Civilians & Home Defense

[Hawkeye]

I agree, but wanted people to start thinking about what they would do in a home invasion situation (don't think people put much thought into it). People also don't have ANY idea about their States laws.



C4

Unfortunately, this is true.
Some would probably accuse me of planning and preparing a bit too much. I dont see it that way though.

I tell people all the time, learn the laws in your area. Research previous incidents in the area, looking at as many details as possible in regards to what happened and the outcome. And thats just part of the beginning.

[BlackFox]

Grant - I think that's a good plan for a clear-cut situation. If I KNEW someone had broken in and could secure my family, I would never step one foot outside my bedroom door. I don't know too many people who recommend otherwise. The problem is that I would guess the average person has about 1,000 of those "hey - did you hear something?" moments for every obvious break-in. Unfortunately, at least in my case, this means I'm left checking the house in those "hey - did you hear something moments" right up until I find signs of a problem (and then immediately retreat, secure and call). About once every 3 months I have some loud noise in the house that I investigate in middle of the night. I don't know if it's deer, birds or the neighbors who think it's funny to watch me run around the house in underwear and vest with a machinegun

Vests, lights, defensive tools, cellular phones and family members with good heads on their shoulders are all great to have in these situations, along with an agreed-upon plan. I'm also a big fan of X10 lighting control systems. I have an alarm clock by each bed with a panic button on the top. It turns on every light (inside and out) within 1 second. If someone is willing to stay in your house when they know they're discovered and their exit path is compromised (well lit), then the ante has been raised IMHO. Either way, I'd rather whoever clears the house do it with the lights on. Dogs are an integral part of my plan, too. I actually have newspaper articles saved about situations where dogs are shot as part of taking a family to do harm to them. I feel I can justify someone shooting my dog in front of me as a sign they intend to impose grave bodily harm or death to me or my family (my dogs are small and not a threat to anyone besides giving away their presence, so why else would they want to take them out?).

I think knowing the basics of clearing a room is a good skill to have. I don't think you're playing Rambo right up to the point you realize there's a problem and don't retreat. I think having a family member with at least minimal skill and having a plan for this ahead of time is key. I'd like to take a class with room clearing drills some day.

[Diz]

Home invasion is a complex problem. Some points to consider.
By taking a CCW class in your area, you will get a pretty good picture of just what you can and cannot do to legally justify using deadly force.
A two story house gives you a huge tactical advantage.
Dogs are probably the best alarm sysytems.
Having loved ones in multiple bedrooms complicates the problem tremendously.
Try some FOF in your house and see what actually happens.
I think, personally, home invasion is a low possibility threat.
I think, personally, a street mugging or car jacking are high(er) possibility threats.
I think the most LIKELY threat to my safety is an auto accident.
Wearing your seat belt and driving defensively are statistically the best things you can do to ensure your personal safety.
Preparing for a 1% likely encounter and ignoring a 99% likely encounter is stupid. I bet everyone here (including me) is guilty of driving aggressively and taking stupid chances out there.
Perhaps a bit off-topic, but not when you consider the end goal. Home invasion is just a small piece of the overall subject.

[2IDdoc]

It sounds like C4Grant has a pretty well thought out plan. I also have a plan but it's much simpler. When plans involve multiple steps they get more and more likely to be Murphy'd. Mr. Murphy told me that when some Booger Eating Goblin decides to break into my house it will be in the middle of the night, I will be groggy, disoriented, and waaay behind on the OODA loop.

This means that whatever I am wearing is what I will be going to the breach in. I won't be strapping on a chest rig or body armor, or warming up night vision. I probably won't even have time to put on pants or shoes. Anything that needs to be switched on will be forgotten in my haste. The batteries in one of my flashlights will be dead no matter how religiously I check them. I will hopefully have time to un-ass my fart sack, and get my weapon pointed toward my predetermined lane of fire. In the time I am stumbling to the door of my bedroom to protect the hallway to the kids' rooms, hopefully my wife will have 911 on the horn.

My plan does not involve hoping that my dogs will fight the bad guys. Most dogs that are untrained are not attack dogs, and won't help much. My dogs are part of my early warning system. That is why they get the big bucks. The 100 pound German Shepherd in particular makes an awful racket when someone comes down our driveway. My dogs do not sleep in our room because they are more effective if placed at the top of the stairs down the hall. That is where their beds are, and that is where they sleep. They have a job to do, and my Shep takes it seriously.

I will not go hunting as stated before. I don't own anything worth shooting someone over. If I have time I will collect the kids into a defensive position.

I will be mounting a Trijicon Reflex on my 11.5" Bravo Company rifle that I get to bring home as soon as my tax stamp gets here. I like tritium for this particular assignment because there is nothing to switch on, it's small and light, and works pretty good indoors. My weapon will be ready to do its job as soon as I lay hands on it. Time is precious.

The alarm system will be something I look into soon. I love the panic button on the alarm clock thing that turns on all the lights. That's pretty sweet. I don't think the OC is such a great idea. My advice for what its worth(not much) would be to try it out first if you haven't already to see how it goes. Most entry teams that use OC or CS have gas masks to allow them to operate in such an environment. Then again, maybe it will work out great. I hope you test it and let us know, or educate us a little better on what brought you to decide that was the way to go.

Cool topic.

[M4arc]

Cohiba, I have to know what HH6 means

I'm kinda like Hawkeye in that I'm going to hold my cards close to my vest but I will say a few general items.

1 - I'm glad I live in VA.
2 - Dogs. Big dogs. The wife's father taught juvenile delinquents. Not just your average JDs but the worst of the worst: murders, rapist, gang bangers, etc. They all said Dogs were their #1 deterrent when breaking into a house.
3 - Alarms are a good thing. Sensors on the doors and windows and glass breaking detectors are great add-ons.
4 - Charge your cell phones in the bedroom

[rhino]

Minor "hardening" of your house should give you more time to react. Those laminations you can do on your windows are pretty cool. A bad guy could get through them, but it will be noisy and take more time than a bare window. Solid core doors with good deadbolts are a must-have. Even those cheap alarms you can attach to doors that sound when they're open can give you some additional time to react.

[Maximus]

I have the advantage of a two floor colonial home with only one stairway up. You can have all of the fun you want on the first floor and basement. But the stairs are no man's land.

We're in the same situation. They can party down stairs until the police show up, but the minute anyone tries to come up the stairs, all bets are off.

[QuietShootr]

Cohiba, I have to know what HH6 means

I'm kinda like Hawkeye in that I'm going to hold my cards close to my vest but I will say a few general items.

1 - I'm glad I live in VA.
2 - Dogs. Big dogs. The wife's father taught juvenile delinquents. Not just your average JDs but the worst of the worst: murders, rapist, gang bangers, etc. They all said Dogs were their #1 deterrent when breaking into a house.
3 - Alarms are a good thing. Sensors on the doors and windows and glass breaking detectors are great add-ons.
4 - Charge your cell phones in the bedroom

HouseHold 6 - otherwise known as the command element, for those who don't wear the pants in their house




My setup is similar to Grant's - G19 with X200 for my wife, cell phones charge in the bedroom. Carbine with SF light, body armor, and so on...

[One Shot]

Tear gas INSIDE your own home??? The first problem is to find out if your particular tear gas bomb uses heat/flame to generate the tear gas. If so, then you could be setting fire to your own home. Many of the police tear gas bombs burn extremely hot and can cause fires. In the 1970s there were several incidents where police tear gas grenades/bombs caused fires which destroyed/ruined several houses or buildings. Remember Cinque? The SLA? The kidnapping of Patti Hearst? Cinque and some of the SLA members died in a fire that was caused by a police tear gas grenade. The second thing to consider is the residual or after effects of tear gas. If you use tear gas in a place where there is carpeting, for many months afterwards people moving through the area will be kicking up tear gas that was left behind by the use of the grenade. Furniture, carpeting, lamp shades, curtains and so on will absorb various amounts of the tear gas and later on will release it just when you don't need or want it.

Here's what I suggest: If Johnnie Dirtbag breaks into your home, take care of him first. Once you've eliminated him as a problem, call an attorney of your choice. Day or night you should have your favorite attorney's phone number on speed dial or available in some fashion. Tell the attorney what has happened and listen to his advice. In fact, if you can, have him come to the scene right then to help control the damage. Somewhere along the way, you will have to notify the police. But no matter what, if you do talk to the police, make perfectly sure that you explain how afraid you were for your own life and the lives of your family members right from the very start of things. Also repeatedly say that you were not the aggressor and that you were defending your life and the lives of your family members. Don't be surprised if you do get taken to the police station, maybe in handcuffs, to talk to a detective or something. Keep repeating that you were afraid for your life and that you were defending the lives of your family members. If, however, the attorney says not to talk to any officers do just that. Be nice but firm in saying, "My attorney will answer any of your questions but, for now, I can't talk to you without my attorney present."

[C4IGrant]

Tear gas INSIDE your own home??? The first problem is to find out if your particular tear gas bomb uses heat/flame to generate the tear gas. If so, then you could be setting fire to your own home. Many of the police tear gas bombs burn extremely hot and can cause fires. In the 1970s there were several incidents where police tear gas grenades/bombs caused fires which destroyed/ruined several houses or buildings. Remember Cinque? The SLA? The kidnapping of Patti Hearst? Cinque and some of the SLA members died in a fire that was caused by a police tear gas grenade. The second thing to consider is the residual or after effects of tear gas. If you use tear gas in a place where there is carpeting, for many months afterwards people moving through the area will be kicking up tear gas that was left behind by the use of the grenade. Furniture, carpeting, lamp shades, curtains and so on will absorb various amounts of the tear gas and later on will release it just when you don't need or want it.

Here's what I suggest: If Johnnie Dirtbag breaks into your home, take care of him first. Once you've eliminated him as a problem, call an attorney of your choice. Day or night you should have your favorite attorney's phone number on speed dial or available in some fashion. Tell the attorney what has happened and listen to his advice. In fact, if you can, have him come to the scene right then to help control the damage. Somewhere along the way, you will have to notify the police. But no matter what, if you do talk to the police, make perfectly sure that you explain how afraid you were for your own life and the lives of your family members right from the very start of things. Also repeatedly say that you were not the aggressor and that you were defending your life and the lives of your family members. Don't be surprised if you do get taken to the police station, maybe in handcuffs, to talk to a detective or something. Keep repeating that you were afraid for your life and that you were defending the lives of your family members. If, however, the attorney says not to talk to any officers do just that. Be nice but firm in saying, "My attorney will answer any of your questions but, for now, I can't talk to you without my attorney present."

Yes, tear gas grenade is a very bad idea for multiple reasons. That is why I said OC grenade. The particular item I referred to in my post is much like a bug bomb (no flame).

In many states, you cannot use lethal force if the intruder is unarmed. Of course if the bad guy is armed, don't waste your time with non lethal forms of persuasion.

Contacting a lawyer and letting them talk to the police is always a very good idea (good point).


C4