Bob Marshall Hike

In early July I will be hiking from the Benchmark Trailhead to the Chinese Wall in the Bob. This is a 50-ish mile, out and back 4 day hike. Now that I am out of the military I am having difficulty getting away from the ridiculous 100lb packing lists I used to have. While I have some bases covered, I am looking for advice on a few things:

1. Sleep System- Should I do a military summer bag in a compression sack or go buy one of those woobie sleeping bags?
2. Tent- I want a tent, not a hammock or tarp. What lightweight tents do you recommend? I've been looking at this one: https://www.amazon.com/Kelty-Salida-...rds=kelty+tent
3. Food. All I know is MRE's. I know there are better ways. I've found a few threads on this, but didn't know if someone had any real world experience on here.

Any other pertinent items I might overlook. I know this is pretty much the prime uncontrolled or managed grizzly bear country. I'll bring a gun and have spray. I don't want the thread to deteriorate into what kind of defense I need.

Thanks!

Just wanted to say Good Luck! with your hike. In my retirement I took up hiking to stay fit and do about 400 to 500 miles per year, mostly in our National Parks and Monuments, as well as some international parks. But I can't help you with your questions as I day hike only for 6 to 12 days at a time and stay in motels or lodges. I will be watching your thread.

Although I have not hiked in the "bobs" yet, (I may this summer) I do backpack every year hear in Montana, usually the Absorka/Beartooth Wilderness. At 45 Yrs. old thought my backpacking days were over as the Thermarest self inflating sleeping pad I used was not enough to allow me to sleep or get up in the morning without a lot of pain. My lovely wife heard me complain and researched and purchased for my birthday a Big Agnes Q Core SLX inflatable pad and that made all the difference. Now at 50yrs old I think that I sleep better out there than at home.

I use a 25 degree rated, down ultralight sleeping bag and have not been cold on mid to late summer trips.

I have an MSR bivy style, 1 person tent that MSR no longer makes that has worked well but is not designed for snow. It slowly collapses as the snow piles up but keeps me dry if I knock the snow off regularly.

Mountain House freeze dried meals are my go to for backpacking. Very tasty, easy to prepare, easy clean up, light to carry. A bit bulky but worth the volume.

I have yet to see a Griz on a pack trip. I've seen them from my vehicle, and would like to see one in the backcountry, but from a distance.

Enjoy your trip. I never feel more refreshed than after a trip like you describe.

DC

My wife and I have backpacked in Glacier and/or Absorka/Beartooth Wilderness each summer for the past 5 years or so, but haven't done the Bob yet. Last summer we did a version of the Northern Loop in Glacier, 70-something miles (wife's trip report is here, if you're interested: https://tntammy.com/trip-reports/justa-walk-round-mt-summer-17/ ). We're in our mid 50's.

1. As far as sleeping bags, we both use 2-lb, 20 degree down bags. We unzip them and use them as a quilt if the nights are warm. It seems like we had frost on the tent one morning last August and cold rain another night, and those warm bags were really nice. It has snowed on at some point on every summer trip we've had in Montana. If I had to pick the one item I like the best of any of my gear it would be that sleeping bag. If you're a warm/hot sleeper you could get by with that summer bag, but might have some less than comfortable nights.

We use Exped Synmat UL sleeping pads. They are thicker and we find them more comfortable than Thermarests. They are blow-up air matresses, but we've used them regularly in the desert with lots of thorns without significant problems with punchures.

2. Agree with you about the tent, we use a free-standing, 2-wall tent - a Big Agnes Copper Spur 2. That tent is a closest 2nd to my sleeping bag as my favorite piece of gear. I don't have any experience with the Kelty tent you linked, but Kelty generally makes good stuff.

3. Like DCsampson, we regularly eat Mountain House freeze dried meals. I like them way better than MRE's. There are other brands of freeze dried meals that are good too. Just try it before your trip to make sure you like it. We generally like the chicken based meals best (chicken breasts & mashed potatoes is a favorite), but are also very fond of beef stroganoff and mac & cheese. You can get the Mountain House meals in vacuum packs if space is at a premium.

We've seen grizzlies and black bears on a few of our trips (probably about half). Only once up close (about 20 yards). We both carry bear spray, but no guns. That's primarily because of weight, but also because I'm not a Montana resident and have never been able to get a definitive answer about if the Blackfeet recognize out of state carry permits (we always seem to wind up on the Blackfeet Reservation at some point during our trips).

You probably already know this, but if you are going to access trails from the Blackfeet Reservation they require a separate permit that you can get on-line here: https://blackfeet.nagfa.net/online/

One other gear recommendation: get a very good to excellent breathable, lightweight, hooded jacket if you don't already have one. It can be a life saver if/when the weather turns bad.

Don't know if there's an REI near you, but last time I checked they still rented nice gear for low prices.

Gossamer gear "The One" or they make a 2 person version now. The One is like 19 oz. It's been great so far but you have to treat it nice.

I really like my Enlightened Equipment Enigma quilt. I think my 30 degree is 17 oz.

I use a Thermarest Xlite. I find it to be the most comfortable pad I've used but I haven't tried many. It's about 16 oz.

I put it in a HMG Porter 3400. I think my pack plus sleep/shelter system is around 5.5 pounds.

My trail weight last fall for a 5 day trip in the wind rivers including a spinning rod and fair amount of tackle was about 33 pounds. That's still pretty heavy for the real ultralight guys.

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Originally Posted by mike_f

My wife and I have backpacked in Glacier and/or Absorka/Beartooth Wilderness each summer for the past 5 years or so, but haven't done the Bob yet. Last summer we did a version of the Northern Loop in Glacier, 70-something miles (wife's trip report is here, if you're interested: https://tntammy.com/trip-reports/justa-walk-round-mt-summer-17/ ). We're in our mid 50's.

1. As far as sleeping bags, we both use 2-lb, 20 degree down bags. We unzip them and use them as a quilt if the nights are warm. It seems like we had frost on the tent one morning last August and cold rain another night, and those warm bags were really nice. It has snowed on at some point on every summer trip we've had in Montana. If I had to pick the one item I like the best of any of my gear it would be that sleeping bag. If you're a warm/hot sleeper you could get by with that summer bag, but might have some less than comfortable nights.

We use Exped Synmat UL sleeping pads. They are thicker and we find them more comfortable than Thermarests. They are blow-up air matresses, but we've used them regularly in the desert with lots of thorns without significant problems with punchures.

2. Agree with you about the tent, we use a free-standing, 2-wall tent - a Big Agnes Copper Spur 2. That tent is a closest 2nd to my sleeping bag as my favorite piece of gear. I don't have any experience with the Kelty tent you linked, but Kelty generally makes good stuff.

3. Like DCsampson, we regularly eat Mountain House freeze dried meals. I like them way better than MRE's. There are other brands of freeze dried meals that are good too. Just try it before your trip to make sure you like it. We generally like the chicken based meals best (chicken breasts & mashed potatoes is a favorite), but are also very fond of beef stroganoff and mac & cheese. You can get the Mountain House meals in vacuum packs if space is at a premium.

We've seen grizzlies and black bears on a few of our trips (probably about half). Only once up close (about 20 yards). We both carry bear spray, but no guns. That's primarily because of weight, but also because I'm not a Montana resident and have never been able to get a definitive answer about if the Blackfeet recognize out of state carry permits (we always seem to wind up on the Blackfeet Reservation at some point during our trips).

You probably already know this, but if you are going to access trails from the Blackfeet Reservation they require a separate permit that you can get on-line here: https://blackfeet.nagfa.net/online/

One other gear recommendation: get a very good to excellent breathable, lightweight, hooded jacket if you don't already have one. It can be a life saver if/when the weather turns bad.

Don't know if there's an REI near you, but last time I checked they still rented nice gear for low prices.

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Thanks for the great info. I feel I should also say that I am 6'4" and 285lbs, so some gear might not fit me. Questions:

Is the jacket for rain only or warmth?

Do you both fit in that tent?

What kind of compression sack do you have for the sleeping bag?

How do you cook your mountain house meals?

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Originally Posted by CPM

Thanks for the great info. I feel I should also say that I am 6'4" and 285lbs, so some gear might not fit me. Questions:

Is the jacket for rain only or warmth?

Do you both fit in that tent?

What kind of compression sack do you have for the sleeping bag?

How do you cook your mountain house meals?

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You're welcome.

The jacket helps tremendously for warmth too if its cold and the wind is blowing (which is usually to some extent). With the breathability (relative term), pit zips, hood, etc., you can keep warm overall while getting rid of the right amount of body heat.

Yes, we both fit in the Copper Spur 2. It's tight, but has 2 doors & vestbules. Two doors are nice if you are going with someone else. We've spent a week or so straight in it several times without problems. 6'4" won't fit in it though. We have a 6'2" ish friend that bought a Copper Spur 3 that he fit in comfortably, but that's alot of tent if you're by yourself.

We use the Sea to Summit silnylon compression sacks, but they make other ones that weight slightly more and cost a whole lot less. We built up our gear over many years, so the cost has been spread out. I don't think we've had a Sea to Summit compression sack ever fail us.

Part of the beauty of the freeze dried food is all you have to do is add boiling water & stir. The only trash is the pouch which has a ziplock top. We typically use an MSR Pocket Rocket canister stove to boil water. There are a bunch of good little canister stoves out there though. The pocket rockets are pretty inexpensive which is one of they're main selling points. Weve used for over 10 years and even Boy Scouts didn't break them.

You probably already know, but there are important food/smellables handling/storage rules when in bear country. The freeze dried meals eliminate dirty dishes and minimize trash volume too.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Howdy

You big 3 , pack, tent, sleep system shouldn't be to much over 6 pounds.

I have had a 20 degree Feathered Friends bag for about 6 years now, its 2 pounds.

I switch between a tarp and ground cloth and a tent, depending on bugs

Just switched from a Golite Jam 70 to an Osprey back to actually carry a few pound more comfortably

Last year my ruck with water was about 38 pounds for a 5 day through hike in the N end of the Bob.

Thats being warm, dry fat, fat and happy from 20 to 100 degrees

That Andrew Skurka has a good book on the subject when back up with your own previous experinace.

I switch between Hawk Vittles and Mountain House chow

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Originally Posted by CPM

In early July I will be hiking from the Benchmark Trailhead to the Chinese Wall in the Bob. This is a 50-ish mile, out and back 4 day hike. Now that I am out of the military I am having difficulty getting away from the ridiculous 100lb packing lists I used to have.

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First, thanks for opening your endeavor up for discussion. Am tagging just to see how it goes & wish you luck. My ex-.MIL knees & back won't let me do that kind of thing, partly because of the thing you mentioned. Envy the ability to throw everything on the floor & work it out WITHOUT:

"Spare ammo - you're gone.
"Spare batteries for the other guys that's carrying too much ammo - you're gone.
"New high-speed/low-drag (not) trinket the Puzzle Palace sent - you're gone.
"Some mission-specific thing the Good Idea Faerie thought up in the middle of the night - you're gone."
Now you can pack what you actually need & still be more than comfortable.

I wish you all the best & hope to hear how it all goes.
Happy Trails!

Alright, I've purchased the tent and the ruck. I went with a Kelty Revol 65 and a Kelty Salida 2. I called Kelty for recommendations and guidance and they had Americans speaking english in America on the phone take a few minutes and make some recommendations. They even offered a 25% code for their website- without me asking for anything. Great company.

My last piece of the puzzle is the sleeping system. I am planning on taking just the green summer bag from my military sleeping system, but am looking for a compression sack to get it as small as possible. Any recommendations?

Sierratradingpost is your friend. My backpacking sleeping bag is a marmot 650 fill 20 degree down bag. My tent is an Easton rimrock 1p.

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Originally Posted by CPM

snip

My last piece of the puzzle is the sleeping system. I am planning on taking just the green summer bag from my military sleeping system, but am looking for a compression sack to get it as small as possible. Any recommendations?

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We've used the Sea to Summit Ultra Sil Compression Sacks on multiple trips a year for over 10 years and haven't been able to break them yet. They are also among the lightest compression sacks we've found. I don't have any recent experience with the mil sleep system, but I remember it being somewhat bulky compared to commercial bags. So I'd recommend getting a large size (20 liters) if you decide to go with one.

Sea to Summit

https://www.rei.com/media/3737f19a-6...c?size=784x588

For my summer ruck at work, I keep the green bag in an OR Airpurge Compression Sack. In the winter I swap out to a Marmot down 0 degree bag.
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Tortuga, how small does it get?

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Originally Posted by CPM

Tortuga, how small does it get?

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OR makes them in two sizes, 15L and 35L. Mine is the now discontinued 25L.

It's not so much how small the bag gets as how much will your bag compress. My 25L will get micro sized with a down 20 degree bag.

So how did it go?

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Originally Posted by Badger52

So how did it go?

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Maybe he forgot his bear spray?

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Originally Posted by Badger52

So how did it go?

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Curious as well. I would live to hike the chinese wall in the next couple years.

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Originally Posted by Esq.

Maybe he forgot his bear spray?

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It is only because I know he is alive and well that I laugh...that is hilarious.

Damnit. I am alive and well and I learned so much that the idea of writing it all down is daunting.

We ended up covering 48 miles in 3.5 days. I severely rolled my ankle 15 miles in and was pretty miserable for the remaining time. I was unable to ascend the final 2500 feet to see the wall as the descents were perilous on my bum ankle.

I learned a ton, and it is a disservice that I have not passed it on to anyone else, especially to those who offered so much advice to me- I apologize. I will do a thorough write up in the next week.

Yikes! Good luck with that ankle, I hope you did not suffer any lingering damage. Post some pics when you get a chance.

Likewise hope you have been mending & look forward to a candid report of things you learned.

I'm glad to hear you are ok. Did you have trouble getting out?
I always recommend stout boots for that area.
I hope you come back and try again.

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Originally Posted by Serlo II

I'm glad to hear you are ok. Did you have trouble getting out?
I always recommend stout boots for that area.
I hope you come back and try again.

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I keep telling myself that I am going to start a multi-post write up. I'm 5 weeks post ankle reconstruction surgery and just started walking in a boot. It's been very difficult mentally, but the pain has been a 0 or 1 since three days post op.

I did not have trouble getting out, in the fact that I walked an additional 30+ miles after my injury. This is not a testament to my toughness, but my stupidity. The last 10 miles or so I was truly trudging along, shuffling if you will.

I was wearing above the ankle Keen's, but will be using a higher boot in the future. This was a traditionally unstable ankle, so I had packed a brace in my ruck, but was not wearing it at the time. #genius.

I was set to come back this summer with my wife and was hoping to summit Haystack Mountain, but I don't think my surgeon is going to clear me. They say full recovery takes 1-2 years. Surgery was 3/12/19.

I typically wear mountaineering boots but forest service fire guys have to wear specially rated higher boots. Maybe 8" minimum and very heavy duty. They typially destroy a pair in one season.
Sorry to hear your ankle is so Fu#*ed. I've had a lot of injuries over the years and I get the chills when I hear this stuff.

Day One(July4):

My partner, who is an Active Duty 11C and had just completed SFAS(30 day non-select, passed all land nav, extended scale PT stud, no negative peer evals) flew to Great Falls from Nashville while I flew in from DFW. I flew United and paid for first class to get the free checked bags as I was packing pistols for both of us and a few knives. Miraculously, both my DFW-DEN and DEN-GTF flights were on time, as were my partner's. We got our rental car and headed to Augusta for our last stop before driving to the Benchmark trailhead.

I had a gut feeling before leaving Great Falls that I should pull over and inspect all of my sensitive items and make sure all of the gear was accounted for- there isn't a Wal-Mart in Augusta. I pulled into the nearest gas station and opened my trunk and was pleasantly surprised to see everything had arrived in one piece. While I was back there, I also examined my water bladder, and started putting my leatherman on my belt and knife in my pocket. I asked my companion, "Hey- where is your knife?" His response was, "I don't have one." I asked him if he really showed up to the big W wilderness without any means of cutting anything and he said, "I wasn't planning on stabbing a bear." This was the first inkling I had that something was amiss. I then inquired about his water source. He replied that he was just going to "Stop and get a jug and carry it." I re-queried if he really intended to hand carry a 8 lb water jug, a single source of water, for 5 days. He said, "Yeah dude, I just got done with Selection, I know what I'm doing. I immediately drove us to the nearest Wally World for him to buy a knock off camelback bladder. I was already supplying him with a pistol and I always work the one is none rule, so he got a pocket knife from me as well.

The drive to the trail head was uneventful and we stopped at the Western Bar in downtown Augusta for one last meal around 1700. I had a unbelievably good grilled chicken sandwich. If you're ever in the area, it's worth a stop. We hit the trail around 1930 and started off. The initial hike was easy and beautiful. We ended up moving 5.5 miles that first evening before we agreed to settle in for the night before it got dark. I was completely unaware that it doesn't get dark until 2230-2300 each night and the sun rises around 0500.

Another unique challenge we had was that while I packed a tent, he decided to use a hammock/tarp combo. This particular area of the Bob had been ravaged by wildfires, and since the hammock required live trees, we were limited in our camping locations. We ended up just blazing a trail up a hillside after crossing the West Fork of the Sun River to a small collection of trees. I don't remember what I cooked, but I fired up my micro stove for something and celebrated my birthday(yes, July 4) with a protein cookie my wife packed. I even took a picture to show her how lovely it was. The night was relatively uneventful, except for the temperature. It got down to 42 degrees in my tent according to my Casio Rangeman(not the most accurate, but I didn't pack a separate thermometer). I was using the summer weight bag from the military sleeping system. It was one of the coldest nights I have ever experienced since I was in the Army, and I was stationed at Ft. Riley, KS. I remember rolling the zipper to face the ground and trap the heat to try and stay warm. I suppose my body being conditioned to Texas in July, I was in real shock. I probably slept around an hour total. Maybe. This came in to play the next day, which will be my next post.

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How did you like that Snow Peak titanium cook gear?

That kinda boggles my mind about your friend's gear choices. Not talking smack about him at all, but it sure is a head-scratcher. A decent fixed blade knife would be the very last thing you could take from me before entering the wild. With a knife, I can get or make everything else.

Looking forward to the rest of the writeup.

Day Two(July 5th):

Well, as stated before, the first night in the Bob was a real eye opener. It got down to 42 degrees and neither one of us slept for more than an hour. The sun also rose around 0530, so there wasn't much darkness. We awoke and had a small breakfast of some cliff bars, packed up, and started hiking. Our plan was to hike 5.7 miles to the Indian Point Cabin, have lunch there, then continue to Haystack Mountain. The hike to the cabin was relatively uneventful. The trail conditions at times were pretty crappy. A lot of folks and outfitters take horses and llamas on this route, and they really screw up the trail, leaving lots of mud and places for water to collect. The other odd part about this trail, and almost all of the trails I hiked on, was the presence of fist-sized rocks scattered intermittently right in the middle of the trail. I have no idea where they came from or why they were there, but they made our lives a living nightmare. Ironically, this was not the cause of my rolled ankle.

It wasn't until we got to the cabin that I realized my first mistake. I had neglected to do an accurate map reconnaissance. Well, that was a half truth- I had neglected to take note of the contour lines of the map. I just wasn't paying attention to detail, and somehow neglected to notice that my planned route for the day took us up and over the Continental Divide three times. This would not be possible. I didn't realize that until I was eating lunch at the cabin. Through a cool twist of fate, my partner happened to take a photo of me right as I was realizing this. I didn't see this photo until after the whole trip. It is my favorite picture of the whole hike because it is the exact moment I realized how stupid I am.
Attachment 57125

The plan was to continue on trail 203 for another mile, ford the sun river, and continue on 211 for 4 miles up the side of Red Butte to the White River Pass(the Continental Divide). At that point, we would have two choices:

1. We could do a mild boulder on the divide itself to Haystack Mountain for 1.5 miles. or
2. Add 7.5 miles of actual trail through the White River Pass and end up descending and re-climbing around 2500'.

We decided to stay on trail and take the long route. We began the second movement around noon. No one had told us that you want to make the most strenuous movement of the day very early in the day to minimize the temperatures. It was around 85 degrees, which after a 42 degree night felt like 120. We approached the Sun River and chose to remove our boots and tie them around our neck for the fording. What no one realized was how incredibly cold, fast, and slick-bottomed the river would be. Within 10 seconds of entering the water your legs are burning from the cold. As I begin to walk the bottom felt like glass with hot butter poured on it. It was the slickest thing I've ever felt(That's what she said). I remember making fun of my partner before entering myself and him looking at me furiously as he tried not to fall. When it was my turn to enter I got about halfway across before I decided to take my boots off my shoulders and throw them to the other side. I was so convinced that I was going to fall and soak everything, I wanted to have dry feet when I got out.

I didn't fall and we made it across, geared up, and started up the southern side of Red Butte. The first half mile was actually a little scary. It become apparent almost immediately that you are probably one of very few people that are on that side of the river. It's very dense forest for the first bit and very quiet. Whenever I'm hiking in NW Montana the idea of becoming the next Todd Orr is always in the back of my mind. The first half to three quarters of a mile is nothing but switchbacks in the woods, then you break out. Once you break out there is little to no cover. It's like being on Mars as you ascend- red, dusty, and hot.

We made it about 3.5 miles before we started thinking about our capabilities. The sun was killing us. We were around 7k, which for a person that lives at 700 is brutal. The packs were getting damn heavy(40-50lbs), and there was no place to stop and get out of the sun. Eventually we got to the point where we could see White River Pass and noticed that there seemed to be about 3 feet of snow for a half mile on the pass. You could barely make out the trail with the snow. We both decided that we could not safely make that movement. We were pretty exhausted, it was hot as heck, and we were unprepared for any movements involving snow. When we considered continuing on and over the pass we thought about having to spend the night up there, and given our unpreparedness for 42 degrees at a much lower altitude, decided it would not be safe up by the divide. It was a very tough decision, but we chose to turn around and head back to find a camping spot by the cabin and reconvene.

Yet another example of my stupidity is my ankle, and this is when it really came into play. My right ankle has been unstable for as long as I can remember. I constantly roll it. Ironically, in all of my time in a Scout/Sniper platoon, I never remember rolling in while I was in the service. I've had a couple of major sprains, including one on a hike in Colorado that made my eyes water. OK, I was pretty much crying. As we descended the slope was going from right to left, and as you can imagine, we made it about 200 yards before my ankle gave out. I didn't fall to the right, thank God, but it hurt a good bit. I actually had an ankle brace with me- in my ruck- not on my foot. I have yet to figure out that thought process. I sat down, put it on, and continued down the mountain. It wasn't the worst roll I've ever had, but it was a close second. It was too the point that my mind was spending 50% of the time thinking about it, which is no fun.

We continued down the mountain, re-crossed the Sun River, and found a camp site about 1.4 miles in the direction we had came. This was fortuitous as it was already occupied by a grandson(in his late 20's) and his grandfather. His grandfather lives in Montana and they were using 4 horses to travel the trail and fish. These two welcomed us into this large camp site and let us set up shop. I spent the rest of the evening going down to the river to soak my ankle in the freezing waters.

The grandson was actually a very experienced woodsman and taught us both quite a bit about gear, hiking, etc... as we sat around a campfire. He remains a friend to this day. This campsite was right on the edge of the river, and I slept a little better as there was a lot of ambient noise and I was exhausted and on no sleep.

Miles traveled on Day 2: 14.5
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Good write up, thanks for sharing.