Considering FoxLabs 5.3, want something that is less-than-lethal as an option.
Any suggestions on product or technique are appreciated.
Thinking stream
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Considering FoxLabs 5.3, want something that is less-than-lethal as an option.
Any suggestions on product or technique are appreciated.
Thinking stream
Fox (my preference) and Saber seem to be the go to brands and used by most PDs and such. I have never used my OC so can't comment on real world personal experience, but the LEOs I know who deployed Fox, said it was usually highly effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceofreason
Just remember this: Spray, move, wait. Each time I've had a face full of OC it has taken a few seconds for it to start to take effect.
Fox or Saber are my choices for personally bought OC. If you spray OC, even with a stream, keep in mind that some of it will come back to hit you.
Chuck Haggard (peace be unto him) recommends Sabre Red.
http://agiletactical.com/
Chuck is a recognized expert and trainer on pepper spray. I'm taking his pepper spray instructor class this fall. He does a great training class on OC called "Between a gun and a harsh word." You should take it.
I like the Sabre Red MK6 for ease of deployment and carry. https://www.copsplus.com/sabre-sabre...delivery-spray
John Murphy is a fan of that carrier as well. He's another solid dude when it comes to learning how to effectively use OC.
I also have a big-ass can of liquid hate (Fox Mean Green) by the front door as well.
I think it was Craig Douglas (Southnarc) who called OC "a right cross in a can."
Sabre Red is highly effective. I don’t carry it at work any more for several reasons, mainly the policy’s and compatibility of chemical sprays and tasers. But if you deploy it as stated be prepared to get it on you as stated. Every deployment I have been around has gotten on the subject and all the officers. I would suggest seeking training, one in which you will be sprayed.
I've seen good effects with Fox and Sabre products.
Take Chuck Haggard's class first, as mentioned by SeriousStudent. He covers a lot of fact, fiction, and marketing hype surrounding OC. His practical exercises are also high quality.
I wrote the OC class review on Chuck's website. Link below:
http://agiletactical.com/student-aar...n-mchenry-ill/
I used to carry SabreRed and it was very effective. I now carry Vexor (issued, not by choice) and haven’t seen it’s effects yet. I’d advise with using a liquid spray as opposed to foam as foam can be wiped off an assailant.
Good AAR, thank you for posting that link. Chuck is a solid dude, and I recommend his classes very highly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chameleox
My department switched to Saber Red several years ago. The previously issued spray was very effective, but Saber is even better. We've stayed with cone-shaped sprays. While there is a greater risk of cross-contamination, the cone provides a much better chance of a one-shot stop. It also discourages crowds.
.I also second Haggard as an OC SME. He has an article in the current issue of "Concealment". It's not a training class, but it does provide some insight.
If you want something that really works, try Freeze+P. It’s the best of the best. It’s a blend of CS and OC. Very effective. You are just playing games with that other stuff.
Good luck!
I was issued Saber Red. Being on the receiving end of it during training, I can tell you that it works. Almost too well. Was definitely the worst pain I've ever felt, not to mention it kept reactivating for the next day or two every time I took a shower.
when you get sprayed, the most important thing is not to panic. It hurts like all hell and will make it difficult to breath, but if you can, get control and realize that even though it may not seem like it, you are breathing just fine. There's really no advice for not panicking, for when the pain sets in you will forget it all anyways. However, I can tell you, after decon, what helped me and alot of my fellow recruits was to jog around (we had a small field next to where we deconed) doing the best we could to keep our eyes open. The wind against your eyes while you're jogging provides alot of pain relief and the physical aspect of a brisk jog forces you to get your breathing under control and helps clear out your sinuses and lungs. Good luck man.
My Dept issues Saber Red.
I’ve used Saber and it sucks. The best I have ever used is Freeze +P. It takes the fight out of everyone I have ever used it on. The best OC ever made!Quote:
Originally Posted by WillBrink
Also issued Sabre Red Crossfire, works great. I don't care to experiment that again.
We currently issue Sabre red in gel. It has proven to be very effective. I’m currently an instructor for Sabre red, and have been for pretty much all other OC / less lethal. I was ( and still am somewhat ) a fan of Freeze +P due to the OC / CS mix. The CS really messes with people their lungs burn.
I have used the Sabre red on people and dogs- have been impressed with the results.
That's because you were sprayed TOO LONG. When I've used it, and I used to use it so much they called my the "juicemaster", it's about a half a second, very quick spray. The carrier agent MUST evaporate for the capsaicin to take effect. And... if you spray them... and it isn't working, and you spray again... you delay it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal
Learn from my experience... short, micro bursts act the fastest.
And fox labs feels like you have your head up the devil's ass.
Gel is the absolute WORST to use. You can literally wipe it off....the carrier agent is too thick.....pepper spray only takes full effect when the carrier has evaporated.Quote:
Originally Posted by quackhead
I have heard mixed reviews of Saber over the years, review of Fox has been dead consistent as to its effectiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Entryteam
Most folks recommend POM OC these days.
My current department issue Sabre Red gel. Any recommendations on tactics for its use? We used Sabre Red cone at my previous agency where I ran the OC program. Gel seems a little more challenging to deploy, especially with the limited training given our personnel. Thanks and be safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by quackhead