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Thread: AAR: Southnarc Edged Weapons Overview (EWO) , Indiana, July 2012

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    AAR: Southnarc Edged Weapons Overview (EWO) , Indiana, July 2012

    Most of you guys know me, I was reminded this weekend by a few students that I may just post a bit on the internet........... But for the guys out there running a google search, not involved in training, guns, and forums a little background.

    Ive got A LOT of formal training. Firearms, combatives, and tactics training to include but not limited to Larry Vickers, Kyle Defoor, Ken Hackathorn, Randy Cain, Tom Kier, Jason Falla, Modern Combative Systems, Giles Stock, and a few previous courses with Craig Douglas (southnarc) about whose course this review is written. Suffice it to say Im not a new guy, although we all where once. In addition I have brief amount of former Taekwondo training and currently train Mauy Thai and MMA at www.fightclubpittsburgh.com for the last several months although not at internet badass levels , but more at realistic working family man 1 day a week at the gym levels.


    shivworks.com

    I have taken both ECQC and AMIS with Craig before, and am the Host for him here in Pittsburgh.

    EWO was hosted in Indiana by Jeff http://shivworks.com/?page_id=2 , and if your anywhere near there I suggest you contact him about attending future courses. Jeff is a long time student of Craig's and does a wonderful job on the range doing course monkey work but also has a strong understanding of the subject and was very helpful with being hands on with the students working techniques.

    For this course both Paul Sharp and Larry Lindenman where present as very competent AI's and Id like to throw my sincere thanks out to those guys for being incredibly helpful in that role and for being solid , real dudes.

    Having gotten that out of the way the course work itself is probably best left the center of any course review.

    Day 1 starts out at exactly like ECQC. We start with context. Why are we here, really, and under what conditions must anything we learn be functional. The stage is set. Topics covered include how criminals do business, and how do normal folks deal with everyday encounters without fantasy land chest puffing , drawing on everyone you meet, or knocking out a guy who really wants to know what time the bus is due. For those of us that live in the real world, where people are in and out of our personal space everyday this may not be the flashy picture on the internet cool discussion thread timed drill of the day portion of the curriculum but it is certainly , to me at least, the most practical training I have EVER seen.

    For those who have taken ECQC I would call day 1 a 90% ECQC day. The differences being that In Fight Weapon Access (IFWA) with a blade is not as strict or difficult as a gun, indexing the knife on target entangled is not as difficult as a gun, and dealing with a guy with a knife is slightly different that a gun. The basics are all still the same (as they should be, or else they wouldn't be...... basics ! ).

    Hardware discussion


    I am coming to the opinion now that if the foundation must change dramatically from one skill set to another, from one tool to another, or one context to another that perhaps you do not have one structure built on a strong foundation but really two separate structures all together. Gun guys can quickly relate this to "look at the sights and press the trigger" . It is basic, and everything else starts there.

    For the issues dealt with in this course that foundation consists of laying out the basics of the training paradigm as the "3 P's"
    Pressure
    Posture
    Position

    My understanding of these from Training with Craig is that all training must be validated under pressure by the student. The student must be able to successfully use taught techniques against a real resisting opponent in a competitive environment. The this does not mean the training is not safe (outside of soreness and bruising) , it just means with limited safety gear like protective helmets and hard foam knives you can scramble with a guy who is really trying to stop you, get a trainer out, and "give him the business". Both guys are trying to win, neither is allowing their opponent to succeed, and in this environment the specific skills taught must be functional.
    To be clear, all skills taught are first taught in a cooperative and non competitive environment. We go light, we help each other, we allow one another to feel how the techniques work. This is where most training stops, and if you never leave this place you can do all kinds of crazy bullshit and feel like a ninja warrior all day long. The pressure get ratcheted up until final evolution's are done full on, with all your buddies watching, with hard core music blasting out the pimp mobile .

    For the record, going berserker to "Ace of Spades" and completely dominating a 2 on 1 during the final evo's of TD2 with what could only be called "Violence of action" is probably one of the greatest things I have ever witnessed in a class.

    Starting entangled and neutral


    Day 2 is where , in my opinion, the material starts to diverge more deeply from ECQC. Now we are in a weapon specific class. Just as a shooting class should go over marksmanship, the draw, and manipulations so we then where able to get into the specifics of how to use the blade. Grip, edge orientation , and basic targeting where all covered. The material is simple, and robust. I cannot overstate that, the course work is deep, thoughtful, well designed, and can be used immediately by the student successfully in the aforementioned pressurized environment.
    The basics include a point driven method which works well with a blade in either edge orientation , a pen, or any other object you can hold onto. Basic short hacking cuts are also taught, as well as footwork, adapting the platform to the get maximum advantage from the blade , ranging, and maneuvering. Both edge in and edge out cuts are addressed, but the total number of techniques are limited and powerful .
    Non-entangled fights and also incorporated on TD2 where TD1 concentrates on the worst case scenario entangled fight.

    Ranging and zoning


    On personal notes, I had a few "light bulb moments" in this class. Thats to Larry's excellent coaching work I finally got my hips under my head entangled and had the grappling equivalent to the first time you trust your sights, have a decent trigger press, and nail a target. Thats a big win for me, and it is progress. I also had a lot of failures, I didnt go to default and caught 2 (IIRC) good solid hits from a guy with a competitive boxing background before I got into the fight with my bell rung. I got my back taken and seat belted in during the 2 on 1 while the other guy beat me with a (hard foam) bat, and more than a few time where I lost track of a hand it came back with blade (an experience shared by many from both sides). There where some good sloid wins too that I worked hard for , and places where I saw real improvement in my ability under pressure. There's also a lot of stuff I have to unlearn.


    Default position


    Ive got some work to do ! But for today Im bruised up, tired, and am taking a well earned day off to lay on my couch and watch bad movies.

  2. #2
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    Nice AAR, Southnarc is hopefully gonna come out this fall to California. I am a bit apprehensive as I have 0 hand to hand experience but I've read enough of these to know this is medicine I need to take!

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    Quote Originally Posted by G_M View Post
    Nice AAR, Southnarc is hopefully gonna come out this fall to California. I am a bit apprehensive as I have 0 hand to hand experience but I've read enough of these to know this is medicine I need to take!
    Do it.

    let me rephrase that .... DO IT!

    prior experience is not needed, thats why your there after all, to get training not to show how trained you are. Its like guys not signing up for a Vickers Level-1 Pistol class because they haven't already had a pistol class.......... see where Im going ?

    My AAR from ECQC last year
    http://aar.greygrouptraining.com/201...rthage-nc.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by G_M View Post
    Nice AAR, Southnarc is hopefully gonna come out this fall to California. I am a bit apprehensive as I have 0 hand to hand experience but I've read enough of these to know this is medicine I need to take!
    Did you wind up taking that course?

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    I did not see this AAR back when it went up...glad it got bumped. I'm a big fan of the ECQC paradigm and I always push people to take Shivworks classes. My training history is fairly similar to yours and includes a lot of the same names. Still...the number of !!! moments I've had with Craig always amazes me.

    I think I'm on for EWO in May and my second round of ECQC later next year. If you have a solid grounding in shooting fundamentals, to me this is the critical next step of defensive training. It's like the antithesis of carbine fantasy camp for accountants with ARs. Just all-real, all-applicable, all-important nuts-and-bolts street level survival training. Should almost be mandatory.

    Craig/Larry/Paul at one class...talk about a who's who of ECQC.
    Full disclosure: I'm the editor of Calibre Magazine, which is Canada's gun magazine. In the past I've done consulting work for different manufacturers and OEM suppliers, but not currently. M4C's disclosure policy doesn't seem to cover me but we do have advertisers, although I don't handle that side of things and in general I do not know who is paying us at any given time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropist View Post
    I did not see this AAR back when it went up...glad it got bumped. I'm a big fan of the ECQC paradigm and I always push people to take Shivworks classes. My training history is fairly similar to yours and includes a lot of the same names. Still...the number of !!! moments I've had with Craig always amazes me.

    I think I'm on for EWO in May and my second round of ECQC later next year. If you have a solid grounding in shooting fundamentals, to me this is the critical next step of defensive training. It's like the antithesis of carbine fantasy camp for accountants with ARs. Just all-real, all-applicable, all-important nuts-and-bolts street level survival training. Should almost be mandatory.

    Craig/Larry/Paul at one class...talk about a who's who of ECQC.
    We have EWO here in Pittsburgh in February.......
    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....-Pittsburgh-PA

    already have one Canadian on the way !

    yeah, it was an outstanding array of dudes. Ive got Paul Sharp coming this year too

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