Reasonable Gun Control Laws

[sboza]

I disagree. I know of a felon who is still doing time in Federal Prison for something he did not commit. What was his crime? He was a Gun Dealer whose employee was caught allowing Straw Purchases to occur (two recorded by camera during a BATFE sting). This same employee rolled on his boss to save his own worthless skin. But by all accounts the employee went through the required training but just did not put 2-and-2 together.

The FFL Holder and Class 3 Dealer and was never present on any of the incidents and had no knowledge of the crimes. He was a former Marine who had a regular job but also ran a Gun Shop from his basement to supplement his income. He ended up taking a plea bargain because the ATF wanted to drag his wife (and co-owner of the Gun Shop) into the crime which she also had no knowledge of.

There are a lot of felons who should never be considered felons because their crimes were not only of the non-violent nature; some were outright trivial (IE: bounced a $501.00 check). What can be gained by anyone for taking away the rights of such individuals to defend themselves and their families because of someone else's actions.

IMHO, anyone convicted of ANY violent crime, whether a felony or a misdemeanor should be restricted from ever owning a firearm. This includes Stalkers (which is only a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions).

At least you are intelligent which is more than can be said for quietshooter.

If you read my very first post, I did acknoledge that some folks are screwed unfairly. I proposed to fight unfair laws and in a later post even supported a process to reinstate rights (which already exists in many states). I'll forgive the incomplete reading.

I know good people get screwed over but the actual cases are few and far inbetween. So, to increase my own knowledge of such cases, I am going to ask you for some DETAIL. Quietshooter couldn't back up anything he claimed, hopefully you can.

1) Could you provide the name and/or news articles describing the events surrounding the gun dealer case? There are no super secret squirrel issues keeping you from posting this info.

2) I would like to know who was charged and convicted of a felony for bouncing a $501.00 check.

Please do this for the members here. It really not enough to say I heard from a guy trying to make a point on the internet about something and he either heard of or claims to have first hand info.

eta - Unlike quietshooters sketchy claims, I can actually picture the first case you describe. Usually there is a lot more to every story so it would be really nice to have more information. Please don't take this request as a challenge.

[Iraqgunz]

LISTEN UP. STOP WITH THE BULLSHIT PERSONAL ATTACKS AND NONSENSE. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE CLAIMS THAT YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS INNOCENT, ETC...BE PREPARED TO PROVIDE SOME DETAILS OR BACK IT UP. IF YOU CAN'T THEN LEAVE IT ALONE.

ANYMORE PERSONAL ATTACKS AND YOU WILL GET THE HAMMER.

[Iraqgunz]

The info about Switzerland is dated and they have made quite a few changes to their laws- and not for the good. When I went there last in 1994 they still had the awesome laws.

http://guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

An interesting article that contrasts Swiss gun laws and culture with ours.

Some of the points seem key in the effort to make it all work.

[Safetyhit]

Anyone who believes there should be no gun laws is as dopey an ideologue as any libertard who believe all guns are evil.

[MegademiC]

Anyone who believes there should be no gun laws is as dopey an ideologue as any libertard who believe all guns are evil.

Why? The reason our country is where its at is because people ask "why not" when making laws instead of "why". There are no need for laws against things, just actions. If you violate someones rights, you reap the consequences. I should be able to own whatever I want gun-wise.

What gun laws are necessary and why? This is assuming violent criminals that cannot be trusted with guns are locked up(they cant be trusted without guns either). Maybe I'm missing something, but I have yet to hear one legit reason for regulation.

[Safetyhit]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have yet to hear one legit reason for regulation.

Then yes, you have missed something. However fortunately the common sense principal of common sense laws still rule the day for us regardless of individual viewpoints.

Also perhaps consider you are speaking to a New Jersey resident who resents being hindered by excess gun laws. Laws that unjustly and needlessly deny me my right to carry concealed while endangering myself and my family to serve a liberal cause.

That being the case, I don't want the violence prone nut job next door being armed. This would endanger my family even more and obligate me to have to possibly exchange fatal gunfire with him at some point. It's really not very complicated unless your simply being idealogical.

[MegademiC]

Then yes, you have missed something. However fortunately the common sense principal of common sense laws still rule the day for us regardless of individual viewpoints.

Also perhaps consider you are speaking to a New Jersey resident who resents being hindered by excess gun laws. Laws that unjustly and needlessly deny me my right to carry concealed while endangering myself and my family to serve a liberal cause.

That being the case, I don't want the violence prone nut job next door being armed. This would endanger my family even more and obligate me to have to possibly exchange fatal gunfire with him at some point. It's really not very complicated unless your simply being idealogical.

Ok, maybe Im just retarded. What am I missing? Also, your scenario does not apply if violent criminals are locked up.

So what exactly do you support regarding gun laws? What reason do you feel these law/laws are necessary?

[Safetyhit]

Ok, maybe Im just retarded. What am I missing? Also, your scenario does not apply if violent criminals are locked up.

Listen buddy, you don't understand who you are talking to and what my background is regarding these issues. You are also continuing with the ideology. I'll go a little further with this and then you can believe what you will.

Your first mistake is to assume that all individuals known or otherwise likely to commit an act of violence are incarcerated. This is so far from accurate I won't touch it beyond that assessment.

Second, when I was 18 I was convicted of a felony involving a firearm and had my rights taken away for years. I served no jail time, but it was hell on earth regardless. All because I fired warning shots into the air at 3 thugs armed with various weapons who were on my property as a result of their road rage. I defended myself, my friend and my sister and paid a very high price for it because of the laws here and because one of the punks had a father in the State Police.

However my record was expunged over a decade ago and I own several firearms once again. The detective at my local police station who processes firearm ID's and pistol permits is a personal friend, so much so that he endorsed me for a position sitting on a board with the Burlington County Superior Court that I currently still hold. I have discussed this here before and really don't want to go any further with it at this time.

My point is that along the way I learned a lot about how the system works and who can slip through the cracks. Many are incarcerated for a time but are still damn mean and angry when they are paroled or otherwise released. Many have serious anger and physiological issues which (believe it or not) their time in prison did not correct.

There is a time and a place for everything, including laws. You may say "Well **** it, I don't care who is armed because I have all I need and am ready for them at any time". But that isn't the case for most citizens and as a father I don't want to have to be worried about winning the shoot-out with my crazy neighbor or whether one of his errant shots will kill an innocent to satisfy someone's ideology. Just like I don't like being unable to carry for the exact same reason.

[Clint]

The info about Switzerland is dated and they have made quite a few changes to their laws- and not for the good. When I went there last in 1994 they still had the awesome laws.

Thanks for the update 'Gunz.

For me, the most important part of that article was the inexorable linking of guns, personal/social responsibility, criminal activity and law enforcement.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Anyone who believes there should be no gun laws is as dopey an ideologue as any libertard who believe all guns are evil.

So much for complying with the mod's request on personal attacks. . .






Last I checked murder, rape, armed robbery, burglary, stealing, kidnaping, et al. . . .are all illegal.

We all know that gun laws are only heeded by the law abiding. So in fact it is a moot point as people who make the choice to commit crimes choose not to follow any laws to begin with so who expects them to follow laws in regards to guns?

How about we ban criminals? Why don't we execute people who prove to society that they will contribute nothing and only wreak havoc, mischief, and victimize the innocent?

If we took care of business we would not be having this discussion.