ideal AR standing shooting stance ?

Without using the term “fighting stance” (a pet peeve).
If you have all the time you need and not wearing armor etc….
What is your ideal AR standing shooting stance?

Where exactly do you place the stock-in the pocket formed by the collar bone and shoulder?
Is the full stock in contact with your body:
Body alignment: angled or 180 to target.
Feet: trigger hand side foot 6 inches back, or 3 inches etc.
Foot width: aligned with your body or slightly extended outwards
Knees are bent..but how do you measure forward body learn.
Elbows in: tight contact to body or more relaxed.

Feel free to change the questions if you have better ones with different views or approaches.
TIA

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Originally Posted by p7fl

Without using the term “fighting stance” (a pet peeve).
If you have all the time you need and not wearing armor etc….
What is your ideal AR standing shooting stance?

I would have liked a little more info as to what our goal is, i.e. quick hits inside 50 versus offhand shooting at 200 yards

Where exactly do you place the stock-in the pocket formed by the collar bone and shoulder? I feel the 'pocket' is a look back to stances that involved raising the elbow, I try to mount the AR as close to the centerline of the body as possible

Is the full stock in contact with your body: That would be the ideal, generally I believe the head should be erect as possible in order to look out of the center of the eye's orbit, so that dictates how much of the stock is in the shoulder

Body alignment: angled or 180 to target. Generally pretty square, aids in getting started moving if necessary and always pretty equal 'traverse' if shooting multiples.

Feet: trigger hand side foot 6 inches back, or 3 inches etc. slightly to the rear, toe of strong even with heel of support is about as far as I would say, generally I end up with the toes of the strong foot abot the middle of the support foot

Foot width: aligned with your body or slightly extended outwards Shoulder width apart

Knees are bent..but how do you measure forward body learn. A position of poised alertness. Think a grappling stance ready to move left right, forward, back - that amount of bend at the waist. Another way to put it is breast over toes.

Elbows in: tight contact to body or more relaxed. I generally try to roll the elbows to the centerline of the body if I'm shooting something short enough that I have significant bend of the support elbow, otherwise more neutral

Feel free to change the questions if you have better ones with different views or approaches.
TIA

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I think preferences will largely be based on past experience. I learned tactical (vs. pure marksmanship) shooting initially with the shotgun, then the MP5, then the AR, so my preferences are a result of that evolution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p7fl

Without using the term “fighting stance” (a pet peeve).
If you have all the time you need and not wearing armor etc….
What is your ideal AR standing shooting stance?

I'm presuming that you're talking a known-distance, static range-type situation.

Where exactly do you place the stock-in the pocket formed by the collar bone and shoulder? When we taught rifle fundamentals in the Marine Corps, it was to place the bottom of the buttstock so that you do not have to lower your head to attain cheek-weld.
Is the full stock in contact with your body: See above.
Body alignment: angled or 180 to target. Due to the specific offhand position we taught, we were pretty much perpendicular.
Feet: trigger hand side foot 6 inches back, or 3 inches etc.
Foot width: aligned with your body or slightly extended outwards
Knees are bent..but how do you measure forward body learn. For all of these, we always went with as close to a natural stance as possible; not exaggerating any part.
Elbows in: tight contact to body or more relaxed. In most cases, relaxed is always better.

Feel free to change the questions if you have better ones with different views or approaches.
TIA

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Of course, YMMV; and that is all from memory (which, admittedly is not what it used to be).

I would have liked a little more info as to what our goal is, i.e. quick hits inside 50 versus offhand shooting at 200 yards

Torn rotator cuff has me spending more time with ARs than pistols. Thought it was a good time to take everything down to the most basic level and review what I am doing.
I've taken great carbine classes thru the years with great instructors. But... rust is showing due to lack of a place to fire 223.
Now using 9mm and .22 for Steel Challenge and USPSA. Figured I would break everything down and look at each piece.

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Originally Posted by p7fl

[I]Figured I would break everything down and look at each piece.

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That's essentially what you have to do; for each of the different shooting positions/scenarios. I've got slightly different variations of what constitutes the ideal AR standing stance from the different instructors I've taken classes with; like some prefer the buttstock more extended with a more bladed stance; some teach to retract the buttstock more with a more squared-up stance - usually whatever they've been taught as part of their background and found what works best for them (which makes sense).

The common theme between all of them is to create the most stable shooting platform with your body that you can, with the knowledge that it's impossible for the rifle not to move shooting offhand. It's not just the position of the body or rifle; or where the feet are placed; but also the non-visible factors like body/arm tension, breathing and timing. Some of the more useful tips I took away from those classes were to do with body tension and pulling the rifle firmly into the shoulder with the support hand, rather than just cradling it (for more dynamic vs slow fire target shooting). Another tip was taking the shot at the first good sight picture to minimize fatigue and movement. You know how you have your rifle up and the sights are making that figure 8 on the target? Wait too long and your vision starts going, shoulders and arms get tired and you have to start the cycle over? Practicing breaking that shot at the first good sight picture helped me speed things up and make more accurate hits standing.

Since you've already been through classes with instructors, i'm sure you've heard a lot of the same stuff. Just picking out which bits work better for the individual is just trial and error I've found. Another tip from one instructor was to always practice your 'ideal' shooting stances in all positions - standing, kneeling, squatting, prone etc. And then practice with awkward and unstable shooting positions, like with the wrong foot forward. He said that you aren't always in that ideal shooting position when you have to take that shot (in real life), so be sure to mix it up a bit once you've got the basics down.

If we're talking max standing accuracy, then ...

Attachment 47228

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p7fl

Without using the term “fighting stance” (a pet peeve).
If you have all the time you need and not wearing armor etc….
What is your ideal AR standing shooting stance?

Where exactly do you place the stock-in the pocket formed by the collar bone and shoulder?
Is the full stock in contact with your body:
Body alignment: angled or 180 to target.
Feet: trigger hand side foot 6 inches back, or 3 inches etc.
Foot width: aligned with your body or slightly extended outwards
Knees are bent..but how do you measure forward body learn.
Elbows in: tight contact to body or more relaxed.

Feel free to change the questions if you have better ones with different views or approaches.
TIA

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Is accuracy alone the goal, or putting a number of rounds on a given target, quickly, while being able to move?

Or just controlling the gun outright, like full auto, without moving?

For running and gunning, foot position shouldn't matter except for long strings of fire, stock is in full contact with inside shoulder, edge of chest, shoulder rolled forward..

Dude weighs like 140 and controls 308 better than most guy handle 223. It's technique, but stance alone is overrated imo(foot position). That said I have no credentials, I just like to shoot.
https://youtu.be/oRpM2giA91Y

There is plenty of info online from reputable instructors on shooting stance etc with a rifle.

This is from a sport shooting angle, but shooting fast and accurately is shooting fast and accurately.

You can see my off hand shooting stance here on the different stages during the Rifle World Shoot in Russia earlier this year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDM1z5RsscM

Solid, stable footing and slight forward lean. But I try to be in as balanced / strong stance as possible.

It is somewhat simple, but not always easy.

BEST answer is ...

Practice whatever stance YOU need to establish your 'Natural Point of Aim' (NPA). Well defined in Jim 'Jarhead' Owen's $15 book on offhand high power shooting.

Get in your stsnce, establish a sight picture, do your breaths, etc) get on target & close your eyes. Open them and if off target - adjust your stance. Remember only the back foot moves.

Practice it religiously, even at home w/ an empty arm or snap caps. Stand position can be coupled w/ dry firing exercises. Now before you beat me up ... yes, this is a target stance, however the same regimen can be applied to a tactical or combat stance ... since the OP forbids me from calling it a "fighting" stance.

NPA is an NPA ... you're either in it ... or your not. Anyone can stand however needed to make 1 or 2 good shots. Point is really "muscle memory", as the more you practice it, the faster you can achieve it. FWIW I shoot Schuetzen shooting offhand at 200-yards and practice my NPA position, w/ or without dry firing, 1 to 3X per week. This has improved my offhand shooting ability for ALL shooting disciplines and arms - from muzzleloading flintlocks to milsurp bolt actions to the M1 to M4 platforms.

I am at the point now where I rarely have to adjust my stance to be naturally locked in 'on target'. Try it ... !