Drop in (2 piece) free float handguards.

Hi guys. This is my first post here, although I've been lurking around for the last few weeks after deciding to finally start my first AR build (thanks to my wife and a stipped lower Christmas present). Before deciding to post I was able to read through and research from this similar thread, among other places, but it's pretty old and I didn't want to necro, so I'm hoping for some updated info. I also hope I'm posting in the correct forums to keep all the mods happy. ;)

To date, I've been collecting up parts, but now I'm stuck on hand guards. I've got a 16" mid length BCM upper barrel assembly with an A2 front sight that I'm not looking to remove or replace, partly because I'd hate to screw up a top notch piece of equipment with my noobiness, and thanks in no small part to this scary thread, but also because I like the look and I wanted a front sight mounted to the barrel/gas block vs. the rail. I really like the idea of drop in free float rails, but the only ones I can seem to find are the Centurion C4, Troy, MI Gen II, and Daniel Defense Omega rails. Of those I think I like the DD or MI versions best, but I was hoping to avoid a quad rail in favor of something a little more smooth and round.

In contrast to those free float versions, I also like the MI 2 piece Keymod or M-Lok drop in's, as they're more the shape and feel I'm looking for, but ofc they're not free float. So now I find myself in the same position as so many others before me, what decision should I make? Does anybody have any advice for me, or can anybody point me towards a free float solution that I've missed or not considered? Am I a dummy to care about the quad rail? There are options for rail covers after all, and plenty of people seem to like them. Sometimes it just takes a different viewpoint to make a good point or change the perspective, so any input is appreciated.

I believe Troy made the Delta rail for exactly this reason, but it is difficult to find now. Of the rails you mentioned, I would go with the C4. Rail is rock solid, relatively light weight, free float, and locks up to a standard barrel nut. They can be difficult to find as well, but of your choices, that would be my first and only. If you want to get away from a Quad and get a more rounded rail (like most out now), there are a ton of offerings in Keymod and MLok, but I don't remember seeing any that would work with a FSP in the way you want it to. If you want to go that route, you may just have to bite the bullet, shave down the FSP, and put a new rail over it.

What do you want to mount to the handguard? If you're just mounting a light and maybe some kind of control accessory, the MI drop-in's are fantastic. I have a set of the KeyMod drop-in's that I use to mount an M600U, and they're lighter than polymer handguards, they offer a more streamlined light placement than the polymer choices, and they're thin, which I like.

Of the ones you've listed, I've used the drop-in MI's of course, MI's two-piece free-float quad rails in a couple different lengths, and a couple C4's on rifles that weren't my own. The C4 is a better design than the MI of similar style, so between those, I'd go with Centurion's design. My MI's held up fine, but I will go C4 in the future if I need a two-piece free-float. And between free-float or drop-in on general purpose rifles, I really don't care. If I'm not mounting something that requires being zeroed, and I'm not going to run a bipod or a sling as support, I'll pick whatever offers a form factor I prefer. If you want a slimmer handguard, go with the MI drop-in's or pop the FSB off for a KMR9A or similar.

And don't sweat a BCM FSB removal. I actually quoted BCM's how-to in the thread you linked, and it's a very easy process. I wouldn't, and haven't, let that drive my choice of handguard.

Voting on a non drop in free float too. Just make sure you can get the taper pins loose before buying.

That being said, I have a delta rail and it is nice. Just looked a few ebay sellers have the Troy and Vtac deltas listed.

Scratch that advice. Carbine deltas listed. Only 1 used mid delta listed.

I've always heard that the C4 is the go-to rail for those who don't want to remove the FSB and use the existing barrel nut.

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Originally Posted by tehpwnag3

I've always heard that the C4 is the go-to rail for those who don't want to remove the FSB and use the existing barrel nut.

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+1 C4 is the way to go if you want to keep your FSB.

Another option would be to shave the FSB and install another rail that utilizes the standard barrel nut.

I have the C4, but dislike the quad-rail section. I have been thinking about milling off the side and bottom rails.

Seems like there would be a market for a modern (keymod, mlock), tight-locking, free-float drop in rail.

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Originally Posted by trackmagic

I have the C4, but dislike the quad-rail section. I have been thinking about milling off the side and bottom rails.

Seems like there would be a market for a modern (keymod, mlock), tight-locking, free-float drop in rail.

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They're out there. Troy is one company that makes them. Link You're going to need a low profile gas block or shaved FSB to make it work.

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Originally Posted by 556BlackRifle

They're out there. Troy is one company that makes them. Link You're going to need a low profile gas block or shaved FSB to make it work.

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Someone at Troy doesn't have all the details on feet and inches down :rolleyes:

I own a DD Omega 9 inch rail that I installed on a BCM 16inch middy for similar reasons to you OP. Not wanting to muck up the upper.

First, I haven't used the Centurion rail, but I do have the opinion that the lock up is probably more solid. That said, I have not had any issue with the DD rail loosening up over the two years I have had. With that out of the way, the DD rail installed pretty easily, I think I used all off three tools, an allen head wrench, a flat head screw driver, and a old ACOG mount. Probably spent more time lining the top rail up than actually installing it and it works as advertised. Was it my first choice of rails? No, but got it silly cheap, like $160 on clearance from Rainier I think and since that rifle was at the time my pseudo DMR think a freefloated rail made sense. Currently though, it has an M600U with an SR07 pressure switch and a BCM vg with some larue index clips. The light and VG I could have kept with by using the MOE handguard that I had on there and I had printed more than respectable groups with that, the desire, that never happened, was to have the rail to mount a bipod. The DD rail is also rather, girthy. It isn't a rail you are going to wrap your fingers all the way around unless you are some freak of nature.

If you know what you are wanting to do with the rifle then grab the rail that you want. If you don't know, I'd honestly consider just slapping on a set of regular handguards or an MOE handguard and figuring out what you want to do with the rifle. Sometimes, I think the problem with ARs is that we have entirely too damn many options.

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Originally Posted by JasonB1

Someone at Troy doesn't have all the details on feet and inches down :rolleyes:

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And that ain't the half of it. ;)

But that discussion is for another thread on another forum.

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Originally Posted by Mr McSimon

Hi guys. This is my first post here, although I've been lurking around for the last few weeks after deciding to finally start my first AR build (thanks to my wife and a stipped lower Christmas present). Before deciding to post I was able to read through and research from this similar thread, among other places, but it's pretty old and I didn't want to necro, so I'm hoping for some updated info. I also hope I'm posting in the correct forums to keep all the mods happy. ;)

To date, I've been collecting up parts, but now I'm stuck on hand guards. I've got a 16" mid length BCM upper barrel assembly with an A2 front sight that I'm not looking to remove or replace, partly because I'd hate to screw up a top notch piece of equipment with my noobiness, and thanks in no small part to this scary thread, but also because I like the look and I wanted a front sight mounted to the barrel/gas block vs. the rail. I really like the idea of drop in free float rails, but the only ones I can seem to find are the Centurion C4, Troy, MI Gen II, and Daniel Defense Omega rails. Of those I think I like the DD or MI versions best, but I was hoping to avoid a quad rail in favor of something a little more smooth and round.

In contrast to those free float versions, I also like the MI 2 piece Keymod or M-Lok drop in's, as they're more the shape and feel I'm looking for, but ofc they're not free float. So now I find myself in the same position as so many others before me, what decision should I make? Does anybody have any advice for me, or can anybody point me towards a free float solution that I've missed or not considered? Am I a dummy to care about the quad rail? There are options for rail covers after all, and plenty of people seem to like them. Sometimes it just takes a different viewpoint to make a good point or change the perspective, so any input is appreciated.

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Not my cup of tea, but here's an inexpensive option that seems to fit your desires. http://lmgguns.com/product.utg-pro-4...im-hndgrd-carb

BCM is allergic to UTG...

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Originally Posted by Locutus

Not my cup of tea, but here's an inexpensive option that seems to fit your desires. http://lmgguns.com/product.utg-pro-4...im-hndgrd-carb

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Originally Posted by tehpwnag3

BCM is allergic to UTG...

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Generally I would agree with you - I made the mistake of buying a UTG "A2 rear sight" several years ago. However, as long as the handguard doesn't rattle or pop out, then there's very little to go wrong. I won't be a snob about brands if the part does it's job well.

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Originally Posted by tehpwnag3

I've always heard that the C4 is the go-to rail for those who don't want to remove the FSB and use the existing barrel nut.

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Agreed, I own my fair share of them, and really like them.

Thanks for the replies everybody, keep 'em coming. There's some great points being made and this thread is very helpful so far.

I have a Troy Delta and VTAC Delta, and I really like the feel of them. They've been rock solid for several years, and are very comfortable non-quad rails. I'd recommend the Delta particularly if you're looking for something that isn't a quad rail. A few more threads for you to browse.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...-cut-out-rails

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...sh-hider-upper

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...one-have-input

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...tac-alpha-rail

I do keep coming back to the Centurion C4 cutout. Do you need to remove the triangle handguard cap to make it fit though? That would seem to defeat the purpose, but I haven't found any info one way or the other yet.

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Originally Posted by Mr McSimon

I do keep coming back to the Centurion C4 cutout. Do you need to remove the triangle handguard cap to make it fit though? That would seem to defeat the purpose, but I haven't found any info one way or the other yet.

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You can just snip it off. You also remove the delta ring assembly.

According to this
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...rail/32154527/

The hand guard cap and slip ring both have to go.

This is opposite of the Troy Delta because leaving the cap off leaves a gap exposing enough gas tube to get fingers on and presumably less protected against damage.

It takes five min to remove the ring and is worth it imo.


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Originally Posted by jstalford

It takes five min to remove the ring and is worth it imo.


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That starts getting in to might as well use a free float with a proprietary barrel nut, assuming the taper pins aren't stuck.

Removing the fsb and barrel nut is A LOT more work.


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So do you need to remove the FSB pins and slide it forward to cut off the handguard cap? That's the procedure I've been able to find when looking around a little for "how to's", but there was one video that alluded to being able to snip it and pry it off without needing to move the FSB. It wasn't very clear though, and moving/removing the FSB is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place. As far as the Delta Ring and Spring, I can see that wouldn't be so difficult.

Yeah you can just use some snips and pliers to get it off without messing with the pins.


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The delta ring is easy to remove. Maybe takes a minute with a dremel tool, and unless you go straight bull in a china shop you won't mark or damage the upper. I have a Midwest FSP free float quad rail, and had to remove the delta ring only. It was super easy, but since the OP was looking for something more comfortable than a quad rail I had to recommend the Troy Delta. It was nice not having to remove the handguard cap too.

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Originally Posted by Mr McSimon

So do you need to remove the FSB pins and slide it forward to cut off the handguard cap? That's the procedure I've been able to find when looking around a little for "how to's", but there was one video that alluded to being able to snip it and pry it off without needing to move the FSB. It wasn't very clear though, and moving/removing the FSB is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place. As far as the Delta Ring and Spring, I can see that wouldn't be so difficult.

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It takes 5 minutes to get the muzzle device, FSB, and barrel nut off the gun. Seriously, don't let that drive your choice.

Probably a very good idea (likely mandatory) to remove the gas tube if cutting the cap off. I think replacing the gas tube roll pin with a Spirol pin is a good idea after following the recommendation from a few members here.

FWIW, I did not remove the gastube. I installed a C4 to replace Magpul handguards. Removing the handguard cap is a simple task with snips. You get to a point where you can more or less bend it off once the metal is fatigued a bit. The delta ring is a hair more involved. As long as you put something like an old towel around everything apart from where you are cutting to save from slips, take your time with a dremel and cut from both sides, it's not too bad. I put the upper in a vice looking down on the dust cover and cut from 3 and 9 o'clock. I marked the spots with pencil to make sure I didn't impact the barrel nut. Watch a few youtube vids and see how people do it. As for the C4 rail, best option for the standard barrel nut imo and is very solid.

Point taken, and my comment was totally tongue in cheek. :o

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Originally Posted by Locutus

Generally I would agree with you - I made the mistake of buying a UTG "A2 rear sight" several years ago. However, as long as the handguard doesn't rattle or pop out, then there's very little to go wrong. I won't be a snob about brands if the part does it's job well.

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Originally Posted by tehpwnag3

Point taken, and my comment was totally tongue in cheek. :o

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Which I understood. Heck, I think I even sneezed when I read your post. :rolleyes:



So, I ordered in a Daniel Defense Omega rail yesterday. After much consideration, and researching a bunch points of view from this thread, I decided although any of the choices would be good ones, I think the Omega will achieve the highest percentage of what I want overall. It seems that there are plenty of options for different rail covers that I'll be able to experiment with, so hopefully my aversion to a quad rail will end up being unjustified.

Part of my thinking is that one of the reasons I decided on a BCM upper barrel assembly was because of the known quality of the build, which I don't really want to mess with on this all purpose rifle. I like the idea of having all the original parts in place, including the cap and Delta Ring, and I like knowing they were all put in place by a true professional. It's been pointed out how easy some of these mods are, and I agree, but I see anything I do after the fact as a decrease in quality, even if I do the mod perfectly. However, thanks to some of the posts in this thread, I know more now then I did before, so I'll be brave about cutting and pounding and whatnot on my next upper build, which I can already see coming a mile away. Hell, I'm already thinking about the build after that. It seems that I'm hooked on this new addiction, which I'm sure most of you know all about. For now I'll be satisfied to say I "built" my lower myself.



For anybody who cares, here is my final list, in order of choice, and the major pros and cons that I saw with each option.

1) Daniel Defense Omega Rail
Pros - Lightweight, free floating, true "drop in" style, quality manufacturer, good reviews.
Cons - Quad rail.
Reconciliation - Multiple grip and rail cover options to mitigate quad rail.

2) Centurion C4 Cutout
Pros - Cutout for extra length, free floating, looks cool, uses existing barrel nut, quality manufacturer, great reviews.
Cons - Quad rail, price point, minor rifle modifications.
Reconciliation - Very close second choice. Main decision factors are that I don't want to change the basic setup of my upper assembly, and price point. If not for the Omega rail, this would be my choice.

3) Midwest Industries M-Lok Two Piece Drop In
Pros - True drop in style, round profile, lightweight, M-Lok & Keymod versions, quality manufacturer, good reviews, price point.
Cons - Not free floating.
Reconciliation - If I wasn't set on a free float rail this would be my choice. It's really what I was looking for in every respect minus the free float factor.

4) Troy Delta Rail
Pros - True drop in style, round profile, good reviews.
Cons - UGLY
Reconciliation - This is another example of the specs I was looking for, but I just don't like the look of this rail, especially the pictatinny under the FSB.

5) Midwest Industries Gen 2
Pros - Lightweight, free floating, uses existing barrel nut, quality manufacturer, good reviews.
Cons - Quad rail, minor rifle modifications.
Reconciliation - This looks like a nice rail, but it doesn't really provide any extra advantage over the other choices that I can see.

So there you have it. Thanks everybody for your input and help. I'll post again once the Omega shows up and I can make further comments about it. I'll also post a picture once the rifle is complete, hopefully in the next 3-6 weeks.

I watched a few install videos on the DD Omega and I am still at a loss on how it locks up to the barrel nut/delta ring. Anyone have any detail on this (or pics)?

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Originally Posted by tehpwnag3

I watched a few install videos on the DD Omega and I am still at a loss on how it locks up to the barrel nut/delta ring. Anyone have any detail on this (or pics)?

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Here you go: https://danieldefense.com/files/Web/DD-OMEGA_RAIL.pdf

Thanks. Looks like the rail cups around the barrel nut teeth and then the set screws push the rail against it to keep it from moving. I wonder what the flex is like on that setup.

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Originally Posted by 3 AE

Here you go: https://danieldefense.com/files/Web/DD-OMEGA_RAIL.pdf

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I just thought I'd post a quick update. I got the Omega Rail in last week and was pleasantly surprised by the size, shape, and feel in my hands. I had in my head that it was going to feel like holding a box, but even though I have small hands it's rather comfortable and feels more cylindrical than it looks. The rails themselves have been finished nicely and aren't sharp at all, so all in all even though I paid full price ($219 with free shipping) I'm pleased with the purchase and happier than I thought I'd be.