AR15 Technique Question: VFG's

[tkoglman]

I have another question regarding AR15 shooting techniques. This one concerns the use of vertical fore-grips (VFG's) as a shooting aid.

I recently acquired one and I have been testing it out, dry fire. I mounted it as far forward as possible on a carbine length rail.

In that position, it seems to be fairly easy to use it as a support. I can use it as a monopod or I can press it up against the edge of a corner, canting the weapon, to brace it.

Are there any other techniques for using the VFG as a shooting aid, and how do they work out?

Thanks

[NoBody]

I'm the opposite. I keep my vertical grip as close to the magazine well as I can and still use it. I was trained to do this so that the weapon could still be employed while resting the handguard on a surface (e.g., a barricade, window sill, etc).

[jwalk84]

tkoglman-

I have recently moved my VFG out further on the rail. I used to keep them in pretty tight to the magazine well, but I feel I can control my recoil better and drive my carbine from target to target faster with the VFG out a little further.

I also try to avoid wrapping my thumb around the VFG, and try to keep it up against a rail panel cover. Hope that makes sense.

Justin

[NoBody]

Makes sense. I just received Kyle Lamb's book today and it too shows him with his vertical grip all the way forward.

[Jay Cunningham]

One other thing you may notice in KL's book is him using the regular forend of the rifle to grip but using the VFG as a hand stop. He also demonstrated a position where you stack your feet and you can hook the VFG over your toes. Unconventional, but useful in certain situations.

[HolyRoller]

tkoglman, try lots of different things and see what works for you. Some instructors advise choking up on the VFG, that is, don't grab it by the low end, but set your hand as high up as you can.

I have a SureFire 900A VFG light and to keep from ADing the light, I have only my little finger actually on the vertical part. The middle and ring fingers are under the housing, the index finger rests forward, and the thumb curls up naturally. If I need the light, I slip my hand down until I can mash the vertical switches.

Try it without the VFG too. Looks like pretty soon I'll be issued a Colt 6721 with regular handguard and no VFG.

[Matt Edwards]

When I had to run one due to space constraints (tac light and PEQ2) I ran it "all the way out" (on a standard 7 inch rail). I don't have a PEQ anymore so I don't currently use a VFG. Either way, non shooting hand as far out as feasable.

If you need it, hang it. If you don't, don't.

Matt

[NCPatrolAR]

If shooting supine, I'll often push the VFG against my thigh (with the weapon canted) in order to give myself a bit more support. Makes it easier for me to pick up the sights also.

[Failure2Stop]

The VFG and it's use has taken on a "Weaver vs Isocelese" type of aura. Either way can be effective, as long as it works for you.

The VFG use and method is a series of compromises. The way a Three-Gun GM grips his gun is going to be different than the way a High Power Master holds his gun. Tactical use is going to be different than those two, and will be dependant on what weapon is being used, what armor is used, what attachments are on the gun, and what allows you to effectively use the weapon in your operational environment.

While using the VFG run fully forward on an M16A4 may give better short distance transitions (1 to 5 meters between targets), it will be almost impossible to maintain a proper firing grip during the non-shooting 99.9% of the time. The shooter should not have to alter anything on the gun to use it effectively, immediately. There is usually little warning when someone is going to start shooting, and any delay puts you behind the OODA Loop.

Application and intent should drive your practice, with informed reasoning driving your choice of technique. Do not make a choice simply based on how a certain individual performs with a certain technique. A well trained and practiced Weaver shooter will be able to control recoil and shoot rapidly without anticipation, while a new isocelese shooter will not, though that does not discredit the isocelese or grant the Weaver the top position either. The same applies to rifle/carbine shooting in any given environment.

[Jay Cunningham]

The VFG and it's use has taken on a "Weaver vs Isocelese" type of aura. Either way can be effective, as long as it works for you.

The VFG use and method is a series of compromises. The way a Three-Gun GM grips his gun is going to be different than the way a High Power Master holds his gun. Tactical use is going to be different than those two, and will be dependant on what weapon is being used, what armor is used, what attachments are on the gun, and what allows you to effectively use the weapon in your operational environment.

While using the VFG run fully forward on an M16A4 may give better short distance transitions (1 to 5 meters between targets), it will be almost impossible to maintain a proper firing grip during the non-shooting 99.9% of the time. The shooter should not have to alter anything on the gun to use it effectively, immediately. There is usually little warning when someone is going to start shooting, and any delay puts you behind the OODA Loop.

Application and intent should drive your practice, with informed reasoning driving your choice of technique. Do not make a choice simply based on how a certain individual performs with a certain technique. A well trained and practiced Weaver shooter will be able to control recoil and shoot rapidly without anticipation, while a new isocelese shooter will not, though that does not discredit the isocelese or grant the Weaver the top position either. The same applies to rifle/carbine shooting in any given environment.

Excellent post - thanks.