M855 and SS109

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08-11-23, 22:00
Slater

M855 and SS109

Are these essentially the exact same round?
08-12-23, 08:26
Alpha-17

SS109 was the round developed by FN during the '70s that got adopted as NATO standard. M855 is the American designation for that cartridge. Essentially the same, but you can get national variations, as each country (or even manufacturer) tended to stray a bit from the core specifications.
08-12-23, 08:28
georgeib

At some point, I don't recall exactly when, I was under the impression that the SS109 was the designation for the actual projectile itself, not the round as a whole.
08-12-23, 08:40
Alpha-17

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeib

At some point, I don't recall exactly when, I was under the impression that the SS109 was the designation for the actual projectile itself, not the round as a whole.

Actually, I had the same thought, but a quick search for SS109 gave up results referring to it as a cartridge/round.
08-12-23, 08:56
DG23

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeib

At some point, I don't recall exactly when, I was under the impression that the SS109 was the designation for the actual projectile itself, not the round as a whole.

There was a time that the bullets (the actual projectiles and not the entire loaded cartridges) were sold as 'SS109' but pretty sure that was just done as a way to identify them as having the steel penetrator core.

I bought a bunch of them back then as they were dirt cheap and I was unaware of just how craptastic they really were as far as accuracy potential is concerned. Not long after I bought in on those the rumors started going around over here about them being 'banned' as some sort of 'armor piercing' projectiles and fools started snapping them up left and right. They fairly quickly began to disappear from vendors inventories everywhere that I used to see them listed regularly.

Once they were mostly gone from the major vendors I began to sell of most of what I had stocked on Gunbroker and such to idiots that 'had to have them because they were soon to be banned'. :o

I kid you not here - The last few bags I sold off went for darn near a dollar per pill. Multiple guys paying a dollar each for those turd projectiles and somehow being 'happy' about it and leaving positive feedback!

If that is not insanity I do not know what is... :)

I bought in at about 5 cents or so per pill and got out at around a dollar. Put all proceeds towards good quality Hornady projectiles in bulk boxes. My mail lady STILL hates me to this day thanks to all of those 50lb Hornady boxes that she kept having to deliver to me! :)
08-12-23, 09:06
Slater

I've seen some of this stuff starting to pop up on websites. Packaged in 35 round boxes for (evidently) Galil mags in Columbia.

https://i.imgur.com/SphkpeR.png
08-12-23, 09:06
georgeib

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha-17

Actually, I had the same thought, but a quick search for SS109 gave up results referring to it as a cartridge/round.

I think this is right. Not sure where/why I got the initial impression about the projectiles being designated that way. Interesting how the same BS being repeated can propagate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG23

There was a time that the bullets (the actual projectiles and not the entire loaded cartridges) were sold as 'SS109' but pretty sure that was just done as a way to identify them as having the steel penetrator core.

I bought a bunch of them back then as they were dirt cheap and I was unaware of just how craptastic they really were as far as accuracy potential is concerned. Not long after I bought in on those the rumors started going around over here about them being 'banned' as some sort of 'armor piercing' projectiles and fools started snapping them up left and right. They fairly quickly began to disappear from vendors inventories everywhere that I used to see them listed regularly.

Once they were mostly gone from the major vendors I began to sell of most of what I had stocked on Gunbroker and such to idiots that 'had to have them because they were soon to be banned'. :o

I kid you not here - The last few bags I sold off went for darn near a dollar per pill. Multiple guys paying a dollar each for those turd projectiles and somehow being 'happy' about it and leaving positive feedback!

If that is not insanity I do not know what is... :)

I bought in at about 5 cents or so per pill and got out at around a dollar. Put all proceeds towards good quality Hornady projectiles in bulk boxes. My mail lady STILL hates me to this day thanks to all of those 50lb Hornady boxes that she kept having to deliver to me! :)

I remember that. People gladly paying a dollar a round for that stuff, and thinking they really got something.

I've got a few cases of m855/ss109 simply because it was cheap enough when I bought it. The bullets do seem to do better than m193 through harder barriers such as steel, but are more of a pain in the butt to shoot as most ranges don't allow them. I've got a small pile of solid core copper ammo for barrier penetration now, so all the m855 stuff is pretty superfluous. Not sure what I'll do with it.
08-12-23, 09:19
DG23

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeib

I've got a few cases of m855/ss109 simply because it was cheap enough when I bought it. The bullets do seem to do better than m193 through harder barriers such as steel, but are more of a pain in the butt to shoot as most ranges don't allow them. I've got a small pile of solid core copper ammo for barrier penetration now, so all the m855 stuff is pretty superfluous. Not sure what I'll do with it.

Somewhere around here I got some small mild steel 3/8" plates around here that are full of holes made from M193 rounds hitting them. :)

Speed matters!

Think 3/8" plates laid on the berm (which is obviously on an angle because it was a dirt hill) and the M193 rounds STILL drilling through them with ease at 100 yards... :)
08-12-23, 09:23
DG23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slater

I've seen some of this stuff starting to pop up on websites. Packaged in 35 round boxes for (evidently) Galil mags in Columbia.

https://i.imgur.com/SphkpeR.png

You don't want it brother. Think 'Minute of Milkjug' ammo and you will be on the correct page.
08-12-23, 17:35
jsbhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG23

Somewhere around here I got some small mild steel 3/8" plates around here that are full of holes made from M193 rounds hitting them. :)

Speed matters!

Velocity works.

There is a Frank Proctor video where he mentions one of his early non-mil classes(after being familiar with how far away plates needed to be for M855) and finding his plates chewed up. His initial thought was something like M995, but it turned out to be genetic M193.

At one of the local 3 gun matches a guy brought .223 45gr varmint loads that chewed up 75 yard steel plates that were unphased by the 55gr 5.56 or .223 ball everyone else used.