will look into the SP-89 case. All of the ones charged, that I know of, were either found not guilty or the judge dismissed the charges. These weren't dismissed because because of a plea to other charges, although there could be a couple of those and I am just not aware of them.
Th3Revreant
02-15-12, 00:35
Just pay your tax and be done with it :D
iNeXile
02-18-12, 09:27
A pistol with a OAl 26" or greater may have a VFG add to it however with the VFG installed it is no longer classified as a pistol, it is a simple title1 firearm.

This is not a new ruling. This is the same ruling that allowed the Thompson A5 "pistol" in the mid 1970s.