Brother just send me these two links and I think they are both useful as we all have sugar and probably honey in our house.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5693114_trea...nds-sugar.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_5689579_use-...at-wounds.html
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Brother just send me these two links and I think they are both useful as we all have sugar and probably honey in our house.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5693114_trea...nds-sugar.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_5689579_use-...at-wounds.html
I've heard of both, but never tried either.
However, from experience, I'd avoid granular objects - sugar, pepper, etc. It can be a real PITA to get off the wound once you're at the hospital. No, it doens't just rinse off - you get it in the congealed blood, which then has to be removed to see the wound. And then they have to get out all the pieces of stuff that you shoved onto the wound. Typically before the lidocaine goes in.
No real-life experiences on the treating end with honey.
I think the application is for remote, field expedient use, and not as a default protocol. Thus, is honey (with its history of use) any better than doing nothing other than irrigation?
Here ya go...here's another similarly scholarly review of something you should keep in mind for, you know, when the SHTF and it's EOTWAWKI, and your bunker mate has a gallbladder attack.
http://www.gallbladderattack.com/coffeeenema.shtml
Good lord :rolleyes:
Sugar will help to coagulate.. You must control bleeding to survive.. Just saying.. Ron
Yes, I've heard the same.
Regarding the fear of giving sugar to bacteria, I am not sure. There is one school of thought that goes: excess sugar is used to preserve fruit, because in high concentrations, sugar makes for a hostile environment for bacteria...
I'd like to see any scientific evidence...
Thanks for sharing
Yea I am not saying its a definite no go, just not 100% sold on the idea. The anti-coagulate properties would be a bonus, though I have never seen it put to the test. I will do some research myself. Maybe I will be surprised. I am always open for new ideas/treatments. Found a recent journal article on the issue.
http://journals.lww.com/aswcjournal/...Update.11.aspx
Coming from my experience working in the microbiology field, and my training as a first responder, I would suggest going and getting the proper equipment if you want to be prepared. Novelty is great, but when the established options are better...use them.
As far as increasing bacterial growth? I wouldn't be too concerned with that. Honey has anti-bacterial properties, and an overload of sugar does, too. Again though, this is not something that I would think of as a "primary" tool to treat anything.
Personally, I typically avoid eHow, as it seems to be full of morons offering unsound advice. Articles like that convince people not to buy things they should have on hand in favor of something that would have been ideal in the Dark Ages.
I have personally used both sugar and used honey, in wounds ranging from a simple cut finger to knee/elbow scrapes to moderate gashes. Both have worked for me, but honey worked a bit better. The advantage of sugar is that it stays in place better than honey.
My preferred method is extensive irrigation and proper bandaging, though, until I can get somewhere where someone better trained than I can have a proper look at it.
Interesting topic.
Silly, IMHO.
Interesting. Seems like a stretch though.
We've used Menuka Honey - expensive but works well as nature super anti-microbial. Extra tacky and packs well.
I'm just a lowly EMT-B, but here's my opinion:
Sterility should be your main concern in a field injury. Infection is serious shit and needs to be foremost in your mind. Apart from arterial bleeding, you'll have more than enough time to apply indirect/direct pressure and properly apply a pressure dressing. If you're willing to improvise and use honey/sugar on a cut, then you should be more than willing to hold pressure while tearing a sleeve off of your shirt.
With arterial bleeding, if you're isolated and/or lost, then it's just your time to die. Unless you can make a field expedient TQ and apply it quickly, you're ****ed. (hence why I carry a CAT in my cargo pocket when hiking)
Just my .02, but I really think there are far better methods to control bleeding than this. Carry a small med kit with you with cravats and gauze and you'll be more than capable of treating all but the most severe hemmorhage.
It would be inconceivable to me that any competent EMS Medical Director would sign off on protocols that allowed EMTs to use honey or pancake syrup or any other breakfast table condiment on acute traumatic wounds. Likewise any competent ER physician or surgeon.
Honey is something I would definitely use as a field expedient antiseptic for minor wounds. I would never consider sugar as it might just as easily provide a growth medium for bacteria.
Using it for battlefield trauma???
Only if there isn't anything better around.
my bros German shepherdad a tumor removed on her leg. They stitched wound close but wound opened back up exposing bones and tendons.
due to amount of tissue removed and there wasn't enough skin to stitch it back together.
what is interesting is the vet is applying some sort of sugar dressing on the wound once a day. In the last 2 weeks it has made good progress healing.
I remember reading that they used honey to treat burns in World War One since honey won't support fungal or bacterial growth.
RFA
Bearing in mind that even rudimentary wound physiology was a complete mystery then and that antibiotics were completely unheard of until 1928.
The use of honey as a field expedient in the treatment of acute wounds is stupid. No other way to say it. It is currently used occasionally in chronic wounds. I think that's basically pretty stupid too, but it is at least somewhat more rational than battlefield medics carrying a squeeze bottle of honey with them.
I've also seen Copenhagen used to do the same.
In a SHTF type of environment where you are not near an ER, this may be a legitimate treatment. Sugar packing can actually be useful in treating local infections when other methods fail. It does not help in controlling bleeding.
In this situation the wound would be packed with sugar and eventually it would for a paste. This would have to be irrigated multiple times a day, meaning completely washed out, then repacked.
I probably would try it as a last resort, but it is legitimate and isn't a "home remedy" that is complete BS like most are.
Then why is there a long history of using honey in warfare? The Romans didn't have quickclot gauze, nor did the Napoleonic forces, yet they used Honey and sugar. It worked and they continued to use it.
Just because they didn't understand wound physiology doesn't mean they knew what worked and what didn't. I have used super glue to treat wounds and I am sure there are lots of people who will call me stupid, yet it worked for me very well.
Anyone have any idea what the mortality rate was among those treated?
One number I've seen published is 45-65% mortality for battle wounds rate in a hospital setting during the 1700's. Just because they did something doesn't mean it was very effective.
Just some food for thought.
Honey has been used for centuries, that is true but I've never seen anything in the texts to indicate that it was used for significant hemorrhage. Likewise there is little documented modern evidence that it can effectively stop major arterial bleeding. I think honey works well on clotting minor bleeding and preventing sepsis/infection on wounds that. Using it to stop a major arterial bleed? I'll have to see some documentation before I think that's a proper substitute for direct pressure, tourniquet or other. If I had nothing else I might give it a try if it was handy, but I wouldn't waste time looking for it.
Actually one effective clotting agent I've heard being used was spider webs.
Folks, this stuff (honey & sugar) isn't meant to clot...it's meant to help treat local infections.
99% of wounds you can stop the bleeding with nothing but direct pressure. Even major arterial bleeding can be stopped with direct pressure. If not, you can use QuickClot and direct pressure. If not you can tourniquet.
Honey and sugar is not going to help stop major bleeding. Humans have a tendency to have a need to "put something on it" instead of doing the basics. Soap and water to clean out wounds, direct pressure and the rest of the bleeding control cascade to stop the bleeding.
What is interesting as it is said Honey has anti infection{antibacterial} properties so why is it recommended not to feed honey to babies because of the chance of the baby getting botulism[?] or something poisioning.
You are exactly right. If honey is being used for treatment of a local infection you should "boil" it first. This is according to the physician who I asked about this stuff. I do NOT know the actual method of treating with honey, only sugar. Though I never think I will use this, I would rather go with sugar than honey. That's just me.
Anyone who has spent any length of time in a combat zone knows, you use what has proven to work. This treatment became widespread in Napoleonic times for good reason I suspect, just like certain plants were harvested for their wound packing abilities.
We all know that sugar/honey is not a primary form of treatment, but if that is all one has, the knowledge may save a life in austere conditions when primary care is days away.
I was fortunate to have primary care only a helo ride away in my real life adventures, but knew in the back of my mind what to do once the med kit ran dry.
To ignore this body of knowledge is ignorant in my opinion. To use it without experience and wisdom is stupid.
A-thank you. Why bother packing honey in the off chance that it may be useful when they have products like quick clot out? If I'm dealing with acute bleeding the possibility of infection is waaaay in the back of my mind. Try to keep it clean but priorities...
While with the MFO, I saw a Columbian soldier who had a burst appendix and the wound care that they used was based upon sugar. The wound healed beautifully.
This is not a recommendation to use sugar, only the one time that I saw it used.