I'm surprised this isn't being talked about here.
I found this at TOS.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...ator/XCR-M.jpg
I don't know if it's a fake picture or not, looks real to me.
Printable View
I'm surprised this isn't being talked about here.
I found this at TOS.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...ator/XCR-M.jpg
I don't know if it's a fake picture or not, looks real to me.
Very cool
I wonder how it stacks up price-wise to the SCAR-H and .308 ACR that is *supposedly* in the works. Im guessing decently cheaper than both
That's just the prototype.
I've been to Robarm and seen the drawings of the final version. There are several noteworthy differences.
*sighs*
thats a good looking gun.
care to tells us what some of the differance are? I promise I wll not tell anybody
..........which will be in two weeks......lol/jk:pQuote:
The other changes will be kept close to Robarm till the -M is closer to release.
I wonder what the $$$ will be. Ergonomically perfect, tough internals, rails, and in 308.
Ain't gonna be less than $2,000.
I like a lot of Robarm stuff - but I just can't get past the feeling that if I ever need parts/support in the future it's not going to be available.
They have a track record that speaks to the future deliverables mess I fear.
That's why you buy what you'll need in the next 30 years from the start. What's really important is small parts kits that have pins, springs, trigger components, allen screws (lol some people hate the xcr for that), etc, and a spare BCG/Piston assembley.
The way I see it, it seems like most people barely put enough rounds in their new wonder rifle to cause a parts breakage before they sell it for the next awesome "reload faster than light" rifle that comes out.
I told the engineers at Robarm to get the SBR-M model done ASAP.
That is more my speed
http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/XCRMSBR.JPG
SR/Magpul mags, correct?
That SBR looks wicked.
Wow, I'm liking the SBR version a lot *anxiously awaits to hear price*
That SBR will give you AK-47 ballistics, but with two times the recoil and muzzle blast.
Awesome. :meeting:
The SBR is photoshopped by VB using the original picture.
Just for informations sake.;)
Supposedly, RobArms will be ready to take pre-orders for this rifle in the next couple of weeks. I'm not sure if they will require a deposit, but I'm a little skeptical of the announcement.
You see, I'm an XCR-L owner for the past 3.5 years who has not had a real problem with my weapon. That is because I've only fired about 2000 rounds thru it. While this may seem odd at first, I'll elaborate to clear things up a bit. I bought my XCR-L when it was the first civilian SCAR compliant weapon - a true marvel of modern engineering with ambi bolt release, quick-change barrel, non-reciprocating side charging handle, etc. Things were looking great about 2.5 years ago when Alex promised a SCAR stock, multiple caliber conversions, a 1:7 twist barrel and other goodies. He even hired a talented customer service liaison to coordinate repairs and upgrades.
Fast forward to today and only about 1/2 of the promises have been fulfilled - none in a timely manner. The stock is still not ready for prime time (just a few more weeks guys) and I'm still stuck with a 1:9 twist barrel. In addition, the girl who coordinated their CS shop left and their CS has already started to regress to the Robinson of old.
So, I refuse to invest any real training, time, or funds into a platform that will not evolve and that has no reliable source of parts/support. I just decided to take off the optics and relegate my "perfect" XCR-L to the back of my safe unless someone needs a bludgeoning to the head. I'll spend my time on the range with AR platforms that have reliable support and parts sourcing.
As for the XCR-M, RobArms can kiss my ass if they think that I'm going to send money to pre-order a weapon that has been promised as "almost ready" for 3 years. From what I can tell, their shop is in a state of disarray and cannot handle the support for the XCR-L, not to mention another platform. I especially love how they announced the pending arrival of the XCR-M and then asked, "what barrel lengths do you guys want?" Jeeez....
Well, I think it is sexy!
Thankfully, I caught your post before you went back and edited it
Care to explain why you say you only shot 250 rounds when on 09-18-2009, 03:16 AM you said the following
There is a big difference between 1.5 and 3.5 years (only a year has passed), and even a bigger difference between 250 and 2000...Quote:
I've had an Aimpoint Comp M4 and 3X magnifier mounted on my XCR for 1.5 years - both with Larue mounts. I've never had a problem with several thousand rounds fired. Having said that, this is now a range gun and I've never put it thru a class or run it thru the mud.
So which is it? Correct me if I am completely off base.
All truth, no lies. But nice try.
My original post intended to say something to the effect of 250 rounds without a single malfunction. I've actually put a little over 2K, but I had a couple of misfeeds that were probably mag or break-in related during the first 500-1000 round. Thus, I settled on the more fair and descriptive statement that I've put 2K without major problems since it runs fine now. Please note that the correction was made within 15 min of proof reading.
I originally ran the rifle with the YH irons for the first year, but didn't shoot it that much. I bought it in early Winter 2007. I added the CompM4 when they first came out in late 2007 or early 2008 and the 3X magnifier a short time later. You might note that I invested in these items right around the time that Alex promised the SCAR stock et al.
My argument is not with the performance or design so I have no reason to lie. Instead, it's the poor support that keeps me from trusting the system. Do you disagree?
BTW, the CompM4 and 3x mag are now sitting on a SCAR. Another system that has really dazzled me with a plethora of spare parts and support. Eventually, I'll learn my lesson...
I've maintained that Alex is a brilliant designer. It's his execution when it comes to supporting older projects that leaves much to be desired.
Thus, I'm going focus on updating my other .308 platforms rather than jump head first into the XCR-M. If he is able to bring a reliable package to the market and a steady supply of parts for 4-5 years, I may bite. Until then, no friggen way.
You can get steel cased 7.62 for less than $0.30 a shot. Brass cased for less than $0.50. The cheapest 6.8 I've seen is about $85 a shot. The best 7.62 magazines are PMAGs which are less than $20. In order to get 6.8 magazines that are of equal quality you'd have to go with PRI magazines which are just under $40.
Don't get me wrong, I think that the 6.8 is the ideal assault rifle cartridge, but it just isn't economical viable for most people when 5.56 or other alternatives are so much cheaper and more developed.
Thread drift......let's get back on track.
price wise, the number of $2495 has been bandied about
Frankly I respect that the company has asked the community what they want for a barrel length option, and what caliber conversions they would like to see.
18.6" seems to be the most popular request, followed by the 16" and 20" versions. Personally I think they will release two barrel lengths. I've been told that the longer barrels need a differnt gas block position than the shorter ones, so I'll bet we see one in a 20" and one in a 16". It appears that the only option up front will be a heavy barrel, but you never know.
as to caliber conversions it looks like 260 and 243 are the most popular, although personally I've never actually seen any .260 ammo for sale anywhere. I expect folks will figure that out after they buy the conversion kit tho.
the new stock is planned for release as well. I'd also expect to see the ambi mag release on the -M too.
this is all just my SWAG based on several conversations with Alex in the past as well as bits and pieces of intel gathered recently from various sources that I trust to be accurate.
VB is bound by a non Disclosure Agreement, so he cant say much to confirm anything, I am not bound by that but dont have nearly the access either.
All of this is of course subject to the whims of the supply and production system and the designer, so it could change tomorrow.
Jack-O,
As we've discussed on other forums, I'm a little skeptical that the XCR-M will be ready for prime time when it is released. For the benefit of those not following TOS, there are several reasons for the skepticism. First, we've heard similar claims as far back as 3 years ago. Also, there are no pictures of production models. Finally, my concern about the solicitation of barrel lengths is based on the notion that the piston system will have to differ depending on barrel length. This implies that the consumers will beta-test the early production models if the weapon is released in a couple of months.
Also, I'd much rather see RobArms improve their service and support for existing platforms rather that add a whole new system to support.
Anyway, I'm willing to eat some crow if there is a successful release of the XCR-M with reliable support and service in a couple of months.
Somehow I don't see this showing up any time soon. The "improved stock" has been talked about since I first found about the XCR (about 2 years ago). I'm with other folks, I think they should make sure they can support the existing product line before jumping into a new pool and trying to swim. Just my 2 cents.
Rated21R: And what makes you think they cannot support the existing product line? I have never had a problem getting spare parts or any upgrades I wanted to make. That includes the new designed gas plug when it came out, the new designed trigger when it came out, new design bolt stop and ambi-safety. In fact I have been able to get anything I have ordered (short of a new rifle) in a week or so. There was a recall on "some" (low serial numbers) firing pin's and bolts. They sent me new ones without haveing to send them my old ones first.
Just my experience with RA so far during the past 6 years,
MadDog (yes, that is how long I have had my XCR)
Some comments apparently from Alex, under the screen name "kolob".
Quote:
OK. Some Comments.
We had a design for this rifle over 6 years ago. However, we had to completely redesign and re-test all the major parts - upper, lower, bolt, barrel, extension, carrier, operating rod, etc. We could not use our design from years ago because it was done wrong and would not have worked. Anyone who think that this is just a "scale up" knows very little about firearms design.
The picture that was posted gives you the general idea but you are all trying guess too much. The upper receiver of the production units will be longer. It is not known yet whether or not the gas system will be completely covered by upper receiver. The upper receiver has 1913 rails that are not grooved down the middle. (We can groove them if you want us to for an additional charge).
The barrel is not stainless. It's just a test unit and we were just too lazy to phosphate finish the barrel. The chrome lined 18.6" barrel shoots under .75" and under repeatedly. It's 1/10 shooting 168 gr stuff. We'll probably offer both 1/10 and 1/12.
The controls are completely ambidextrous except the charging handle. If the rifle were turned over, it looks exactly like you think it would. No there is not and there will never be a folding charging handle. The hole purpose of the charging handle is so you can get to it quickly.
The design of the XCR-M is actually more refined than the XCR-L. Better fit and finish. We incorporated all we learned from five years of making the the XCR-L into the XCR-M. THERE WILL BE NO UPGRADES OR CHANGES TO THIS DESIGN. We do plan to offer .260 and .243 Remington calibers shortly after we begin selling the .30
It will have a variety of options for stocks including our new do it all stock. The stock is not going to be shown until we're ready to do so (which shouldn't be too much longer). I don't want copycats like Fagpul and Femington to see it just yet. I will say that the stock is almost all metal and there's only plastic for the butt pad and adjustable cheek rest.
The price is going to be about $2500 retail including the new stock. I guaranty it will be worth it.
It does have a lot of parts commonality with the XCR-L. There's only about 25 parts that are different from the XCR-L but they're big parts. The M uses all the same trigger parts, bolt hold open, etc
We may also make our own sights for this rifle. Feel free to give us suggestions on the rifle or sight. Email us at tech@robarm.com.
We'll post some pics of the finalized rifle with the new stock shortly.
http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,8394.0/all.htmlQuote:
Just a couple more comments:
VB and Aziator have signed NDA agreements. That's the only way they have gotten sneak peeks at stuff. We let them have sneak peaks so they can comment on our stuff without us loosing the right to receive patents etc. I wish I could show you all the stuff as soon as I think of it and get your opinion before wasting hundreds of thousands or millions of development dollars.
Regarding service, we miss Terra. She was not fired but needed a change. We fired all the remaining service and assembly staff and rehired some young vibrant guys who care about the quality of the work they're doing. The goal is to never ship a less than perfect firearm. We have have made radical changes in our assembly and service department that will ensure that we don't miss anything. It may still happen but very infrequently. The design of the XCR is good. When the parts are made right, the rifle is AK reliable or very close to it.
All rifles and parts leaving the factory right now have to go through two levels of scrutiny in an effort to make sure each rifle works perfectly. It takes a little longer but will result in a much better customer experience. By the end of the month, we should be able to turn around service problems in less than a week provided we are not missing a certain barrel in a certain configuration. It takes a couple weeks for us to turn around barrels.
Regarding the Color of the XCR-M, we will offer Black, OD Green, FDE, and perhaps some other colors.