New Shield sans TS - first range visit. Result: 1 Failure to eject - UPDATE

Due to other shooting projects & articles, I haven't gotten to put as many rounds through the Shield as I would have liked. Since my last post in this thread I've run another 100-150 rounds of Remington 115 grain FMJ & Federal 115 grain FMJ through the Shield without an issue. Not that many rounds, but both of these rounds had issues with the gun previously.

I also fired 50 rounds of Federal 124 grain HST JHPs without an issue.

Then ran about 40 rounds of Federal 147 grain HST. The only issue I had was loading from a fresh magazine with the slide locked back. I hit the slide release and the first round caught up on the feedramp and did not feed. I had this happen the first time I shot the gun after getting it back with the same ammo, but with a different magazine. At that time I wrote it off to a bad magazine, but now that I have had it happen with a different magazine, I see a pattern and it is definitely disconcerting. In both this and the prior case, it seemed that the mouth of the hollowpoint was catching on the feed ramp. I never had any of these particular failures to feed from a slide locked back while using the slide release before sending the gun back the last time. That was the third time sent back and they replaced the entire slide, barrel, & all attendant components.

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Originally Posted by Ed L.

Due to other shooting projects & articles, I haven't gotten to put as many rounds through the Shield as I would have liked. Since my last post in this thread I've run another 100-150 rounds of Remington 115 grain FMJ & Federal 115 grain FMJ through the Shield without an issue. Not that many rounds, but both of these rounds had issues with the gun previously.

I also fired 50 rounds of Federal 124 grain HST JHPs without an issue.

Then ran about 40 rounds of Federal 147 grain HST. The only issue I had was loading from a fresh magazine with the slide locked back. I hit the slide release and the first round caught up on the feedramp and did not feed. I had this happen the first time I shot the gun after getting it back with the same ammo, but with a different magazine. At that time I wrote it off to a bad magazine, but now that I have had it happen with a different magazine, I see a pattern and it is definitely disconcerting. In both this and the prior case, it seemed that the mouth of the hollowpoint was catching on the feed ramp. I never had any of these particular failures to feed from a slide locked back while using the slide release before sending the gun back the last time. That was the third time sent back and they replaced the entire slide, barrel, & all attendant components.

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What do you think the chances are that the magazine design is the culprit...maybe the release angle?

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Originally Posted by Redhat

What do you think the chances are that the magazine design is the culprit...maybe the release angle?

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I don't know. It didn't have this particular problem before I sent it in the last time. It had other problems . . .

I tried to recreate the issue at home. I loaded up the problem mags with Federal HST 147 grain, locked the slide back, inserted the mag and hit the slide release. I then removed the magazine, racked the slide to remove the round in the chamber, then loaded another round onto the top position of the magazine, locked back the slide, and repeated the process. Within a few rounds I got, a duplicate of the failure to feed I experienced at the range when hitting the slide release with a locked back slide. I had this happen twice within about 10 rounds.

I then did the same thing with about 70 different rounds of some Federal 115 grain JHP without experiencing this problem. The Federal 115 grain JHP is a shorter round with a rounder profile closer to that of FMJ.

Please read the disclaimers after the photos.

Here's a photo that I took of one of the loading malfunctions I experienced at home:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psff759427.jpg

Here's a bad photo of the Federal 115 grain JHP 9BP next to the Federal 147 grain HST. Note the difference in length and profile of the two rounds.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps3dff46fb.jpg


Disclaimer 1: This is one of the few times I've been glad that my Shield has a manual safety and the only time I have used it after first working with the gun and discovering how small, unergonomic, and hard to disengage as part of the drawstroke the safety is.

Disclaimer 2: The above described exercise is generally the type of thing that people describe trying to do at home right before they had an ND. It gets repetitive and all it takes is one lapse of attention and you have an ND. It's not the thing to do while watching television. My late friend Paul Gomez often said that pulling the trigger after you unload the gun is not part of the unloading process.

Disclaimer 3: I did not rechamber the same round. After each chambering I loaded a new round to the top position of the magazine and repeated the process.

Disclaimer 4: Yes, I realize that the Fed 115 grain JHP is an outdated round by today's standards. No, I don't think what I did was a valid function test for anything but feeding the first round from the magazine from a locked back slide when using the slide release. I have about 100 rounds of this ammo and will run it through the gun when I get the chance.

Disclaimer 5: Yes, I've spent way, way too much time on this one gun. Maybe I should send it back to Glock

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Originally Posted by C4IGrant

I typically carry HST 124gr + P or the Ranger version. Magtech also has a 124gr bonded load that is nice.



C4

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is it not true that +p is wasted in a short barrel pistol? I've been told that the + velocity is due to more of a slower powder and needs a long(er) barrel to take advantage. otherwise it's just flash and noise outside the barrel. this makes sense to me...

Call me extremely conservative but small guns and hollowpoints don't always mix well. I would only shoot or carry it with hardball.

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Originally Posted by CornCod

Call me extremely conservative but small guns and hollowpoints don't always mix well. I would only shoot or carry it with hardball.

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You're kidding right?

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Originally Posted by CornCod

Call me extremely conservative but small guns and hollowpoints don't always mix well. I would only shoot or carry it with hardball.

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Small, light projectiles at low velocities due to the reduced barrel length? I'd literally choose a high frequency of fixable stoppages over the drastically reduced ability to incapacitate a threat with anything less than a CNS hit. 9mm projectiles out of 3" barrels have the ability to be very minimally lethal.


Seems pretty reasonable that the 147gr bullet size and shape can tolerance stack with magazine lips and feed ramp geometry to create some FTF's...

I've had the good fortune to own a few hundred handguns during the last 50 years(no kids). I observed that compact models would frequently fail to feed the top round from a loaded mag when pressing the slide release. However, the sling shot procedure usually allowed the slide to feed the first round without fail. With the small, finicky pistols I discovered that the slide must be pulled 100% back and then released. Otherwise, sufficient slide velocity was not reached. Frequent offenders were the Walther PP series, Kahrs, Stars, Kel-Tecs, and LCPs. The Walther PP line, of course had no external slide release, and retracting the slide and releasing it was necessary, but you really had to pull back hard and then release.

Flitz polish, a Q-tip, and a little effort will slick up feed ramps, breech faces, and any other contact areas. On the breech face, you only need to hit the area on the lower half--under the firing pin hole down. While you're there, check the extractor for burrs and roughness. Go back to the range and blow some hot ammo through the pistol. Start off by feeding the first round from another mag with one or a very rounds. Before you finish, you'll see that your pistol now functions fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed L.

I don't know. It didn't have this particular problem before I sent it in the last time. It had other problems . . .

I tried to recreate the issue at home. I loaded up the problem mags with Federal HST 147 grain, locked the slide back, inserted the mag and hit the slide release. I then removed the magazine, racked the slide to remove the round in the chamber, then loaded another round onto the top position of the magazine, locked back the slide, and repeated the process. Within a few rounds I got, a duplicate of the failure to feed I experienced at the range when hitting the slide release with a locked back slide. I had this happen twice within about 10 rounds.

I then did the same thing with about 70 different rounds of some Federal 115 grain JHP without experiencing this problem. The Federal 115 grain JHP is a shorter round with a rounder profile closer to that of FMJ.

Please read the disclaimers after the photos.

Here's a photo that I took of one of the loading malfunctions I experienced at home:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psff759427.jpg

Here's a bad photo of the Federal 115 grain JHP 9BP next to the Federal 147 grain HST. Note the difference in length and profile of the two rounds.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps3dff46fb.jpg


Disclaimer 1: This is one of the few times I've been glad that my Shield has a manual safety and the only time I have used it after first working with the gun and discovering how small, unergonomic, and hard to disengage as part of the drawstroke the safety is.

Disclaimer 2: The above described exercise is generally the type of thing that people describe trying to do at home right before they had an ND. It gets repetitive and all it takes is one lapse of attention and you have an ND. It's not the thing to do while watching television. My late friend Paul Gomez often said that pulling the trigger after you unload the gun is not part of the unloading process.

Disclaimer 3: I did not rechamber the same round. After each chambering I loaded a new round to the top position of the magazine and repeated the process.

Disclaimer 4: Yes, I realize that the Fed 115 grain JHP is an outdated round by today's standards. No, I don't think what I did was a valid function test for anything but feeding the first round from the magazine from a locked back slide when using the slide release. I have about 100 rounds of this ammo and will run it through the gun when I get the chance.

Disclaimer 5: Yes, I've spent way, way too much time on this one gun. Maybe I should send it back to Glock

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I also use Federal 147gr HSTs and I tried to replicate the issue you have described at the range. About half way through my range session of 200rnds, so the gun was hot and feed ramp dirty, I loaded the top round with an HST and repeatedly chambered the round out of both my mags maybe about 2 dozen times using 5 rounds of HSTs, I didnt want to chamber a round too many times due to bullet setback. Even then the bullet looked pretty beat up by the time I fired it. I pretty much did it till my thumb was raw and I never got a failure to feed.

Total rounds through my shield: 666rnds :D 0 stoppages

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Originally Posted by vicious_cb

I also use Federal 147gr HSTs and I tried to replicate the issue you have described at the range. About half way through my range session of 200rnds, so the gun was hot and feed ramp dirty, I loaded the top round with an HST and repeatedly chambered the round out of both my mags maybe about 2 dozen times using 5 rounds of HSTs, I didnt want to chamber a round too many times due to bullet setback. Even then the bullet looked pretty beat up by the time I fired it. I pretty much did it till my thumb was raw and I never got a failure to feed.

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It seems to be an individual thing with guns. Not all Shields are cursed and yours may be fine. My Shield was fine for the first 1200 rounds or so. Then I started having problems, sending it back to the factory, and new problems emerged when I got it back.

When I was doing the chambering test from slidelock I described, I only chambered each round once before putting it back in the box to avoid setback.