Primary Arms 1-6 ACSS vs Vortex Viper PST Vs Trijicon 1-6 for DD M4V11

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05-30-17, 21:18
ICEMAN550

Primary Arms 1-6 ACSS vs Vortex Viper PST Vs Trijicon 1-6 for DD M4V11

I am looking for a magnified optic for my DD M4V11. I currently have an aimpoint pro on it. I have some experience with scoped bolt guns (winchester 70 30-6 and a remington 700 308, but I am no expert. I have competed in a few local club 3 guns matches, but I want to try some bigger events for the experience. I really like the ACSS Reticle, based on videos and reviews, but I am open to options. At 47 and still working 60+ hour weeks, I just want to have fun. I plan on retiring in 3 years and need a new hobby since I am too beat up to compete in powerlifting anymore. My current AR set ups are:

DDM4V11-Geissele SDC trigger,MBUS, yankee hill vertical grip and streamlight TLR-1HL.

Colt LE6920- New and will be getting the aimpoint pro, magpul furniture, milspec trigger. This will be a training rifle set up similar to work rifle.

Colt M4 with Aimpoint H-2-quad rail with surefire light, milspec trigger.

S&W Sport with quad rail, eotech 518, Magpul rear sight, milspec trigger and streamlight TLR-1 HL. This was my old training rifle, but now probably be a beater rifle.

I might even try to sell the eotech and put the $$$ towards a better 1-6 optic. We did have eotechs issued, but have switched to aimpoints. I like the eotech, but don't mind just running the hard sights. Anyway looking for opinions for the DD 3 gun optic, but would like to keep it under $1000 for optic and mount. If I sell the eotech, then I could put the funds towards the 1-6. I have never even used a magnified optic on an AR. I always used iron sights until about 7-8 years ago I started using red dots. Any and all advice is appreciated since this will be something new for me. Thank you!
05-30-17, 23:05
Mrgunsngear

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICEMAN550

I am looking for a magnified optic for my DD M4V11. I currently have an aimpoint pro on it. I have some experience with scoped bolt guns (winchester 70 30-6 and a remington 700 308, but I am no expert. I have competed in a few local club 3 guns matches, but I want to try some bigger events for the experience. I really like the ACSS Reticle, based on videos and reviews, but I am open to options. At 47 and still working 60+ hour weeks, I just want to have fun. I plan on retiring in 3 years and need a new hobby since I am too beat up to compete in powerlifting anymore. My current AR set ups are:

DDM4V11-Geissele SDC trigger,MBUS, yankee hill vertical grip and streamlight TLR-1HL.

Colt LE6920- New and will be getting the aimpoint pro, magpul furniture, milspec trigger. This will be a training rifle set up similar to work rifle.

Colt M4 with Aimpoint H-2-quad rail with surefire light, milspec trigger.

S&W Sport with quad rail, eotech 518, Magpul rear sight, milspec trigger and streamlight TLR-1 HL. This was my old training rifle, but now probably be a beater rifle.

I might even try to sell the eotech and put the $$$ towards a better 1-6 optic. We did have eotechs issued, but have switched to aimpoints. I like the eotech, but don't mind just running the hard sights. Anyway looking for opinions for the DD 3 gun optic, but would like to keep it under $1000 for optic and mount. If I sell the eotech, then I could put the funds towards the 1-6. I have never even used a magnified optic on an AR. I always used iron sights until about 7-8 years ago I started using red dots. Any and all advice is appreciated since this will be something new for me. Thank you!

I only have one of them but FWIW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS-ZSJPZT1I
05-31-17, 05:52
gaijin

I have two of the PA's 1-8's; both the 1st and 2nd focal plane PA's and 1-6 Trijicon "Accupoint" with mil reticle.
They are "apples to oranges" in comparison.

The Mil reticle Trijicon was acquired for an SPR build that is used at moderate range- it is neither particularly fast, nor the illumination too bright.
It is precise, glass good and repeatable.

The (second focal plane) PA reticle is fast for CQB scenarios, lume reasonably bright, glass is not in same league with Trijicon.
The first focal plane PA's has much better glass, but is considerably heavier- and 3/4 times the cost of the second focal plane scope.

No experience with Vortex.
05-31-17, 15:23
ICEMAN550

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrgunsngear

I only have one of them but FWIW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS-ZSJPZT1I

Mrgunsngear, Your video was what first drew me to the Primary Arms. I really look forward to your reviews. You have just the right amount of shooting, technical info and opinion, without taking up hours of time. Please keep it up!
05-31-17, 15:33
ICEMAN550

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin

I have two of the PA's 1-8's; both the 1st and 2nd focal plane PA's and 1-6 Trijicon "Accupoint" with mil reticle.
They are "apples to oranges" in comparison.

The Mil reticle Trijicon was acquired for an SPR build that is used at moderate range- it is neither particularly fast, nor the illumination too bright.
It is precise, glass good and repeatable.

The (second focal plane) PA reticle is fast for CQB scenarios, lume reasonably bright, glass is not in same league with Trijicon.
The first focal plane PA's has much better glass, but is considerably heavier- and 3/4 times the cost of the second focal plane scope.

No experience with Vortex.

Thank you for the reply. I guess I need to do a little more research because I don't know the difference between first and second focal plane. I have been training with firearms for a long time, but I have rarely went past 300 yards with any rifle. Living in New York there just isn't many places to shoot even past 100 yards, but I am working on a transfer to a more gun friendly state with more opportunity to shoot distance.
06-11-17, 14:04
HCM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICEMAN550

Thank you for the reply. I guess I need to do a little more research because I don't know the difference between first and second focal plane. I have been training with firearms for a long time, but I have rarely went past 300 yards with any rifle. Living in New York there just isn't many places to shoot even past 100 yards, but I am working on a transfer to a more gun friendly state with more opportunity to shoot distance.

First focal plane scopes have reticles which will increase and decrease in size as maginification increases or decereases. The reticles on FFP scopes remain "true" scale so ranging and BDC features will be true regardless of magnification.

Second focal plane scopes have reticles which stay the same size regardless of maginification. Any ranging or BDC features are only valid at the highest magnification.

Personally I prefer SFP on general purpose LPV's like 1-4 and 1-6. FFP is good for Precision scopes usually with top end magnification of 10x or more. Your purpose will dictate which is "better".
06-11-17, 15:56
RHINOWSO

Trijicon and Vortex also do much better in an often overlooked category.

Resale value.

Primary Arms has done great upping their game - Vortex is probably 5-ish years ahead of them in the way they make and sell optics.
06-11-17, 20:09
ICEMAN550

Quote:

Originally Posted by HCM

First focal plane scopes have reticles which will increase and decrease in size as maginification increases or decereases. The reticles on FFP scopes remain "true" scale so ranging and BDC features will be true regardless of magnification.

Second focal plane scopes have reticles which stay the same size regardless of maginification. Any ranging or BDC features are only valid at the highest magnification.

Personally I prefer SFP on general purpose LPV's like 1-4 and 1-6. FFP is good for Precision scopes usually with top end magnification of 10x or more. Your purpose will dictate which is "better".

That makes sense. I have used the 4x ACOG before. Why even bother with anything in between on SFP low power scopes? Seems like it would be better to just have 1X and then either a 4X or 6X.
06-12-17, 15:00
Unreconstructed

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICEMAN550

That makes sense. I have used the 4x ACOG before. Why even bother with anything in between on SFP low power scopes? Seems like it would be better to just have 1X and then either a 4X or 6X.

I disagree. Using a 6x mag optic with a 24mm objective in low light only gives approx. 4 mm exit pupil.
Dropping the mag back to 3x or 4x will give a brighter image.
06-12-17, 15:02
RHINOWSO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreconstructed

I disagree. Using a 6x mag optic with a 24mm objective in low light only gives approx. 4 mm exit pupil.
Dropping the mag back to 3x or 4x will give a brighter image.

And so does the rest of the world.

It depends on the situation - sure, on a square range shooters will go from 1x to Max, then back on a LPV with not much use of what's in between. But when using the weapon, say for hunting or other types of things, you may dial into a bit, or out a bit to see what you want to see instead of just 1x or 4/6/8x.

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