View Full Version : Your thoughts on guns and theft
Doc Glockster
01-10-12, 17:29
Living on ranch in the middle of nowhere the way I do, I'm constantly aware of issues concerning break-ins, theft of my firearms, and whatnot.
Of course I take the usual precautions and some extra ones that I won't get into, but there's always that nagging doubt that "if they want it bad enough they will get it."
So, I'm thinking of getting rid of my "rare" irreplaceable firearms and insuring the replaceable ones so at least I can re-purchase them if they get stolen.
What issues can you think of that might be negatives in doing this?
Is it smart for the insurance company to have the serial numbers of what I own? Am I opening up another can of worms I don't want to with that information being in a computer somewhere that can be hacked?
Not that I'm naive enough to believe the government doesn't already know I own those evil black rifles, but am I opening myself up to further government scrutiny by "making it official" with the insurance company or some such nonsense?
Are there other issues I haven't even thought of yet?
Ideally, I'd love to find that foolproof method of theft prevention, but at least maybe the ability to get replacement value if what I've got gets stolen will let me sleep at night.
Or will it?
Living on ranch in the middle of nowhere the way I do, I'm constantly aware of issues concerning break-ins, theft of my firearms, and whatnot.
Of course I take the usual precautions and some extra ones that I won't get into, but there's always that nagging doubt that "if they want it bad enough they will get it."
So, I'm thinking of getting rid of my "rare" irreplaceable firearms and insuring the replaceable ones so at least I can re-purchase them if they get stolen.
What issues can you think of that might be negatives in doing this?
Is it smart for the insurance company to have the serial numbers of what I own? Am I opening up another can of worms I don't want to with that information being in a computer somewhere that can be hacked?
Not that I'm naive enough to believe the government doesn't already know I own those evil black rifles, but am I opening myself up to further government scrutiny by "making it official" with the insurance company or some such nonsense?
Are there other issues I haven't even thought of yet?
Get a HUGE+Secure safe for the irreplaceable ones?
One of the negatives is that you're not going to have your "rare, irreplaceable" stuff anymore. If you don't care to own them, sell them, buy something you're interested in. Otherwise, make them reasonably secure and get an insurance policy, and that's the best you can do.
I don't see why you would get rid of the irreplaceable ones.
Presumably there is something unique and interesting about them?
anyway, if you have a basement, build a vault room (reinforced concrete all the way around/top/bottom with professional vault door. Stick your gun safes inside of that value room.
While professionals could probably still get in with enough time and resources, you've pretty much made it not worth it unless you had the crown jewels in there or something.
Catch 22 man.
Thats a rough decision. Not wanting to worry about them getting stolen, and on the other hand not wanting to SELL.
Having your stuff registered and the government knowing what you have.
I would get a safe. The best safe I could find depending on your budget.
If the weapons in it DONT exceed the price of the safe, well then...
If your inventory however by FAR exceeds the price of the safe then its a good idea.
I hate thieves more than ANYTHING else.
They should have their stupid fingers removed from their body.
Get a couple dogs.
Some people might be willing to kill dogs for a burglary if they know there is good stuff but most won't do it to "find out" if there is anything worth stealing.
If you don't have a good safe, get one. Place it someplace where it would be hard to work on like a closet.
Doc Glockster
01-10-12, 17:46
A quick update: I spoke to my insurance company just now and they said I can write down the make, model, and serial numbers and they will put a piece of paper in my file without computerizing it.
All I'm after is replacement value.
My AK is really the only "irreplaceable" item because I understand they don't make the SLR107FR anymore, but I'm not that attached to it anyway.
All my other stuff is common store bought items, but I wouldn't have the money to re-purchse them if they walk off.
A safe is a good suggestion. I really hate talking about my present security measures over the net so I'll just say I can neither confirm nor deny anything I might already be doing. :D
Doc Glockster
01-10-12, 17:59
Not to hijack my own thread: but I just thought of something that might be a productive exercise.
For every measure there is a countermeasure.
For example, the gun safe is fine but I've read stories lately of thieves that just knock out a wall and take the safe with them.
I wonder if we could list the different measures like dogs and whatnot and then "debunk" what makes them a good deterrent or point out their deficiencies?
My insurance co. didn't require serial #'s, just general description and approx. values as long as I had a record of serials.
I keep duplicate records in a safe deposit box at my bank in case of fire, etc. so I just went that route.
I personally would never sell my things just to keep the vermin away, but that's just me.
Is it smart for the insurance company to have the serial numbers of what I own?
Not sure what your available insurance options are in "Damnation Alley" but here in Texas I have an unscheduled, all risk, no-fault rider on my homeowners for firearms up to X amount. It only costs me 1% of X per year.
As an example, for $2,500 worth of unscheduled firearms, you would pay only $25 per year. They are covered if they are stolen, lost, dropped in the ocean, or go Kboom, even if it is my fault.
For the more expensive collectables, I would schedule those with supporting appraisials.
Not to hijack my own thread: but I just thought of something that might be a productive exercise.
For every measure there is a countermeasure.
For example, the gun safe is fine but I've read stories lately of thieves that just knock out a wall and take the safe with them.
I wonder if we could list the different measures like dogs and whatnot and then "debunk" what makes them a good deterrent or point out their deficiencies?
This is what makes tight locations like closets a good place for a safe. If you don't have room to swing tools, you can't use those tools to defeat the safe. I've even seen a false wall installed in the back of a closet concealing the safe.
Alarms simply put burglars on a time limit and any burglar capable of getting in your home KNOWS how long police response times are. They aren't useless, just be aware that all it does it put them on a time limit.
Dogs are an excellent deterrent. When criminals go door to door (pretending to sell magazine subscriptions and things like that) have a large sounding dog answer the door typically takes you off the list unless they KNOW there is some big ticket item that will make it all worth it.
Most insurance companies will want you to purchase a rider in addition to your regular policy for things like guns beyond a certain value. And if the policy is for replacement value, the premiums will be priced accordingly. Always remember insurance companies are a for profit business.
It doesn't sound like the items you have are terribly valuable so a good safe will make them more trouble than they are worth to steal. Keep in mind stolen guns are typically worth half their actual value for the criminal.
One nice thing about the computer age though: you can take detailed digital photos of your stuff from several angles for proof of condition for insurance purposes and appearance should LE need a better idea than a *basic description.
Those in turn can be DL'd from the camera, printed on good stock and then put in a weathertight container for burial somewhere or placed in a safe deposit box all without having to worry about giving an inventory of your stuff to the kid at the pharmacy who develops the conventional film nor going through anybodies **computer system where it can be spooked up through hack or crack.
* I do so despise someone trying to say what they've got and the closest they can do is to link to a retailer somewhere and say 'it sorta looks like the top one, but not quite'.
I'm not LE, but its still agitating none the less.
** If you've not worked out how to delete all copies in the file systems, both permanant and temporary, or even prevent items from being saved at all to begin with then I don't know what to offer because about the only thing you'd be able to do at that stage is to put a couple .45 rounds through the hard drive so as to at least prevent 99% of the invasions.
On the issue of safes..most are impressive looking steel boxes, made from 10ga steel..A wafer wheel on a 6" grinder could easily cut a hole in the wall and they could simply break the drywall (fireproofing) and reach in and take what they want. Commercial gunsafes are good enought to stop the smash and grab types, But, the dertermined criminal who has a 20 minutes and a 6" grinder can easily get into the safe. I've seen deals on REAL safes, places like Gov deals .com Locksmiths sometimes get them and usually they are reasonable..But, you need a place to put it, and a way to get it there. About 6 months back on Gov deals, a SO had a large Diebold safe,up for bid, this was tall enough it could have been used for a gunsafe, the walls were about 2-3" thick, was fireproof, and the doors(double doored) were about 8" thick, weighed about 3000lbs..This would've been a real tough nut to break into. last bid on it I think was $1200..You had to pickup..
have heard some have 2 gun safes a good one hidden a second cheap one with less nice stuff in a more common area ?
the theory I guess being the thieves seem to have hit the jackpot they think
have thought about doing that with a $400 type safe from costco in the front closet still bolt it in so its hard to get out etc.. have a couple 22s in their some ammo to match etc..
I know I read some stuff about thieves and guns and some are smart enough to know if they see 5.56 ammo anywhere to keep looking to find the gun that matches !
again that would be the smarter ones !
other thing is a thumb drive keep good pics of your guns and serials and other important items and copies of paper things insurance birth certificate etc.. just in case you might need on it get a keyring one or something easy to have around but not taken and/or a second copy in a safe deposit box etc..
Take all the steps listed above - the good things in life are worth having, and there's a reason insurance companies stay in business.
Are there small sized GPS trackers with a reasonable battery life that you could put into them?
Electrical tape one to the inside of your MIAD? Maybe route a small slot into a wood stock beneath a recoil pad?
Are there small sized GPS trackers with a reasonable battery life that you could put into them?
Electrical tape one to the inside of your MIAD? Maybe route a small slot into a wood stock beneath a recoil pad?
GPS is a battery hog. I am not an expert but just looking at the GPS capabilities in a smartphone -- leave them on (i.e. the GPS on and tracking in an ongoing fashion) and your battery is dead in an hour or two.
It would have to be something you could trigger to turn on through some sort of broadcast -- like "Lojack"
I think you may be obssessing about this.
1. Get a good safe, make sure it is secured.
2. Invest in an alarm system (if possible).
3. Invest in some dogs (if possible).
4. Insure your firearms. Record serial numbers and take pics.
5. Don't broadcoast it all over the internet. Thieves often target people and homes because they know something. The internet can be very useful in locating people or an area.
Doc Glockster
01-11-12, 10:47
I think you may be obssessing about this.
Not obsessing, just being thorough. Too many times I've devised what I thought was the perfect security measure only to see a report on some TV show where the thieves easily defeated it. (Notice how I haven't mentioned what I actually use for security, either). :D
My remote location makes it somewhat unlikely that anyone but a dedicated thief would break in, but that's what I'm protecting against.
LOL--I make the joke that if a thief can survive the miles of bad road to get to the house then probably nothing will stop them.
Don't broadcoast it all over the internet. Thieves often target people and homes because they know something. The internet can be very useful in locating people or an area.
Amen. I avoid websites and threads where you are required to give your real name in your thread replies and what have you. I once aborted registering for some forum because the forum rules stated you had to give your real name in addition to your screen name in every post.
But I think I've got it covered. One phone call to the insurance company and I'm covered. No security measure is foolproof, but like they say "all you can do is all you can do." If a thief does get them, well, rest assured they will be on NCIC within a few hours. Guaranteed.
Not being that fond of my AK I may get rid of it. It's the only "irreplaceable" one I've got.
Ironically, this may all be moot pretty soon anyway. As soon as the economy improves and I can sell the ranch, I'll probably move back to town and just keep one or two firearms for home defense anyway.
Smuckatelli
01-11-12, 11:58
Not obsessing, just being thorough.
Doc, was that you asking about gun safe dial vs electronic keys in the Nevada shooters forum in November 2010?
If it was, you probably are worrying about it and flagging yourself more than you need to.
Doc Glockster
01-11-12, 12:03
Doc, was that you asking about gun safe dial vs electronic keys in the Nevada shooters forum in November 2010?
If it was, you probably are worrying about it and flagging yourself more than you need to.
No, I've never even heard of that forum. In fact, I don't recall that I've ever even broached this subject on any other board. I'm not a member of that many boards, and most of them I rarely post anything on.
My purpose for starting this thread was more asking about insurance than anything else, but later I wanted to hear other people's security ideas just because I'm always looking for new ones.
I don't even admit to what I have for security on the internet. Just suffice it to say I have some.
LOL--the best security is for somebody to be home all the time and I guess that fits me to a "T".
Eurodriver
01-11-12, 12:46
Catch 22 man.
Thats a rough decision. Not wanting to worry about them getting stolen, and on the other hand not wanting to SELL.
Having your stuff registered and the government knowing what you have.
I would get a safe. The best safe I could find depending on your budget.
If the weapons in it DONT exceed the price of the safe, well then...
If your inventory however by FAR exceeds the price of the safe then its a good idea.
I hate thieves more than ANYTHING else.
They should have their stupid fingers removed from their body.
wtf? A hi point avatar? lol
montanadave
01-11-12, 13:50
Though I had made inquiries previously, this thread prompted me to call my insurance agent and do a double check. My homeowner's policy would cover my firearms against theft (as well as all the other catastrophic shit) as long as I can provide proof of ownership and have a police report. I would have to pay the deductible.
I could get these items "scheduled" and forgo the deductible for somewhere in the neighborhood of an additional $50/year but this would require me to provide a complete inventory of my firearms to the insurance company.
I think I'll leave well enough alone. My firearms are in a safe, I have a home security system, and two dogs who go ballistic when a stranger comes to the door.
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