View Full Version : m4carbine.net Member Competition
thopkins22
01-18-12, 03:26
Perusing snipers hide the other day as I'm getting ready to play around with the long range thing I realized that they have an ongoing informal bragging rights only rimfire competition where members can put their skills to the test amongst the membership. https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3007051#Post3007051
I'd really like to see something similar happen here...AR style of course.
Ideas? It could be a series of drills every month with times posted according to some system(I could police them up and enter them into a dedicated thread, and volunteer my mediocre services if this comes to pass.) It could be scores on various standards, bullseye competitions, I suppose the possibilities are endless if it becomes an ongoing thing.
Will people cheat? Probably, but I guess I don't really care. Some folks will back it up with video, some will shoot with other members present who can vouch, and some we'll just have to take at their word.
Any interest?
I think it's a great idea. I think it should be:
-monthly
-AR only (this is m4carbine.net afterall)
-video documented when possible
They could range from the MEU(SOC) to the Modified Navy Qual to some of the VTAC drills, to some of the drills in Pat McNamara's book, etc.
Evil Colt 6920
01-18-12, 07:37
Sounds interesting and fun. Im able to visit the range weekly again so this could add some flare to my trips.
Sounds like a good idea to me but it would be nice to have pistol as well. Also I don't think I'm alone in that I have to shoot at a static range
7-15 yard
25
50
100
there are other sites that are doing pistol. this site is still "m4carbine"...
if we ARE going to do both they should be kept separate. Those that can't get to a rifle range or one that allows them can do the pistol stuff, those that are only interested in the rifle stuff can do just that.
QuietShootr
01-18-12, 09:00
I think it's a great idea. I think it should be:
-monthly
-AR only (this is m4carbine.net afterall)
-video documented when possible
They could range from the MEU(SOC) to the Modified Navy Qual to some of the VTAC drills, to some of the drills in Pat McNamara's book, etc.
I think it's a neat idea too.
They did this on ARF at one time. Post your groups doing drill X, etc.
Integrity issues are obviously a concern... but it's not like cash rewards are at stake.
Uncut video should filter some of that concern out. I would participate; I don't imagine I will fare well, but some constructive criticism from my peers on the attempts would be great.
It could go as far as having members send in their drill ideas and a Mod selecting each months drill.
"insert member name and drill name here" drill for Feb 2012
I go in for shoulder surgery tomorrow and will look into this. It would have to be set up so that it maximizes the number of people that can do it based on range restrictions, etc. Of course it's the honor system and people would have to live with themselves if cheating.
Let's throw some ideas about--
After my dope supply runs out, I will be able to make sense on the follow up.= and will plenty of time I hope.
Some ideas
Years ago, I did the rimfire central postal match. You sent your fee to the match organizer (cheap) and he would send you the target(s) that were numbered and marked. You shot and sent then to him and he would post the results. That would be a lot of work.
An idea is to standardize the target, easily obtainable and the course could change, again trying to allow maximum participation with various range restriction. We could simply have the score posted and those could be organized into order.
Ground rules would need to be set such as check zero and shoot it once and not shoot it until you have a great score. We could do two classes, irons only and dots, wouldn't want to get into precision scoped on this.
We could do two courses, one static for those who can't move and one with positional/movement, etc.
anyhow---
It could go as far as having members send in their drill ideas and a Mod selecting each months drill.
"insert member name and drill name here" drill for Feb 2012
This could easily become it's own forum section.
There could be tacked threads for the "February carbine drill of the month" and "February handgun drill of the month", and the only things posted in them are the drills and scores, no witty banter, no pissing and moaning.
Then there are threads for "March carbine drill of the month - suggestions" and "March handgun drill of the month- suggestions", and with one week way from the 1st a mod starts a thread with a poll "March carbine drill of the month - poll" wherein the top suggestions from the discussion thread are listed and voted on. Top votes wins.
I do NOT think we want to get all Obama on this and make the drills so lame that "anyone can do them". Make the drills - people that can do them will vote, etc. There may be months where it's a 200 yard drill and I can't/don't participate. There may be months when it's a 10 yards speed drill and someone else can't. Such is life.
Since I get grief for not offering to help around here, I so firmly believe in this I would be happy to help with moderation/posting/polling duties in whatever way I can.
Sounds good, let me see what I have time to work on later before tomorrow so we could run it.
Rob, if you want, post a course idea and with what target and we can see if it'll run for feb.
I'll sticky this for now and may move it over to the competition section and check to see if we can make a separate area for it. That may take some time.
Failure2Stop
01-18-12, 10:47
Easiest, cheapest, most standard targets with the highest application to practical use:
B-8 bulls eye
3x5 index cards
5x8 index cards
6" paper plates or steel
8" paper plates or steel
"C" Zone refaces or steel
chavez_e_chavez
01-18-12, 11:03
Sounds like a awesome but the long range competition only problem is my range is out to 200 yards....
Yes, the B8 and B5's are very useful. IPSC's are another, maybe use those for longer ranges when incorporated.
I think posting pics and video would be a killer on bandwidth unless approved, that may not happen.
I'll suggest
state the target(s) to be used
state the course
Shot within the calender month
prefer to be witnessed by another member, not a requirement.
simply submit the score, don't get into a pic thread with your gucci stick--just say 16" middy, iron sights or 20" rifle, T1
i, or someone else can move the score into one post and delete the member's post. I'm a computer dummy, so if someone would want to compile them into an excel, etc format and post that?
Sounds like a awesome but the long range competition only problem is my range is out to 200 yards....
I doubt it'll go over that as we can use a target that will be challenging.
Please remember and this is one example, if your range only allows 25 yards, you will have to wait until we have a course with that only.
Here's my suggestion. It's a takeoff of the VTAC 1/2&1/2 Drill (http://youtu.be/2-oYRn_llgo).
Carbine
Distance: 5 Yards
Round Count: 30
Target: Link (http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10846&d=1326904639) (and attached)
Start Position: muzzle depressed at below 45* to the ground, stock in shoulder, hands on pistol grip and forend, looking over top of gun at target.
Scoring: Go/No-Go, report time(s)
Fire 10 rounds into the 2" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 4" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 8" circle. Record time.
All hits must be inside the circle, or breaking the line, to count.
Report fastest times for a full "go". Do not pick and choose this 2" time and that 8" time, but all times from the shortest overall clean run.
2" Time:
4" Time:
8" Time:
# of attempts to get clean run:
Carbine used:
Modifications to stock Carbine:
Ammo used:
Handgun
Distance: 3 Yards
Round Count: 30
Target: Link (https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Personal/TSSA/half%20and%20half%20target.pdf?w=a2bc9bb0) (and attached)
Start Position: Pistol holstered, hands at side.
Scoring: Go/No-Go, report time(s)
Fire 10 rounds into the 2" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 4" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 8" circle. Record time.
All hits must be inside the circle, or breaking the line, to count.
Report fastest times for a full "go". Do not pick and choose this 2" time and that 8" time, but all times from the shortest overall clean run. Report if shot from concealment or open carry.
2" Time:
4" Time:
8" Time:
# of attempts to get clean run:
Concealed/Open Carry:
Pistol used:
Modifications to stock pistol:
Ammo used:
The idea with the above is that it requires VERY little in the way of range lattitude. You could conceivably shoot it at an indoor range with a 9mm carbine or frangible ammo if they allow it. Alternately, you can shoot the handgun portion of the EXACT SAME DRILL.
It is also very simply scored as it is just a factor of fastest time for a clean run. No this or that, adding, calculus, percentages, hit factors, or vernal equinox required. Go/no-go? Go? record time.
It is also able to be shot over and over to improve your time. For anyone that hasn't shot this before they may not catch that they need to remember their offset for the 2" circle and possibly the 4" circle.
Rob_S... any chance I could talk you into scaling that up to 7 yards?
We can't shoot below 7 yards at the range I go to and the indoor range requires the use of their ammo. so this would be an expensive un-fun competition for me. Which means I would have to pass.
Also on attempts made. If you miss say one of your 2" shots. You just start over right? IOW, an attempt is not necessarily 30 rounds fired.
ETA: also how do you get that target to print at proper scale? Link is 403 for me.
-------
Or maybe before you design all the comps perhaps take a running poll to see what sort of ranges participants would be able to shoot.
3 static
3 movement
7 static
7 movement
10 S
10 M
etc.
Minimum - Max - Pistol Range
Min - Max - Rifle range
personally, as mentioned, I don't care if not everyone can shoot every single drill. This isn't welfare, or the government. This one may not work for someone, the next one might not work for me, the one after that may not work for someone else. It's just a fact of life.
There is no reason that, if someone wanted to, you couldn't hang the target at 7 and shoot it at 7, or grow the targets by double and shoot it that way, or whatever made them happy.
Remember also that people will have a MONTH to shoot these. Just because someone's regular range may not be friendly doesn't mean they can't go somewhere else and shoot it in an environment that will allow it.
I'll work on the link to the target. this is not THE drill, it's just A drill that I'm proposing.
personally, as mentioned, I don't care if not everyone can shoot every single drill.
10-4... I did the math and it really doesn't size up well anyway. I think I'll just use your idea for a personalize target. I like the idea you came up with.
I've got an idea for a 7 yard pistol deal anyway. Will post if I can get it drawn up.
Ok, this will allow it to be fired indoors, variation of the 1-5 drill, but will use only two targets. You may only have one lane to use and not be able to use 5 bays on a range.
Affix two B8 targets vertically so they do not overlap. I would suggest using the B8 repair centers (B-8C(P) or fold the full sheet if you have those, copies can be used as well. You buy these at pistoleer in 12-100 packs.
Carbine at the ready, which will be stated at a 45 degree angle, muzzle toward the ground in front. Safety applied and stock mounted, finger straight and indexed on lower. Pistol is the same, held two hand supported, safety on if applicable.
Carbine at 10 yards, pistol at 5
On signal, engage in order bottom target with one round, top target with two rounds, bottom target with three rounds, top target with four rounds and bottom target with five rounds. If you have a single stack-deal with it:eek:---I'll throw you guys a bone and this is the variation for the pistol. Same engagement order with the exception of load your mags/pistol so you end up with a slide lock after the four rounds in the top target, reload and finish with the five rounds in the bottom target.
Scoring, time plus. .50 added for each shot in 9 ring, 1 second for each shot in 8 ring, 7 or worse is 5 seconds for each shot. Ties broken with x count(those odds are so slim that you should play the lotto instead)
State time and raw score, break down x, 10, 9, 8 and worse, we can add the penalties(time plus)
We'll do iron sights or red dot in the same category, carbine or pistol.
So how's that for a start?
Oh, minimum .380 for the pistol and 5.45 with the carbine. I don't care if you have a can, brake, baby IPSC loads with ported barrels with bored rifling, etc, you live with yourself.
This is the Feb 2012 match, Rob will do the March match, Rob whatever you want to make up, we will do. Would you roger up for the score collecting?
I think we should move this over to the competition section.
The match is stuck and locked at the top, I'll unlock it for scores only Feb 1
This is the Feb 2012 match, Rob will do the March match, Rob whatever you want to make up, we will do. Would you roger up for the score collecting?
Would a chart suffice? :thank_you2:
Would a chart suffice? :thank_you2:
certainly! however you want to lay it out or if you wanted to collect more info on the guns, etc so an iron shooter can see how he/she does against a dot, etc.
Thanks!
Apricotshot
01-18-12, 19:28
certainly! however you want to lay it out or if you wanted to collect more info on the guns, etc so an iron shooter can see how he/she does against a dot, etc.
Thanks!
Very cool.
sounds like a great idea.
Here's my suggestion. It's a takeoff of the VTAC 1/2&1/2 Drill (http://youtu.be/2-oYRn_llgo).
Carbine
Distance: 5 Yards
Round Count: 30
Target: Link (https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Personal/TSSA/half%20and%20half%20target.pdf?w=a2bc9bb0) (and attached)
Start Position: muzzle depressed at below 45* to the ground, stock in shoulder, hands on pistol grip and forend, looking over top of gun at target.
Scoring: Go/No-Go, report time(s)
Fire 10 rounds into the 2" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 4" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 8" circle. Record time.
All hits must be inside the circle, or breaking the line, to count.
Report fastest times for a full "go". Do not pick and choose this 2" time and that 8" time, but all times from the shortest overall clean run.
2" Time:
4" Time:
8" Time:
# of attempts to get clean run:
Carbine used:
Modifications to stock Carbine:
Ammo used:
Handgun
Distance: 3 Yards
Round Count: 30
Target: Link (https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Personal/TSSA/half%20and%20half%20target.pdf?w=a2bc9bb0) (and attached)
Start Position: Pistol holstered, hands at side.
Scoring: Go/No-Go, report time(s)
Fire 10 rounds into the 2" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 4" Circle. Record time.
Fire 10 rounds into the 8" circle. Record time.
All hits must be inside the circle, or breaking the line, to count.
Report fastest times for a full "go". Do not pick and choose this 2" time and that 8" time, but all times from the shortest overall clean run. Report if shot from concealment or open carry.
2" Time:
4" Time:
8" Time:
# of attempts to get clean run:
Concealed/Open Carry:
Pistol used:
Modifications to stock pistol:
Ammo used:
This looks great.... I would have to get permission from the president of my gun club since they freak out with rate of fire violations. Some old timers ( Bench rest shooters and clay shooters ) complain all the time when I do drills on the range.
:rolleyes:
This looks great.... I would have to get permission from the president of my gun club since they freak out with rate of fire violations. Some old timers ( Bench rest shooters and clay shooters ) complain all the time when I do drills on the range.
:rolleyes:
I am hopeful that we can also have months when the drills are slow-fire and precision-oriented. Perhaps even bench-rest related for those so inclined.
I already have an idea for that in April, which well hopefully have enough interest to get to, but I'll happily step aside if anyone else has an idea for that month/genre.
This all sounds great! All-remember, the feb 2012 match is posted so you can see what it entails, etc.
oh, the B-8C(P) "B-8 repair center, paper and other targets for future use
http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/handgun/
http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/highpower/
I am in, I am also seeing about starting up a similar offering at work....
Here is my suggestion for a basic 100yd marksmanship drill:
*Standard NRA B-8 target repair center set-up @ 100yds
*60 second time limit
*Drill is shot for score. You earn x number of points for the number of the scoring ring(s) you hit with each of your rounds fired within the time limit. For example: 10 ring hits are worth 10 points each, 9 ring hits are worth 9 points each, 8 ring hits are worth 8 points each, etc. *Exception: "X" ring hits are worth 20 points each.
*10 rounds total fired/10 points max per round except for "X" ring hits which will count as 20 points each. *Maximum score of 200 points*
*Any misses off of the repair center target are counted as misses/0 points per miss. Do not assume that a miss just outside of the repair center would count as a 7 ring "hit". A miss is a miss.
Shooters will start out with a loaded rifle on "SAFE" in the standing low-ready position. *NO bipods of any type will be allowed during this stage. This includes "Grip-Pod" style vertical grips* Shooters may rest their magazine on the ground for support. On the beep, shooters will assume a PRONE position, place their rifles on "FIRE", and fire all 10 rounds at their target. A "Cease Fire" will be called at the 60 second mark.
*Any rounds fired after the cease-fire is called will be subtracted from your best hits on-target x how many rounds fired over-time. Example: If you fire 2 rounds over-time and you have 2 (or more) "X" ring hits on your target, you will have -40 points subtracted from your overall score.
chapperjoe
01-19-12, 11:22
the shorter range drills rob proposes will make it easy for everyone with any kind of range to partake.
I drive past a range daily (pembroke, I know, I know) and this would be a pleasure.
Kindly let me (and other new guys) know how we time it, do you recommend a timer? can one person operate it?
thanks.
thopkins22
01-19-12, 11:25
the shorter range drills rob proposes will make it easy for everyone with any kind of range to partake.
I drive past a range daily (pembroke, I know, I know) and this would be a pleasure.
Kindly let me (and other new guys) know how we time it, do you recommend a timer? can one person operate it?
thanks.
You'll need a shot timer, or a shot timer app for your iPhone/Droid/whatever. They will all have the ability to have a delayed start so that one person can operate it.
the shorter range drills rob proposes will make it easy for everyone with any kind of range to partake.
Not really. I can't participate in Feb. or March and I am a member of a 7 - 100 yard range.
I -could- go to an indoor range and spend upwards of $100 to give it a go for the pistol comp.
=====================================
iPhone Timer ( has popular pistol drills configured )
http://dryfiretrainer.blogspot.com/
I'm not looking to be a range snob here, but we are doing rifle drills. Hopefully we do many of the drills at "rifle" distances.
I'm not looking to be a range snob here, but we are doing rifle drills. Hopefully we do many of the drills at "rifle" distances.
We will Dirk, I just came up with something quick for the first one to get it running. rob s is doing the next one and more if he wishes, so I'm certain he will challenge you guys.
I think this will be a good thing, another tool to validate training. You know, it can also be multi part, whatever you guys want. I'll be here to help out.
This will also be an opportunity for you all to meet other shooters, share ideas, equipment and do some training. Please remember, just have fun and challenge yourself, don't be concerned about being "shown-up" Look at as a challenge to get better.
I will try to shoot this with my "weak" hand as my right is in a sling right now.
Mark
Guns are icky. I can't shoot anyway, so I'm out. :jester:
Littlelebowski
01-19-12, 16:26
I'm not looking to be a range snob here, but we are doing rifle drills. Hopefully we do many of the drills at "rifle" distances.
There's a lot of us that do not have a 100 yard range readily accessible.
I'll be running these tonight at the NRA range in Fairfax.
Guys, how about if we wait for this to get off the ground a little bit before we get all down on the whopping TWO months worth that have been posted so far.
Keep the suggestions positive. And let's not let this turn into a "I can't do that" and "I can't do this", but instead let's propose what we CAN do or WANT to do.
We will Dirk......
He called me "Dirk"!:D
He called me "Dirk"!:D
Sorry, all doped up
So we have to wait until Feb 1 at 00:00 to have the Feb match scores count right? Honor system :D
So we have to wait until Feb 1 at 00:00 to have the Feb match scores count right? Honor system :D
Don't wake the neighbors up--
So we have to wait until Feb 1 at 00:00 to have the Feb match scores count right? Honor system :D
I think so. If nothing else it gives the forum staff time to figure out how they want to handle the posting arrangements and such.
I won't shoot mine until late(r) in the month so I'm hoping to see some scores posted to set the bar before then. ;)
Just be reasonable about it. One example is if you are only able to go on Jan 26 before you leave town, etc. I say it's acceptable. Obviously, no deviation from the course instructions. rob s, I'll leave that up to you, you can post current scores or wait until the end. Or simply stating how many have shot it. We all know that some will shoot it, see the scores and go shoot some more if not at all. I want this to be fun, simple to run and not get bogged down in overbearing rules.
I hope this makes sense, meds are kicking in
chapperjoe
01-31-12, 00:50
There's a lot of us that do not have a 100 yard range readily accessible.
I'll be running these tonight at the NRA range in Fairfax.
hot DAMN I miss that place.
Maybe pick one drill per month (the M4C DOTM), so that each progressive month something new is added.
For those participating monthly, by the time they're done with this they'll have accumulated a a YouTube collection of a dozen or more videos of them running drills, likely with some chronological enhancement from beginning to end - this sounds like a winner.
Maybe honorable mentions for best reaction side times, and one for best cinematography/explanation of drill/production value?
thopkins22
01-31-12, 01:42
Maybe pick one drill per month (the M4C DOTM), so that each progressive month something new is added.
It will definitely be a different drill/test/course of fire each month. If it continues on and keeps momentum, I believe that eventually we will see repeats of favorites...at this point I think that it's impossible to say when though.
threeheadeddog
02-01-12, 19:48
One drill I would like to see is something like this
targets like this
23
14
Targets 2 and 3 are set at 25yds and targets 1 and 4 are set at 3yds.
Engaget targets 1-4 in order with 1 round each then engage targets 1-4 in order with 2 rds each. You can shoot in reverse order(4-1) if you wish.
Target scoring could be the same as the Feb. drill or whatever you want.
I have shot many similar drills and I really like that these type of near/far drills require you to change pace and not get stuck in a cadence. I generally shoot either IPSC or IDPA targets but could see using a B-8 and scoring it total points -2x time or something.
Alaskapopo
02-01-12, 22:07
Sounds like a good idea to me. I would also love to see a match at a agreed upon location for M4 members.
Pat
Unlocking the sticky, so post your scores!
rob s is doing a chart for us, he may ask for specific information.
For a start, I would state
Time/raw score(include X/10/9/8/7 or less
irons or red dot--no brand, pics, etc
indicate caliber and pistol or rifle.
Please remember--it's not a picture thread!
Have fun!
Hey, just noticed this hasn't been shot or has anyone shoot this yet? Or is everyone trying to get in on the last minute and win this thing uncontested? :D
I will be on the range for the next 2 weeks come Monday so I think I will give it a go.
Failure2Stop
02-23-12, 00:46
Hey, just noticed this hasn't been shot or has anyone shoot this yet? Or is everyone trying to get in on the last minute and win this thing uncontested? :D
I will be on the range for the next 2 weeks come Monday so I think I will give it a go.
Looks like scores are being posted in the sticky
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97183
We'll be running it with 14 shooters this weekend.
thopkins22
02-23-12, 01:44
I was hoping to see some scores posted to have a goal. :p
Will be shooting it the first part of next week.
I see this at times at side matches, people wait to see how some do and then don't shoot.
I was supposed to shoot it last weekend with 4 other shooters but just flat forgot. My next range day is next Tuesday so I'll be right under the wire. Going to try it with the pistol and the 9mm carbine, I hope.
threeheadeddog
02-23-12, 19:54
I just shot the rifle portion. I will be posting in a sec.
I see room for improvement and plan on shooting both pistol and rifle again this weekend but I figure I will put up my scores anyway.
FWIW I dont regularly shoot rifles much and was supprised to see just how much difference there was between my strings on my first try and my strings on my final try(did three runs). It took me a couple runs to relearn how to control the recoil and it was obvious that the gun was "straightening me up" out of my stance on the 4 and 5 rd strings untill I manned up and held the gun right.
Any chance we can get the details on the March challenge before or on 3/1? Headed out this weekend.
I will also shoot Feb over again for grins with my 2MOA Aimpoint. I have a feeling my eotech's outer ring was affecting my holdovers since im relatively new to eotechs... thats my justification anyway. :D
I think I'm on the hook for March, right?
ETA:
This is what we'll do for March
http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1200983&postcount=17
I'll "fix" the target a bit so it can be printed on two, 8.5"x11".
You will need to print these ACTUAL SIZE don't let the printer/computer scale to fit. The circles should be 2", 4" and 8".
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SFDCC/HalfandHalf8in.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SFDCC/HalfandHalf2-4in.jpg
Failure2Stop
02-29-12, 08:19
Quick note:
The 1/2 and 1/2 is not shot from a low alert (below 45 degrees).
It's shot from a position that puts the muzzle just below the target with the shooter looking over the sight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-oYRn_llgo
Starting from that low will blow the 5 yard time.
I think getting the word out a bit more will help as I ran across the challenge late as I rarely step into the competition forum.
I will also note that I like to shoot the VTAC drill or most drills, from a position where my muzzle is depressed to about 1 meter in front of the base of the target stand. This position is definitely a good bit lower than what is often suggested by many even in the original VTAC. I reference this position as I find that it is a good point where my muzzle is not covering something that it shouldn't be covering but it is still in a very advantageous position for me to quickly snap onto target to still achieve the hits I desire. I find that even from this slightly lower position, the mental process to fire and disengaging the safety, that I am still on target with desired accuracy in the same time frame (similar split times) than with the muzzle in the higher starting position suggested in the VTAC video. In other words the muzzle is on target before the mental process from the brain to the trigger finger takes place. In my latest video of the VTAC 1-5 drill on my channel, I can be seen on the 5 yard line starting too high and I consciously lower my muzzle to where I feel it needs to be as I wait for the beep.
Quick note:
The 1/2 and 1/2 is not shot from a low alert (below 45 degrees).
It's shot from a position that puts the muzzle just below the target with the shooter looking over the sight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-oYRn_llgo
Starting from that low will blow the 5 yard time.
Since we're only reporting times, all that matters is that we're all starting the same way. We're not using the par so there's nothing to "blow" really.
45* gives a consistent start position for each target, and a consistency between shooters.
Failure2Stop
02-29-12, 11:50
Since we're only reporting times, all that matters is that we're all starting the same way. We're not using the par so there's nothing to "blow" really.
45* gives a consistent start position for each target, and a consistency between shooters.
It's hard for a shooter to accurately gauge 45 degrees, whereas pointing at the bottom of the target is very repeatable.
Do it how you want, just sayin'.
Ultimately I don't think it matters. It's not for money or for blood.
Failure2Stop
02-29-12, 12:15
Ultimately I don't think it matters. It's not for money or for blood.
True.
I gave this some more thought when I was driving around at lunch.
Start position has always been a problem with carbine matches. With handgun it's easy because the gun is in a holster, and then it just becomes a matter of hand position, which can also be pretty easily mandated.
I wonder about maybe calling for an "indoor ready" start and defining it as having both wrists touching the body. Without having a rifle with me I can't really mock it up but I can't think of a way to accomplish "both wrists must be touching the body, muzzle oriented towards the ground" other than indoor ready.
and my "blood or money" comment should have come with one of these, so here it is :D
threeheadeddog
02-29-12, 20:04
I would just like to say that I enjoyed the Feb drill and will continue. I thought it was fun to do a drill on a different type target as all of my practice has been on IDPA/IPSC targets, steel, and household items. I have never actually scored on bullseye type target and honestly never had to shoot a drill where the penalty rings started so close to the center. It made me concentrate more.
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