Registered Receiver Question

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04-21-18, 08:41
PatrioticDisorder

Registered Receiver Question

So I’m getting the machine gun itch, I was originally looking at the RDIAS because I like using my AX556 lowers and there is one dude on YouTube who was running that combo. That said, no way I can justify spending 35-40K on one. I’d also put a Colt M-16 lower at too high of a price for what I’m willing to pay, I’m sure it’s a great “investment”, but I can’t see myself ever selling it (I also plan to buy an SMG, but that decision seems much easier), I want this to shoot.

So that leaves me with either a factory machine gun Colt 614 (if I can find one), probably at the upper end of what I’d want to spend or an Olympic Arms, Sendra, Colt Sporter or whatever other conversions are available out there. I’m also considering a RLL because I can run it in an AX556, but from what I’ve gathered, sounds like a lot of BS associated with it, far from ideal and probably over priced for what it is. So this leaves me with a few questions for you guys who know about this stuff.

1. I plan to put all new lower parts on the receiver, VLTOR A5, Geissele SSF, Geissele maritime bolt catch, etc (all quality parts). Would this devalue a Colt 614? I’m guessing changing the parts on a Colt M-16 would devalue it, am I correct?

2. More than likely I’ll be sending a converted lower to M60Joe and/or US anodizing (unless I end up with a Colt 614) to make sure the lower would be in good shape (brought in to spec and reanodized). What concerted lowers are considered to be more favorable? Is there like an order? Make Colt Sporter>Sendra>Olympic Arms (my order may be way off, which is why I am asking)?

3. Any advice in finding deals on RRs? I live in Naples, FL & I’m always in Miami, so Ruben is always an option, but from what I hear his prices aren’t the greatest (although compared to Only The Best in Broward his prices seem reasonable, relative to the market).

Thank you guys in advance.
04-21-18, 11:44
JoshNC

You want to go Colt 614 or a forged non-Colt registered receiver lower. There is no need to swap out the bolt catch on a 614. Leave that in place. Swap the fcg (geissele SSF, no contest) and stock to your heart’s content. The only stock I would not swap is a Colt factory M16 Carbine, but that’s a non-sequitor on a 614. Swapping out Colt parts that can easily be replaced (upper, FCG, fixed stock, pistol grip, etc) will not devalue the firearm at all. Just be sure to keep those parts and don’t sell them. David Spiwak is a good place to find Colt m16s.

The non-Colt RR lowers are an excellent option. I would definitely send to Victor at US Anodizing to bring it up to spec and reanodize. If you’re doing that, go ahead and have all new internals installed. Think long and hard about whether a Ares/Fightlight MCR beltfed upper is something you may want in the future. If so, have their bolt catch installed by Victor after anodizing.

I would avoid a converted Colt (ie a semiauto Colt that was converted) as all use the larger two screw front pin. I would look for a Sendra converted by Oly, Frankford, etc. The SGW billet receivers are known to be soft, avoid those. And I would also avoid cast Essential Arms lowers.

Re: Ruben, he is outstanding. His prices reflect the fact that he is a premium dealer with an impeccable reputation. You pay more for the peace of mind that you’re not going to get taken. Keep in mind you’ll also pay sales tax on an in-state transaction with a dealer.

The Colt 614 is a great shooter. Some don’t care for them because they are not marked “M16”. They are a factory original select fire Colt and cost substantially less than an M16 marked Colt. Look at the numbers when you consider a non-Colt RR vs. a 614. You can likely find a 614 for $22-24k. You’ll need to spend about $1k to bring a non-Colt RR up to spec and reanodize once you factor in shipping costs. You need to find a really good deal on a non-Colt RR to make it a better deal than a 614. As a side note, be CERTAIN you have personal insurance that covers it while in transit and while getting repaired BEFORE you ship it. Historic and Collectors Insurance I believe cover your items in this scenario. Jack Richardson at Eastern Insurance is who wrote my policies for both companies. I currently insure with Historic through Jack/Eastern Insurance.
04-21-18, 13:25
superuk

As you are in Naples you have a reputable dealer in town,
John Thedford www.nfasales.com .
04-21-18, 14:05
Bret

David Spiwak has an excellent Colt M16 and an excellent Colt M16A1, each for $25,025. He also has a Colt 614, but it's $24,525. $25,025 is really close to your price point. Consider that you wouldn't have to get the Colt receivers reworked/refinished.
https://www.davidspiwak.com/guns/
04-21-18, 17:12
JoshNC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret

David Spiwak has an excellent Colt M16 and an excellent Colt M16A1, each for $25,025. He also has a Colt 614, but it's $24,525. $25,025 is really close to your price point. Consider that you wouldn't have to get the Colt receivers reworked/refinished.
https://www.davidspiwak.com/guns/

Exactly.
04-21-18, 19:19
PatrioticDisorder

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshNC

You want to go Colt 614 or a forged non-Colt registered receiver lower. There is no need to swap out the bolt catch on a 614. Leave that in place. Swap the fcg (geissele SSF, no contest) and stock to your heart’s content. The only stock I would not swap is a Colt factory M16 Carbine, but that’s a non-sequitor on a 614. Swapping out Colt parts that can easily be replaced (upper, FCG, fixed stock, pistol grip, etc) will not devalue the firearm at all. Just be sure to keep those parts and don’t sell them. David Spiwak is a good place to find Colt m16s.

The non-Colt RR lowers are an excellent option. I would definitely send to Victor at US Anodizing to bring it up to spec and reanodize. If you’re doing that, go ahead and have all new internals installed. Think long and hard about whether a Ares/Fightlight MCR beltfed upper is something you may want in the future. If so, have their bolt catch installed by Victor after anodizing.

I would avoid a converted Colt (ie a semiauto Colt that was converted) as all use the larger two screw front pin. I would look for a Sendra converted by Oly, Frankford, etc. The SGW billet receivers are known to be soft, avoid those. And I would also avoid cast Essential Arms lowers.

Re: Ruben, he is outstanding. His prices reflect the fact that he is a premium dealer with an impeccable reputation. You pay more for the peace of mind that you’re not going to get taken. Keep in mind you’ll also pay sales tax on an in-state transaction with a dealer.

The Colt 614 is a great shooter. Some don’t care for them because they are not marked “M16”. They are a factory original select fire Colt and cost substantially less than an M16 marked Colt. Look at the numbers when you consider a non-Colt RR vs. a 614. You can likely find a 614 for $22-24k. You’ll need to spend about $1k to bring a non-Colt RR up to spec and reanodize once you factor in shipping costs. You need to find a really good deal on a non-Colt RR to make it a better deal than a 614. As a side note, be CERTAIN you have personal insurance that covers it while in transit and while getting repaired BEFORE you ship it. Historic and Collectors Insurance I believe cover your items in this scenario. Jack Richardson at Eastern Insurance is who wrote my policies for both companies. I currently insure with Historic through Jack/Eastern Insurance.

Thank you Josh, I didn’t even think of insurance to and from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superuk

As you are in Naples you have a reputable dealer in town,
John Thedford www.nfasales.com .

Good to know, he doesn’t seem to have any M-16s in at the moment, lots of HK though. I will keep my eye on his site and definitely reach out at some point, prices look fair too and obviously having a local dealer would be very convenient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret

David Spiwak has an excellent Colt M16 and an excellent Colt M16A1, each for $25,025. He also has a Colt 614, but it's $24,525. $25,025 is really close to your price point. Consider that you wouldn't have to get the Colt receivers reworked/refinished.
https://www.davidspiwak.com/guns/

Thank you, with those price differences, it seems it may be worth going with the M16A1.
04-21-18, 23:38
MegademiC

Ok, im curious. Why would you not prefer a RLL that can swap between reciecer/ firearms?
My understanding was :
that RDIAS were preffered for shooters,
RLL WAS 2nd.
Lowers were more collectors items.

The above posts explain that there are shooter RLowers, and i get that, but rdias/rll can switch between firearms. Whats the drawback?
04-22-18, 01:36
JoshNC

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegademiC

Ok, im curious. Why would you not prefer a RLL that can swap between reciecer/ firearms?
My understanding was :
that RDIAS were preffered for shooters,
RLL WAS 2nd.
Lowers were more collectors items.

The above posts explain that there are shooter RLowers, and i get that, but rdias/rll can switch between firearms. Whats the drawback?

Have you ever seen a RLL? I own two Colts, an a1 marked “M16” and a 614. When I purchased mine, DIAS were less than a Colt factory m16. And links were really cheap. I personally would not own a lightning link. My Colts are shooters. I like the fact that they are 100% reliable without the need to tinker. I do wish I purchased a couple DIAS back when they were cheap.
04-22-18, 07:40
PatrioticDisorder

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegademiC

Ok, im curious. Why would you not prefer a RLL that can swap between reciecer/ firearms?
My understanding was :
that RDIAS were preffered for shooters,
RLL WAS 2nd.
Lowers were more collectors items.

The above posts explain that there are shooter RLowers, and i get that, but rdias/rll can switch between firearms. Whats the drawback?

I’m far from an expert in this area (hence my post), but from what I’ve been able to gather, the RLL is sort of a machine gun hack or as some call it, a “paper clip” machine gun. You have to modify a burst FCG to even get select fire (Geissele SSF out of the question), it must be timed perfectly or you run into the issue of bending/breaking paddles (potential reliability issues), must run a Colt Sp-1 type of semi auto bolt carrier (kinda quirky) and swapping hosts isn’t that simple, you cannot have the RLL (or RDIAS for that matter) removed from the host and swapped to another host without taking out the FCG because otherwise it would be considering “manufacturing a new machine gun”which is a BATFE no no.

I’m leaning heavily away from a RLL, but hypothetically if I went the route of RLL, I’d have 1 lower it would stay in... And also 1upper it would be used with because of RLL timing issues and wear. The rear tab for the pin on the upper often needs to be shaved down to fit the paddle for the RLL and it wears over time. The RDIAS essentially simulates a normal automatic sear, much less quirky issues with it, but sometimes does need to be fit to a lower and actually uses a non-standardized spring that must be changed from time to time. Often times this spring comes from pens. That said, I can see the appeal to owning a RDIAS (mainly using a modern lower, like the AX556), but not 38-40K appeal. The more I read, the more I have realized a RR is the way to go and yes, Colt M16s hold more value, mostly because they are factory machine guns and you know everything was done right on them (in spec), there is some collect ability to them as well (why the prices of Colt M16s have rose higher faster than others and why there are still a few NIB Colt M16s that exist).