Bolt catch out of spec?

Is there any way to tell if you're bolt catch is out of spec? I'm having an issue with the bolt on my .22LR Upper locking back prematurely, before the magazine is empty. The manufacture of the adapter block I am using (Better-Mag S&W .22 Rimfire Magazine Adapter) reasoned that my bolt catch may be out of spec and causing the malfunction. I'm not going to re-hash the entire story here, but if you are interested you may read this thread.

The bolt catch (and the rest of the LPK) is from White Oak Armament, the lower is a Seekins SP15 forged lower, and I assembled it myself. As stated the adapter is the Better-Mag adapter from Redi-Mag. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any way to verify that my bolt catch is out of spec or not, before I call WOA and inquire about getting a replacement. I really want more to go on other than just saying, "Well, I'm having issues with another product and the manufacture of that product said yours may be bad." Please understand that I am not intending any disrespect toward EITHER of these manufactures, or implying fault. Both have been excellent to deal with in my past experience and have great customer service. That is why I'm trying to do as much homework on my own first before asking customer service to fix a problem I haven't even completely narrowed down yet.

A bit more background info: Both the lower and the CMMG .22LR upper are nearly new, both having a round count of 200. I have not yet mated this lower to a complete 5.56 upper, and I do not currently have an assembled 5.56 upper to try for any testing. Has anyone ever had this problem, or a similar problem, with either a .22LR upper and adapter, or a standard 5.56 upper? How did you fix it, and where you able to determine the cause? I understand that I could replace the entire adapter and the LPK for less than $100, but I'd rather not spend money on new parts when I don't even know definitively what's wrong.

Thanks.

So I guess the lack of responses means the SOP is to just start replacing parts until one of them fixes the problem? Doesn't seem very efficient... If that's the case can someone at least give me some recommendations for a high quality bolt catch that can be purchased separately? I've been looking for an LMT but can't find one for sale by itself. I also noticed the design of the colt bolt catch differs from just about everything else I've seen... why is this? Is the colt better or is it a patent issue? Also, should I be replacing the spring and plunger as well or just the catch to start?

Sounds to me like the spring might be too weak and allowing the recoil to activate the bolt catch. I'd first try replacing the just the spring or maybe the spring and detent at the same time. Remember that you should replace the roll pin since you will have had to punch it out...though it's not the end of the world if you want to wait and see if the spring resolves the issue.

It's possible that the catch itself is bad...but I kind of doubt it. If it locks back reliably after the last round, and stays out of the way(other than when it gets bumped up) then chances are pretty good that it's fine.

I'd look at SAW, G&R, and Brownells for the parts. Just pay attention when using Brownells...they carry the good stuff, but they also carry crap. And the price difference when looking at springs/pins/etc, just isn't great enough to skimp.

The problem with these kinds of issues and many issues in fact is that it is hard to diagnose over the internet.

1. Do you own another AR? If so, then put a normal upper on the lower in question and test it.

2. If it works then logically one must conclude that the upper or the kit (whatever it is) may be bad.

3. If doesn't work then you will to get another spring, and bolt catch. You can contact WOA and they may say "pound sand" there's nothing wrong or they may say "send it back". They might also ask you how you came to the conclusion it was the catch.

4. Personally I would go to Brownells and get a Colt bolt catch and a spring. If it works then you have the answer. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. If you don't need it then you have a spare. All AR owners should have some parts containers with extra stuff exactly for this reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badger89

Is there any way to tell if you're bolt catch is out of spec? I'm having an issue with the bolt on my .22LR Upper locking back prematurely, before the magazine is empty. The manufacture of the adapter block I am using (Better-Mag S&W .22 Rimfire Magazine Adapter) reasoned that my bolt catch may be out of spec and causing the malfunction. I'm not going to re-hash the entire story here, but if you are interested you may read this thread.

The bolt catch (and the rest of the LPK) is from White Oak Armament, the lower is a Seekins SP15 forged lower, and I assembled it myself. As stated the adapter is the Better-Mag adapter from Redi-Mag. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any way to verify that my bolt catch is out of spec or not, before I call WOA and inquire about getting a replacement. I really want more to go on other than just saying, "Well, I'm having issues with another product and the manufacture of that product said yours may be bad." Please understand that I am not intending any disrespect toward EITHER of these manufactures, or implying fault. Both have been excellent to deal with in my past experience and have great customer service. That is why I'm trying to do as much homework on my own first before asking customer service to fix a problem I haven't even completely narrowed down yet.

A bit more background info: Both the lower and the CMMG .22LR upper are nearly new, both having a round count of 200. I have not yet mated this lower to a complete 5.56 upper, and I do not currently have an assembled 5.56 upper to try for any testing. Has anyone ever had this problem, or a similar problem, with either a .22LR upper and adapter, or a standard 5.56 upper? How did you fix it, and where you able to determine the cause? I understand that I could replace the entire adapter and the LPK for less than $100, but I'd rather not spend money on new parts when I don't even know definitively what's wrong.

Thanks.

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As a data point, they bolt catch in my WOA LPK has worked perfectly.

First guess (and cheapest remedy) is the spring is out of tolerance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

The problem with these kinds of issues and many issues in fact is that it is hard to diagnose over the internet.

1. Do you own another AR? If so, then put a normal upper on the lower in question and test it.

2. If it works then logically one must conclude that the upper or the kit (whatever it is) may be bad.

3. If doesn't work then you will to get another spring, and bolt catch. You can contact WOA and they may say "pound sand" there's nothing wrong or they may say "send it back". They might also ask you how you came to the conclusion it was the catch.

4. Personally I would go to Brownells and get a Colt bolt catch and a spring. If it works then you have the answer. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. If you don't need it then you have a spare. All AR owners should have some parts containers with extra stuff exactly for this reason.

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Thanks for the reply Gunz, I appreciate your advice. Unfortunately I don't have another upper to try out at the moment, and even if I did I could not use it on this lower since I am still waiting on my A5 buffer. :(

I do have a handful of spare LPK parts that I ordered when I ordered my kit from WOA, including a bolt catch spring, plunger and roll pin, but not the catch itself. Since you mentioned the Colt bolt catch, can I ask your opinion on the design variance between the Colt and those made by other makers? Does it serve a functional purpose?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thopkins22

Sounds to me like the spring might be too weak and allowing the recoil to activate the bolt catch. I'd first try replacing the just the spring or maybe the spring and detent at the same time. Remember that you should replace the roll pin since you will have had to punch it out...though it's not the end of the world if you want to wait and see if the spring resolves the issue.

It's possible that the catch itself is bad...but I kind of doubt it. If it locks back reliably after the last round, and stays out of the way(other than when it gets bumped up) then chances are pretty good that it's fine.

I'd look at SAW, G&R, and Brownells for the parts. Just pay attention when using Brownells...they carry the good stuff, but they also carry crap. And the price difference when looking at springs/pins/etc, just isn't great enough to skimp.

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Thanks for the advice. I'm doubting the issue is the catch as well, which is why I still haven't called WOA. I could try swapping everything out, but that still wouldn't eliminated the "free play" in the adapter unit I mentioned in the other thread, which I believe is the real culprit. FWIW, the tension on the catch feels similar to other ARs I have owned/handled... which probably doesn't mean much. I'm really itching to just file down the top of the Better-Mag catch a hair and see what happens, but then I'm probably pretty well screwed if I want to return it.

Just curious, if I were to remove the bolt catch, spring, and plunger and insert a small spacer (like a bb of some sort) behind the spring and reassemble everything, this would add extra tension to the spring, correct? I'm only considering this for diagnostic purposes, not as a "fix". If the increased tension fixes the problem, then I'll replace the spring, probably with another brand. If not, then I know that my springs are fine and it's a different issue, right? The reason I ask is because the spring I installed and the spare I ordered with it were identical as far as I could tell, so I'm not sure I could determine much by swapping them.

Also, will Grant sell individual parts from his famous LPKs? I know they were back in stock a few days ago but now they're out again.

Badger,

I simply mentioned the Colt one because the chances are that it will be done right. I have used others with no issue as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

Badger,

I simply mentioned the Colt one because the chances are that it will be done right. I have used others with no issue as well.

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That's what I figured, and that is probably what I'll do if I end up replacing the bolt catch. Thanks for the clarification.

I have had and seen a number of off brand bolt catches over the years that were noticeably different from Colt's. IIRC most were DPMS supplied through Brownell's (and probably anybody else who uses the same supplier as DPMS). The protrusion that engages the tab on the mag follower is shorter and would not reliably engage PMags. I will only buy original Colt catches now. Maybe your .22lr BHO was designed for one or the other and has problems with the other?

advntrjnky