Is a laser helpful?

[juliomorris]

I was wondering when this would come up...

You are right in thinking that pulling the trigger should be the last resort...however, I will counter your statement by saying that you should never even clear the holster unless you are 110% sure that you are actually going to pull the trigger. Of course, if the situation changes between the time that you clear your holster and get sights alligned, then that's different. But if I ever have to allign sights on someone, in self defense, then there's a really good chance that I'll be pulling that trigger.

Also, in some states, it is illegal to "brandish a weapon", so if you were to clear the holster, and not shoot, the tables could be turned on you and YOU would be the one in trouble instead of your attacker. Just something to think about if you happen to live in a place with those laws.

In other words, my mindset has changed over the last few years. It used to be "cool, I have a gun, I'm protected"....now its, "ok, I have a gun, but I'm sure as hell not going to use it unless I absolutely have to! I'll fight H2H first (if possible)...THEN move to deadly force if that's necessary". Every situation is different, but as an example, the George Zimmerman case where he was mounted and getting his head beat in, THEN used the gun.

I agree with what you're saying completely. If I draw my weapon it is with the intention of defending myself. I am just stating my reason for the laser and it isn't as an aiming device. Its the slim hope that the other fellow thinks twice about making me pull the trigger when that little red dot appears on his chest. Thats all it is a slim hope.

I don't agree with using a laser for the simple fact that they have a very short battery life and they are an electrical device that can fail. Unlike a RDS where I have my BUIS or my MTAC where the reticle is still visable or even a Aimpoint with its long battery life or night sights. Mine CTC has went dead a couple times while being carried in my suit case.

For training I say practice practice practice and not with the laser because you will become dependant on it. Train as you fight. Snap caps and prcatice trigger control in the garage.

Before I take my wife or daughters to the range for practice we go into the garage and practice with snap caps. With me watching their technique.

Another good idea is go to the range witha buddy and have him load your mags mixing in some dummy roads as you shoot so he can watch your technique.

As for Brandishing, if you ever have to draw your weapon even whe you don't fire immediately call 911 to report the attempted _________.

[LHQuattro]

I don't agree with using a laser for the simple fact that they have a very short battery life and they are an electrical device that can fail. Unlike a RDS where I have my BUIS or my MTAC where the reticle is still visable or even a Aimpoint with its long battery life or night sights. Mine CTC has went dead a couple times while being carried in my suit case.

For training I say practice practice practice and not with the laser because you will become dependant on it. Train as you fight. Snap caps and prcatice trigger control in the garage.

Before I take my wife or daughters to the range for practice we go into the garage and practice with snap caps. With me watching their technique.

Another good idea is go to the range witha buddy and have him load your mags mixing in some dummy roads as you shoot so he can watch your technique.

As for Brandishing, if you ever have to draw your weapon even whe you don't fire immediately call 911 to report the attempted _________.

You'll become dependent on a laser only if you let yourself become dependent on it, not unlike using a red dot sight on a carbine. If it fails, your irons are right there. Its up to you to learn to use them.

I shot an IDPA classifier once at 3 points down (90 round course of fire) when I just got started in IDPA a few years ago, final score of 130 (which was about my gunhandling speed at the time). I was pretty damn accurate and quite proud of myself.

I'm dramatically more accurate and faster now (low 90's and still improving)...not just faster, but more accurate at speed. Some weekly dry training with laser grips has been a big part of that improvement. I shoot plain old slowfire bullseye groups significantly better too.

Again, the faact that what you accept as "good enough" dry firing with sights become apparent as less than adequate with a laser, as movement with that red dot dancing around target. Same thing with the empty case drill. Congratulations...you pressed the trigger and the case didn't fall off. But that doesn't mean your trigger control is perfect. The laser will tell you just how good your trigger control really is. Or isn't. A barely perceptible movement (or even imperceptible movement) of your front site becomes a big deal 30 yds downrange with a laser (or red dot, or crosshairs, etc).

The ability to see any error in trigger control can be a big help...just like for guys shooting open guns with optics, or even low powered scopes.

Another place it really tells no lies is practicing shooting on the move. That has definitely made me more accurate.


Honestly, if I was less of a gamer, I would train with the laser even more (IDPA and USPSA don't allow its use). It can be quite valuable. There's no cheating doing dry drills with a laser. With iron sights, its tempting to say..."uh, yeah, that sight picture was good enough...sure I made my par time". With a laser, you're either on target or you're not...there's no gray area, and you're trigger control (or lack thereof) is instantly apparent. Instant precise feedback.

Properly used, it can be a valuable tool. Improperly used, its just more junk.


That's it. This thread has motivated me to practise with a laser more. Currently, maybe 1-2% of my live fire, and maybe 5% of my dry is with a laser. Think I'll up it to 30% for both.