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Thread: Should I buy this Armalite upper?

  1. #1
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    Should I buy this Armalite upper?

    Hi guys,
    I know there's not alot of love for Bushy, DPMS, Oly, etc. However, I do not see much info good or bad about Armalite. My friend's 16in flat top shoots like a house on fire, and I may be interested in this upper:

    The M-15A4 Carbine Complete Upper Assembly with black 6" handguard features a double lapped, chrome lined barrel. The Picatinny Rail on the upper receiver allows rapid and repeatable interchange of removable iron or scope sights.

    Each ArmaLite Complete Upper Assembly includes a forged upper receiver assembly, barrel assembly, bolt carrier group and charging handle assembly. All complete upper assemblies are test fired as complete before shipping.

    Model: M-15A4 Carbine Complete Upper Assembly with Black 6" Handguard
    Caliber: .223
    Barrel: 16" Double Lapped, Chrome Lined
    Rifling Twist: RH 1:9"
    Muzzle Device: Flash Suppressor
    Front Sight Base: A2 Front Sight Assembly
    Upper Receiver: Forged Flattop with Picatinny Rail
    Finish: Hard Anodized Aluminum, Maganese Phosphated Steel

    That info was liberated straight from the Armalite site. I have e-mailed them asking the following questions:
    Is it a rifle upper, or carbine with M4 ramps?
    Is the upper T marked?
    What is the chrome lined barrel made out of, 4150 steel?
    Is it heavy under the handguards?
    Is the bolt HPT, shot peened, upgraded extractor, properly staked gas key?

    I'm not concerned about the CAR handguards, because I'll probably replace them anyway. I also have been on the fence about 1/9 or 1/7 twist, but I really don't plan to shoot anything heavier than 68gr Black Hills. If it's a good quality piece, I'll probably buy it for $450 delivered(new) with a carry handle. I figure I can save about $200 with this than an LMT. I'm not trying to cheap out or anything, but a good product is a good product, and $200 buys an RAS handguard or alot of ammo.

    Sorry for being long winded and thanks for the help.
    Jason

  2. #2
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    I say if it fits your needs and a good price,Go for it.I think (but don't quote me )the 1/9 is going to be 4140 I had to ask for the 4150 upgrade for my chrome 1/7 M-4 govt. profile from J&T.and the 1/7 was the only barrel done in 4150 that matched the M-4 I am building.now you know the Kool-aid drinkers will tell you NOOOOOOOOO don't do it .but again if it fits your needs and budget.just my.02


    NRA Member

  3. #3
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    Is it a rifle upper, or carbine with M4 ramps?
    Is the upper T marked?
    What is the chrome lined barrel made out of, 4150 steel?
    Is it heavy under the handguards?
    Is the bolt HPT, shot peened, upgraded extractor, properly staked gas key?
    In order...
    M4 ramps with matching anodized cuts in the upper.
    Yes
    4140
    M4 profile under the handguards (not HBAR).
    Unk on the shot peened, black extractor insert with o-ring. Weak staking.



  4. #4
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    Thanks for thye help guys. I think it's a good buy, but, is it a good match for my LMT lower setup?

    Eric,
    Has your upper served you well? Would you buy it again?

    Thanks again,
    Jason

    Oh yea, this'll be my patrol carbine.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb View Post
    Thanks for thye help guys. I think it's a good buy, but, is it a good match for my LMT lower setup?

    Eric,
    Has your upper served you well? Would you buy it again?

    Thanks again,
    Jason

    Oh yea, this'll be my patrol carbine.
    Mine was purchased as a complete weapon. I've only got a bit over 1k rounds through it, but zero malfunctions. I'm just finishing a review to post elsewhere, but can PM you with a link when I'm done.

  6. #6
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    I will not buy from a company that hasn't gotten the word that the gas-key needs to be staked and chambers should be 5.56.

    Eagle/Armalite (despite it's insistence that "AR stands for Armalite!") does not adhere to the original design concepts of the AR.

    There is a reason that Colt's (and LMT, Noveske, BCM, SDI etc) cost what they cost; it isn't about a status symbol, it's because they are worth it. Read AARs from trainers, Eagle/Armalite tend to do as well as Bushmaster, but better than DPMS or Frankengun.
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  7. #7
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    Trust me - I fully realize the value of $200.00 as it relates to ammo and accessories. I also recognize how that $200.00 also translates into properly and carefully built. Quality is also a feature whose value is determined by the end user and sometimes overlooked in favor of the bottom line. My AR-15 is being built by an armorer who understands the balance and I suggest you do the same. With a renewed interest in AR-15's being sparked and flames fanned by many on this board, I can honestly say that you'd be well served matching your LMT lower with an LMT upper. Good luck...

  8. #8
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    This link reviews the M15A4, with the same upper:
    http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...read.php?t=322

  9. #9
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    I'm reposting this from another site. This is obviously an After Action Report from a recent Carbine Operator's Course conducted by Pat Rogers and EAG Tactical in NC. Please take note of the areas in red. But after all it is your money, spend it how you want.

    *******
    EAG conducted a Carbine Operators Course at the Trigger Time facility in Carthage, NC.

    Trigger Time is an excellent facility with a great staff, TT’s owner, Tom Bullin, is a great guy who has been in business for a long time and had a great background.

    WX was spectacular for T1 and T1, a lucky break for us with the unsettled WX in the country this winter. T3 started off with threatening skies but only a few sprinkles. Once more the WX gods have smiled upon us….

    I set the pace for the course by managing to get mis orientated on the trip out on T1. The GPS wouldn’t accept the school address. I didn’t differentiate between, “road” and “lane” etc. Mega egg on face, though we still (barely) arrived on time.



    This class had the usual eclectic population of military, other DoD, cops, Feds and average guys. The mix is always interesting and welcome. The diversity of personnel leads to a terrific interchange of conversation regarding both real world and training applications of equipment. There were a number of friends in this class, including two who just returned from the show. One other Shooter had to leave for an OCONUS trip in the middle of T2, a real shame.

    A nice touch was Bobby Sivori, a retired NYPD ESU guy who was getting spun up for an OCONUS job. Bobby has never touched an M4, and has more plastic/ metal replacement parts than Lee majors, but still managed to function at a high level. I knew Bobby from the day, and it was nice having somebody who spoke a language I could understand.



    We had 5 T&E guns in this class. Two Sully guns on a lube test as well as three LWRC guns (there was a fourth LWRC gun in the class belonging to a retired USAF Col. as well). This is the second class for the Sully guns (appx 2600 rounds) and the first for the LWRC. We’re doing a long term eval on the LWRC carbines (appx 6 months) and will eventually publish this in SWAT Magazine (similar to the S&W M&P 15 Article).



    Equipment issues:



    We keep on stating that one should not fall in love with your magazines. One shooter had several of those old Brit steel SA80 mags. They didn’t work. We offered him several of the BCM magazines which we have just for this purpose. He refused, because he “liked” his. In a short time, he saw the bright shining light indicating that he had a malfunction 90% of the time he pressed the trigger and was holding up those that brought serviceable gear to class, and finally accepted the BCM magazines.
    We had a lot of PMAG’s in the class. The only problem noted was one that would not seat properly in a RRA gun- but would in Colt’s, LWRC etc.
    The more I see, the more I am convinced that my choice in using PMAG’s and BCM mags is correct.
    We had only two gun problems. A brand new Armalite would not cycle. The buffer spring was appx 1.5” short; the extractor and extractor spring were NG. We replaced all and it ran like a top for the rest of the week.
    A BM (with appx 250 rds on it) would not run at all. The gas key was not staked properly. However, the key had 3 pin prick type stakes, something we haven’t seen on a BM before. The shooter had sent the bolt someplace to be plated and it is possible that they switched the BCG -after all, parts are parts……;( .
    That is sarcasm for those not used to it.

    The extractor spring was too weak to function (4 coil, blue insert). The gun eventually became so problematic that Mike Hueser gave him his Noveske gun- which went down- as did this shooters 1911. This led us to consider that the shooter was in fact Bilé, and could be the true firearms Toxic Avenger.
    I eventually gave him one of the T&E LWRC guns, which he couldn’t break.

    This particular BM was topped with a unknown brand holo type optic that didn’t make it through the zeroing exercise. He finished with a loaner Aimpoint.

    “Just as good as”, isn’t. That is a fact, and not just an observation.

    One shooter had pressure problems with his WW White Box. Primers kept on popping…



    At every class we see people who perform under stress. Some do it well, and some struggle, but here is a common thread.
    Most people can shoot, though the quality of the finished product varies. Shooting is only one part of the equation, and you don’t have to be a world class technical shooter to win a fight. Indeed, an average/ above average shooter who has deeply embedded mean genes may be a better guy to have on your right flank.
    Where we see good shooters fail is when we force them to multi task. While we all “know” that only chicks can multi task, man can do it if properly trained.
    The majority of issues surface in manipulation- the hand jive that creeps up to bitch slap some in the face. Execute a speed reload? Pretty simple.
    Do it under time constraints?
    Do it as an individual- while all are watching?

    Do it with tight accuracy constraints?
    Do multiple reloads in one drill?

    Adding any/ all of the above creates a complexity to the underlying drill, and the unnecessary movements of some/ many show how uncomfortable they truly are.
    We often talk about the comfort zone- that which denotes that limited set of behaviors that a person will engage without becoming anxious.

    Some have an extended comfort zone, and some a more limited one. Those without good initial training and continuous sustainment training will revert to something akin to someone with ADHD, except they have loaded guns in their paws.
    Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast, and practice most definitely does not make perfect.
    It only makes permanent. The more that we do, under the eyes of a critic, will make us better.
    If not, well, there is always room at the barber college.



    Thanks to Mike Hueser for his patience and skill at keeping guns running and people on track. Thanks as well to Rob K for setting this up and Tim Bullin for allowing us to use the range.

    As always, mega kudos to those who continue to support us all; Larue Tactical, TangoDown, CamelBak, Viking Tactics, Bravo Company, Noveske and Crye.



    We'll get some images up later in the week.

    ********

    Hope this helps some.


    -RD62

  10. #10
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    I'm just a guy that likes to shoot, not an operator or anything, and am fairly new to AR's, so take that for what it's worth.

    I think have the exact upper you're looking at. Isn't this the Illionois State Police upper? I paid less than $400 during the Christmas sale. I currently have mine on a self assembled CMMG lower with Stag LPK.

    Mine's been good to go so far, maybe 1000 rounds of cheap Remington 55 grain and Privi XM193. Also some LC M855 and Hornday 75gr TAP. When I first put it on this lower, I was having trouble with the bolt holding open on the last shot and was afraid it was short stroking, but it wound up being a burr on the bolt catch on my lower that was causing it to bind. No problem with upper so far. I did replace the CAR handguards with a set of M4's I had.

    M4 barrel ext with M4 reciever cuts
    White T markings
    4140 steel, chrome lined, 1-9 twist
    Gov't profile under handgards, M203 cuts.
    Staking on my gas key was much better than picture posted above.
    Don't see an "F" on the FSB, but it sighted in fine.

    The chamber is 5.56 according to Armalite, on all of their chrome-moly barrels, and has been for several years. Why they still put .223 on their website, I have no idea.

    Accuracy is good, even with the 75gr TAP, at least to 100 yards.

    So, while it isn't top tier, if you can live with the 4140 steel and 1/9 twist, I think you'll be happy.

    Edit to add: I see that Armalite now shows to have Mil-spec chrome moly vandium (4150?) steel on their chrome lined barrels.

    Just my 2 cents.
    GEAUX TIGERS!!!! National Champs once again.

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