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Hey guys
I was wondering if anyone here has gone through the Duracoat class. My unit's home station is about 45 minutes away from Lauer's and on my way home so...
how many days are the classes? Are they worth the time/money? Any info would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
What ever you do, do not buy their instructional DVD; absolutely worthless.
What's your plans? I have been spraying it for a long time, And did not take the class. I did a lot of guns for a rep comp. lots of green and tan. Just be sure to bake it and let it set for 24 hours , And you should be good to go.
As I understand as long as you can use an rattle can nicely you can duracoat just fine as well. The only 'sticky' part is doing a proper prep.(as i understand)
Well the plan would be to offer it as another "product" at the store where I work. We have an excellent gunsmith, but the only finish work I've seen him do is blueing. So it would just be another option.
I've used Duracoat on my 870 and a Glock already. I love the product. I'm just curious if its worth going to the class to get a certification or not. I emailed the company and they said its a one day course so it would be pretty handy that way.
School of Hard Knocks
NIC Industries AKA: Cerra Coat also offers a class which I inquired about this past winter since it's right down the street. The class mainly concentrates on the prep and mechanics of application to prevent 'process' failures. Since I do protective coatings for a living I just need to downsize my equipment alittle.
I went with the Cerra Coat H series (Forced Cure 250-300 deg 2 hrs to 45 min respectively) over Duracoat because of the faster cure and better durability on my AK and G3 builds. They also offer an ambient cure C series (5 day) that can take 1200 degree heat cycles and a couple that can take 1600 or better. According to the rep, the ambient cure can be forced alittle but I don't have my notes handy.
They will teach you the application instructions step by step, equipment selection/set up for optimal performance, cleaning, abraisive blasting, QC guidelines, mixing/thinning procedures, the use/maintenance of spray gun airbrushes, and curing. They probably will give you some guidance as to stencils ect but I have seen no real books on the nuts and bolts of the application processes and techniques of camo besides an old Army FM.
You didn't specify if you were planning on offerring it as camo, I just assume.
The art of camo is a learned/hands on task that would take a week or more to teach with multipule P.E's. I think there is a guy on TOS that does alot of duracoating in his home shop and has posted quite abit about it. For technique, I would search gun boards and look at folks finished work and talk to them about how they did it.
Since you have to blast the surface as part of the surface prep you could also parkerize prior to coating. Parking isn't hard and would offer 'another' product and added surface protection.
As far as 'Offering it as a product', I would keep to the basics at first, i.e. slide one color and the frame another. That is where I'm at and will most likely stay with the cerra coat. To be competitive in the camoflauge market you'll have to meet or beat the camo competition. I would practice technique on old stocks ect and if they turned out good could be kept for ref/display.
Excellent advice. Thank you!
I still have to talk it over with the boss and our smith, but I think it would be a good idea to have something like this available to our customers.
I sprayed countless # of guns for CMMG when I worked for them. The trick is in the prep. Good luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remember911
Good point. My buddy flew up to WI for the Duracoat class by Lauer a few years ago. He does it now as a "paying hobby"! ;)
He stressed the importance of prep for a successful application. I've had a number of guns done by him and Duracoat---if properly applied---looks great. It can also be fingerf****d and no worries about corrosion. Hell, take it out in a rainstorm. Will it scratch? Yep, but so will *most* finishes.
I used the search button and ran across this thread.
What is the best way to PREP a lower/receiver extension for a home Duracoat Job?
What type of scuff should I do to the parts? Scotch brite and dry it with accetone or something? Trying to do a decent job the first time.
Also, on baking the finish on, do you let it tack up or dry a bit on its own then bake it, or bake it extremely wet? Also, I have heard a bunch of info on different temps and cure times.
Any extra info would be awesome!
Thanks in advance
Shane
I've been playing with Duracoat for a while now and found that surface prep is the most important step in the process. Duracoat loves to stick to parkerized and oxide finishes. I've been doing a light sanding with 600 grit sandpaper followed by a thorough wipe down with acetone or MEK. I use compressed air to completely dry the part. If you are refinishing a pre-painted, chromed or previously coated part I recommend media blasting rather than sanding to get a good surface to stick to. After the cleaning process it's important not to touch the part with your bare hands as this can transfer skin oils back onto the part. Unless you are using Durabake, Duracoat is air dry so no oven is required. I've had very good luck with Duracoat and Duraheat, both are air dry products. Have fun!!
Marty
Thanks for the tips! So I am looking at doing my spikes stripped lower, my Vltor Receiver Extension, ASAP Plate, Castle nut and a BAD lever...
Since these parts have a factory finish on them, do you suggest blasting them, or a light sand/scuff job on them would be okay?
Thanks again
Shane
You should be good to go with just a light sanding. Be sure to clean the parts off very well afterwards and use rubber gloves when handling the parts after cleaning them.
Will do, thanks again for your tips and suggestions! I have painted tons of parts before, just not gun parts. lol
They are basically the same except that the assembled gun parts end up as a much more satisfying product. Have fun with the coating!
Marty
One last questions, would you wet sand the parts or do it dry? Thanks
I always dry sand followed by a thorough cleaning with acetone or MEK. No need for wet sanding. It just makes it harder to see what has already been sanded and also gets liquid into places that make it more difficult to dry the part.
Gotcha, I'm going to start sanding and preping my parts tonight. I have to get a few more parts before I acutally do the duracoating. Still need a BAD Lever, and the LPK so I can duracoat the saftey selector....
I'm not sure what color(s) you plan to use but you might consider leaving the selector switch, trigger, bolt release paddle, pins and BAD lever black. The contrast (at least on a tan upper and lower) looks really nice.
I have thought that as well, but was concderned it wouldn't look right. I might take your advise on that one.
Would you duracoat the ASAP plate and castle nut though? I'm using Daniel Defense Flat Dark so it will contrast with all the Magpul FDE furniture i'm going to use....
That's a personal taste decision. I've done those particular parts both ways and liked them either way. I'll see if I can find some photos for you. PM me your email and I'll see what I can do so you'll have something to compare.
Marty
I'm no expert, and I will say I haven't ever spoke here much, but I've done alot of complex camos and such with duracoat and an art background makes me aesthetically OCD. I usually don't have much to offer to the "tactical" conversations, but I might be able to join in here a little. I totally agree with "Marty" about the contrasting controls and pins. Some people tan everything, and in my very small opinion it is too much of a tan mass for me (hope I'm not offending anyone). My eyes like to see a black barrel sometimes (usually duraheat HK black) on a tan gun, black or dark pins, and I like the contrast of the castle nut and plate being black. Plus the ASAP has a degree of movement for operation and will wear the finish much faster. My opinion would be leave it black. I'm not a fan of painted buffer tubes either. Also, keep in mind that if you are trying to PERFECTLY match aftermarket parts colors, then I would order some Duracoat flattening agent or some matte clear. Most of their colors are too glossy for my personal taste. I did an SPR rifle and matched the upper and lower receiver to the DD FDE Lite rail with the Lauer color. I wasn't very happy with the match so I used some primary colors to "doctor" the tone and flattening agent until the sheen matched. This is probably a stupid practice to guys who paint for serious function and concealment, but it gives me something to do. Here is that rifle in some different configurations to get you excited for DD FDE. Again, just my thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'Zeus
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...8/DSC00795.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...8/DSC00898.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...8/DSC00994.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...8/DSC00995.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...8/DSC01064.jpg
Thanks for sharing your rifle pics! I love the contrast in color. Enought to keep if FDE, but the variations of color in the accessories compared to the DD FDE looks good.
I'm going to buy my upper complete from BCM so I was planning on leaving the upper receiver black....
Looks sweet. Its darker than I thought, but that is sweet!
What made you decide for the DD FDE color? It is fairly dark. It is more of a greyish brown actually. Flat dirt earth would be a good description cause it blends with the soil here in PA. The DD rail has a coppery sheen to it from the anodizing, which looks nice up close. Are you using a DD FDE colored rail? Does the BCM upper have the flash hider pinned?
I like the Trijicon FDE Duracoat color as a nice intermediate color between the Magpul FDE and the DD FDE.
The BCM SBR upper I want has the 10" DD Lite rail in DD FDE. I figured this would be the best color to use on the lower due to that decision I have made on the upper. I like the fact that it is a bit darker than the Magpul FDE color.
It looks similar to the Spikes Brown Recluse they built a while back. I'm diggin it. I think I may do the Duracoating tomorrow now since I'm off. I'll just leave the castle nut black and see how it looks.
To keep the shine toned down, what mixture did you use on the hardner? I want a more flat color look....I don't need any extra glare!
I typically use a 12-1 ratio of colorant to hardner. You can go down to 10-1 for less shine. Less hardner provides a flatter finish. Don't go any less than 10-1 or you may compromise the durability.
Marty,
Thanks on the advise! Is the 12:1 pretty glossy, or is is flat like I would prefer?
At 12-1 all of mine have turned out with the same texture as the rifle pictured above in FDE. You might want to experiment with the ratio in the event that this is still not flat enough for you. Just stay above 10-1 and you'll be fine. The texture flattens out a bit at full cure so don't let the initial shine at application bother you. Give the part 24 hours of cure time before changing your mixture to ensure that you are seeing the actual final texture.
Marty,
As always, thanks a million with your help thus far in my project! I'll get some pics through the process to let you see how I'm doing on it all!
Thanks
shane
That would be great. Take your time and have fun with this!
Is there a better type of air brush to use for this application? I didn't know if any air brush would work, if there are better/worse brands.
thanks again
shane
I use a Testors Aztec because it's very easy to use and clean. This brand has a great selection of tips for various spray patterns and media:
http://www.testors.com/category/136950/Aztek
Any of these will work as well:
http://www.airbrushcity.com/abk1/index.htm
Badger and Paasche make very dependable units:
http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Airbrushes.asp
http://www.paascheairbrush.com/Products-Airbrushes.html
Basically, any good airbrush works. It's best to have a water trap on your compressor so you don't get shmutz mixed in with the coating.
I use a paasche VLS double action set. $50-70 on ebay. Never used anything else, but I have no regrets about this airbrush. It comes with three tip/needle sizes (the two biggest are the ones I use). I bought a ton of small plastic containers with plastic/nylon (??) lids on ebay. I got about 30 of them for next to nothing. I found some plastic drinking straws at a local grocery store that were 200 for $2 that fit the little containers perfect. I hated the huge ritual of cleaning everything like the containers, straws, and air brush on top of it, so now I throw the straws each time and rinse the containers and when they get bad enough I chuck them too. +1 on the water trap. I won't spray without it. It gets humid here different times of the year, and moisture in the line causes all kinds of problems with getting a nice even mist from the airbrush. Another thing is that duracoat flashes off and get tacky pretty quick. If you let your airbrush sit around for awhile with paint in the nozzle and come back later, the tip can get gummed up. What will happen sometimes is you will get a touch of pressure and then the clot lets loose and you get a glob and heavy marking on your piece. ALWAYS test spray before you start if you walked away for awhile or in between pieces. You can fix mistakes. If something happens like that, I usually just let it go for a day or two, lightly sand out the stuck junk, and recoat.
Marty, I was always hesitant to reduce the hardner. Didn't know if that would compromise the strength. What is your experience with that? The shine of Duracoat has always been my big gripe.
Paasche makes great airbrushes. My original Paasche is still kicking after a lot of use. I am basically lazy so the process of cleaning it had me looking for options. The Aztec is a simple unscrewing of the tip, soak it in cleaner and air dry. It takes a 1/4 of the time to clean.
Not enough hardner will leave the coating too thin and not hard enough (no surprise eh!) to withstand normal use/abuse. If you go really light on the hardner the sub-surface will never fully cure. The finish ends up flatter with less hardner but 10-1 is about the limit of how low you can safely go. Duracoat also allows color mixing so if you are the experienced artistic type you can add the appropriate color to the base color to subdue it and get about the same result as using less hardner. I'm sure there is a color chart out there somewhere that spells out what results one color/shade mixed with another will give you. I would suggest staying within the limits of 10-1 to 14-1 mixtures. My humble opinion...