Bushmaster ACR: Not Quite Dead Yet?

So The Firearm Blog recently reported a bit of interesting news out of the Bushmaster booth at SHOT show this year. Apparently Bushmaster was showing off a few "new" variations of the ACR at their booth this year. They had a DMR model that consisted of a longer barrel and a PRS stock (I'm fairly certain this model is a few years old, but apparently it's now "new" again) and a new PDW version which basically consisted of a 10.5" barrel plugged into a standard "Enhanced" ACR.

The bigger news is that they are supposed to now be offering factory 5.56mm barrels in 10.5", 14.5", 16", and 18.5" lengths. And while there is nothing definite, the rep hinted that more ACR related will products are slated to be released later in the year. Me thinks .300 Blk barrels are a likely candidate if this whole announcement is more than just the same old vaporware they've been hocking for the past 8 years.

Personally I think the platform still has some potential in it, but it's going to take quite a bit more from Bushmaster than a few different length factory 5.56 barrels to make this gun a winner. Still, I was sort of expecting the ACR to be axed from their lineup for this year, so I guess it's not all that bad.

As an ACR owner and fan, I was happy to see this. I think the fact that the guns can now be found new for ~$1,500 there is starting to be a renewed interest in them.

I had one of the first gens before I sold it a couple years ago. Other than being a little heavy, it was a decent performer. I liked the forward charging handle and ambi- mag/bolt controls. That was before everybody's lowers started to sport the same features. But the real reason I bought into it was the caliber changing capability, and when that didn't materialize it went up for sale. I'd maybe think about another one down the road, but I'll never bite on a platform like that again without seeing all the accessories out on the market already. No more of this 'coming Q3 next year' stuff. I will add that I thought the V2 they were developing for military use looked pretty slick. It was definitely a platform with potential.

Ummm... Make the Remington version

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Bushmaster is only a name. It's basically a Remington made rifle now. The Bushmaster parent company owns Remington as well. When they bought Bushmaster, they wanted the ACR and AR15 production capabilities for Remington. They gutted Bushmaster (which later became Windham Weaponary) took what they wanted and left the rest. When you buy Bushmaster parts you call a Remington facility. The parts come in a Bushmaster marked box with a Remington invoice. All the rifles are marked Bushmaster but the roll marked address on the later rifles is from a Remington Manufacturing Plant. They may as well just mark them Remington. I was a big fan and had several ACR rifles. I had conversions in 5.56x45 with a 1/7 FN barrel (1/7 twist was not available from the factory), 5,45x39, 6.8 ARP, 7,62x39 and was the first person to buy ACR gas system parts directly from Remington several years ago. That's a story in itself. Many people didn't realize that the ACR used production AR15 barrels. You just needed gas system and ACR barrel parts to make conversions. Technically, I did not have a 6.8 conversion but I did have the barrel and the conversion parts. I sold them before completing the conversion.

Honestly, these are great rifles and I loved the platform. My rifles were good shooters but lacked the accuracy that I wanted out of them, even in 5.56. I put a lot of money into the ACRs but switched to a different rifle platform because of the lack of factory support for it. Most of the support for the rifle came from members of the ACR Forum. If you are interested in the rifle, I suggest going there to get more information. The members there are great and very helpful.

The Masada concept from Magpul was sound and deserves a second chance. Magpul made all the plastics for the ACR and licensed all the conversion parts to Bushmaster. Which is probably why they kept the Bushmaster name. I'd like to see Remington finally do something with the ACR!

SamM

I was excited about the ACR until it came out. Bushmaster has just done a terrible job handling the platform. Knowing what I know about Bushmaster all these years later, I still can't get excited now that they might fulfill the Adaptive portion of the promise. It just seems too little, too late. I just don't trust Remington Outdoor Group to get a product right anymore.

I remember being told by Remington reps years ago that, "6.8mm conversion kits will be out by the end of the year," and, "6.8mm conversion kits will be out in three months."

Didn't happen. So I'd take anything Remington or Bushmaster says they're going to do with the ACR with a grain of salt; I'll believe it when I see it.

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I'll believe it when I see it.

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That's the most mentioned phrase, either spoken and posted, when conversing about the ACR.

SamM

Anyone watch the youtube or Full30 channel Forgotten Weapons? If Ian hangs on for about 20 or 30 more years I would expect him to have an ACR on the channel. I hate to say it, but the rifle is dead unless Freedom group, Remington, and Bushy remove head collectively from throat, because it has far surpassed their ass, and gone up more than just a little ways past. Before I get hate mail, bring it on by the way I kind of bored, I don't see them doing anything with it, and honestly I am not sure they want it to succeed. I remember when it was announced and the fanfare and I only owned a Bushy AR at the time and I was hoping Magpul would going into the rifle manufacturing business and how I wanted to see Costa roll out this as the next greatest thing, the successor to the AR the rifle that we would fight Cthulhu with. And then they sold it to Bushy and even though I owned a Bushy, I was learning, and I knew that all was lost, and bought my first BCM middy upper and felt vindicated when I saw ACRs NOT show up in droves, and I rocked on and shot on. At this point having seen what Bushy has done(Which is to say nothing), and seen what Remington has done(Which is to say ****ed the pooch with a Minivan and pissed off their dealers, on at least one side of their market) I could really give a **** about them.

I visited the Bushmaster website thinking surely they had increased support and part availability. I saw the "under construction" notice and the catalog download. I hoped there would be good news soon. That was almost a year ago and not much has changed.

The ACR is a sad story. It seems like it was a very sound design, and with better quality control and some tweaking, it would be an excellent rifle. I wish a good company like BCM could get a hold of the design and run with it.

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Originally Posted by BoringGuy45

The ACR is a sad story. It seems like it was a very sound design, and with better quality control and some tweaking, it would be an excellent rifle. I wish a good company like BCM could get a hold of the design and run with it.

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If they actually put effort into it, I would have one. You have a sub-par company that half-assed the thing. Then they say "now well come out with the real version" (remmington), but never do. The whole thing was a cluster and the moment has passed. I've decided to stick with ARS and 1 ak.

Honestly, what were they thinking? Who runs a company like that?

Shareholders who are cashing in on a historically good name and care little for what happens to the company when they sell their stock next quarter.

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Originally Posted by Dionysusigma

Shareholders who are cashing in on a historically good name and care little for what happens to the company when they sell their stock next quarter.

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That's a big thing: Name recognition can override any need to create good quality products, especially in a set-in-our-ways type of community like gun enthusiasts. During my time behind the counter, I told many a customer that Remington is not the same Remington quality you probably think it is. And also, Bushmaster was once "among the best of what was available", but with offerings from Colt, BCM, DD, etc, it's now a pretty forgettable AR. And inevitably, I'd get the same kinds of responses: "I use nothing but Remington, my daddy used nothing but Remington, his daddy used nothing but Remington, and I've been shooting guns since before you were born, so I think I know a little more than you about Remington!"

Because of stuff like that, they keep buying it up, and Remington/Bushmaster has no incentive to offer anything better quality.

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Originally Posted by BoringGuy45

The ACR is a sad story. It seems like it was a very sound design, and with better quality control and some tweaking, it would be an excellent rifle. I wish a good company like BCM could get a hold of the design and run with it.

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This is a common story unfortunately. The Robinson M96 was absolutely awesome, and I loved mine, except for having no real expectation of support or parts availability, so I sold it before anything broke. The Robinson XCR looks awesome but I am not interested in gambling. The Bushhamster ACR looks great, but anyone in this thread knows its pathetic tale of late arrival and near immediate abandonment. The much older Bushhamster M17S was kinda cool too. The original Armalite AR-180 was nice, but it appears most of the production went to the IRA, and the reproduction AR-180 from Armalite, Inc. of Illinois was half crippled and barely supported, and it too is gone and unsupported now.

This is why virtually everything I collect or shoot now is either a military-adopted design (AR-15, AKM) or if solely commercial, at least a hugely widespread design (Ruger 10/22, Remington 700). If something is purely commercial and doesn't break 100,000 units, it's probably going to be orphaned young. My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by BoringGuy45

The ACR is a sad story. It seems like it was a very sound design, and with better quality control and some tweaking, it would be an excellent rifle. I wish a good company like BCM could get a hold of the design and run with it.

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Yep. I don't have time to play the "Is Bushmaster really Remington or are they all Bushmasters now?" game.

What's the reasoning for the Remington ACR, parts, support, etc. only being available to the govt? I'm sure that's turned off a lot of would-be ACR buyers like myself.

http://remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Carbines/ACR.aspx

I have always been a fan of it, but I was talked out of buying one by the fine people here when I first got on the site. If it gets some love, and is proven to improve upon design, I may pick one up down the road and put it through it's paces. We will see. If they don't release the MDR soon it's going to be the ACR sequel.

Brownells now has the 5.56x45 barrel assemblies in stock.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...rearms+int.llc.

I'd sure like to know the weight of each one so that I can compare them to my original factory barrel. I'd also like to know if the 14.5" barrel's flash hider adapter is permanently attached so that it wouldn't make the rifle an SBR.

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Originally Posted by Bret

Brownells now has the 5.56x45 barrel assemblies in stock.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...rearms+int.llc.

I'd sure like to know the weight of each one so that I can compare them to my original factory barrel. I'd also like to know if the 14.5" barrel's flash hider adapter is permanently attached so that it wouldn't make the rifle an SBR.

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There's a thread going in the ACR section of TOS that has a few people who have posted weight and picture comparisons. IIRC the weight difference is basically non existent as the profile they use is the same as the stock barrels except they eliminated the M203 notch.

If Remington could get the ACR design worked out- that could save their company.

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Originally Posted by 7n6

If Remington could get the ACR design worked out- that could save their company.

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The problem is they could. If anyone could why wouldn't it be them. But they refuse to. Remington has the resources and manufacturing ability to make the greatest anything they want.

When I see the Remington name I avoid it. Hows that for brand recognition.

It seems they have the hardware, but lack the management to pull the trigger, or technical expertise in-house still to pull it off. Hard to tell from the outside, but I avoid them now as well... just based off what I've seen with their ammo 1st hand.

The thing is it seems like they have for the most part worked out the design. Take a look at the Remington Defense website and you can see their version of the ACR that they have previously submitted in several weapons trials. It has a more modern handguard that, with a few minor changes, could be updated to M-Lok standards. The lower has been upgraded to feature a replaceable pistol grip, and the barrels have been reprofiled to be much lighter.

If Remington would release that gun to the civilian market without blowing up the price they would have a winner on their hands. Yet management at Remington just seems to have their heads up their asses.

Aren't Remington's "Sniper Rifles" like no shit $8,000?

I just am blown away that a small outfit in Wisconsin can innovate so much and motherfreaking Remington is essentially selling 1990s Ford Escorts.

Remington is a brand that I also avoid. I don't like what they have done with the ACR platform, at all. This rifle could have been win, win but they screwed it up.

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Originally Posted by Eurodriver

Aren't Remington's "Sniper Rifles" like no shit $8,000?

I just am blown away that a small outfit in Wisconsin can innovate so much and motherfreaking Remington is essentially selling 1990s Ford Escorts.

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Actually the number that is in my head for some reason is $16k. However, regardless the price, it was a full package deal with everything including optic and I believe repair and parts replacement for the service life of the rifle. Not defending them, just providing facts. Can tear them apart for a lot of other things. Murdering a perfectly fine rifle design among them.

The ACR has represented the most unrealized potential of any rifle on the market over the last 5 years. The real shame is that you can look at photos of the exact configuration that consumers want to spend money on being touted at trade shows or Remington defense online. The ACR was among the most interesting ground up designs of what a modern rifle should be and existed on the market for nearly a decade before many manufacturers have been able to catch up. If you look at the new rifles that people are drooling over such as the HK 433 and MSBS they are very similar to the ACR that Remington Defense has been teasing for years.

If Remington would release the Remington defense ACR with the magnesium lower, redesigned m-lok handguard, and a barrel w 1/7 twist in a smart profile and you would have a winner. They are 98% of the way there but someone that matters just isn't being cc'd in emails. Remington desperately needs a win as they have proven completely unable to produce a winning product in recent times. R51,RM380, 877, 782, R51 2.0 and RP9 top their resume over the last 5 years and yet they have a product line with a part numbers assigned that would be competitive. Yet management just sits on it.

But I have never completely understood Remington. It seems that one of their longest running traditions is completely dropping the ball on good ideas. .260rem, 6.8spc, ACR, screwing up the 700, AAC(which was positioned to be THE silencer manufacturer), the R51, RP9, MSR(mk21 PSR) have all proven that we shouldn't expect a lot from Remington. The only thing that has come from Remington outdoors that wasn't DOA in the last decade was the 300blk. Which wasn't an original idea, had massive help from industry, and they ran the people involved out of the company. Which is a shame, and a clue.

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Originally Posted by Kain

Actually the number that is in my head for some reason is $16k. However, regardless the price, it was a full package deal with everything including optic and I believe repair and parts replacement for the service life of the rifle. Not defending them, just providing facts. Can tear them apart for a lot of other things. Murdering a perfectly fine rifle design among them.

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EuroOptics has an MSR kit for $21K, but it comes without a scope. The 2015 full package included a Leupold Mark 4 and an AAC Titan QD with all three caliber conversions.