Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostly
Concur.
I have seen A/M/GM guys with open guns ND into the ground in front of targets or put round some between targets on splits due to early DC on more than one occasion.
Each time they were given a miss instead of a DQ.
Reality is they ND with the light trigger.
Those are range/game guns
Some geniuses put super light game triggers like that on their carry guns.
With their likely hood of doing so being inversely related to their skill and training level.
I took it to mean that as a result of the longer DA pull in the instances referenced the officer was able to determine the subject didn't need to be shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
OP, what's your primary pistol?
1) To me, for training and court purposes, if your finger is inside the trigger guard it is the same as having your finger on the trigger. Finger off trigger means finger outside trigger guard. I've heard some trainers argue back and forth about whether having your finger inside the trigger guard is the same as having your finger on the trigger. When asked "would you want to have someone testify in court they observed you had your finger inside the trigger guard when not legally justified in applying deadly force?" the response was a unanimous "Hell No!" With unloaded pistols we experimented with sympathetic muscle reflex while grabbing and dragging a weighted duffle bag. We also experimented with maneuvering quickly over and around obstacles without dragging the duffle bag. There were several negligent trigger presses, that would have been negligent discharges, in a real scenario with a loaded firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Inf
This is as site from a case where a LEO was covering a suspect with a revolver and his finger on the trigger. It's Medina vs City of Chicago. https://www.leagle.com/decision/1992...2d49011023.xml After this case was adjudicated many police trainers in the Midwest referred to it when stressing keeping the finger off the trigger while covering a suspect and until the decision to discharge the firearm was made.
2) If I decided to carry a firearm with reduced trigger weight for defensive purposes, I would want to be prepared to justify that decision through documentation including training records well in advance of carrying the firearm. Training records that documented I was more accurate under stress, without incident of negligent discharge, would be one item I would want to have readily available.
The comparison of IPSC and USPSA competitors is not realistic. Most are generally experienced shooters with a lot of trigger time competing in a controlled environment and no one is trying to kill them.
This is about the same trigger weight as I like my Glocks, and also is one of the reasons why I don't like carrying them. When talking about trigger weight as a safety measure as it relates to AD/ND, the discussion should consider pressure weight that can trigger a shot when applied anywhere on a trigger face. If we can accept that a person might make a mistake of ND, we should accept that the mistake might involve applying a pressure / allowing a contact to any part of a trigger, not just the middle of it. For Glocks, 4.5 lbs break at a point of natural finger placement means 4 lbs or less break if trigger is engaged at its tip. So it is not really a 4.5-5 lbs trigger from safety standpoint and this does get to me, so I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggy
Trigger weight will not prevent a Negligent Discharge. The people who will go after you in court after a defensive encounter might be able to convince a jury that trigger weight was a contributing factor to a negligent discharge. Whether or not trigger weight would hurt you in court will depend on where you live, the demographics of the jury pool and how the presiding judge rules on objections to whether or not trigger weight is admissible.
From a practical standpoint my personal preference for trigger weight on a defensive pistol is 4.5 - 5.5 lbs. Personally, I haven't experienced an advantage with a lighter trigger weight.
Here is a quote from that thread that really caught my attention. "Mas Ayoob talks about some of this when he noted coppers are not in the gunfighting business, although we do have to gunfight at times, but in the threat management business. Two different animals completely."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayrevolver
Trigger weight, without a dispute, is a factor that mitigates risks of some NDs. If it weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion, various SME wouldn't be opining what constitutes a reasonable minimal duty trigger weight, and manufacturers wouldn't set factory pull weights at some arbitrary level. Even the best trained people do things with their guns that shouldn't be done, you just have to spend time around different folks and observe them. Sometimes, even 25 lbs trigger won't matter and sometimes keeping it at a healthy 5+ lbs vs gamey 4- lbs can make a difference.
Glock 19 at the moment. I have no idea what my pull weight is right now but for the first several years of owning it, there was a 3.5# connector in it. I really didn't feel like it was dangerously light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlander Systems
I'm sure the sample size of this is small, but has anyone ever heard of someone saying that they realized they were unintentionally pulling the trigger and stopped it before it became an actual ND? Who is to say that those competition shooters wouldn't have ND'd with a five pound trigger too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wake27
I know somebody who was RSO'ing a match when he saw the hammer drawing back on a DA hammer fired pistol as it was being holstered, grabbed the guys arm and told him to stop (was standing right on top of him), no discharge resulted. But that's hearsay as I wasn't there, and is a pretty narrow set of circumstances.