Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: Superior Arms

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    306
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)

    Superior Arms

    I'm a LEO and firearms instructor for my agency. This past weekend we hosted a basic patrol rifle school. Students shot somewhere in the area of 800 or 900 rounds of 5.56 over two days.

    There were a total of six students with the following rifles:
    -Colt 6920 (x2, plus mine)
    -RRA Entry Tactical (x2)
    -Daniel Defense (forget which variant)
    -Superior Arms

    All rifles were 16" M4 style models in various configurations. All performed well (including the RRAs) with the exception of the Superior Arms model. I wanted to give everyone some background and information should they ever find themselves considering a rifle from Superior.

    Prior to this school I provided a pre-course lecture to give the students information on selecting a rifle. This was essentially an explanation of key components of the TDP (those from "The Chart"), their meaning, and their importance. I suggested seeking rifles from Colt, BCM, DD, or LMT. One RRA, one 6920, and the DD were already owned by the officers. The remainder were purchased after receiving the information in the lecture.

    Superior Arms is a manufacturer based out of Wapello, Iowa and is relatively popular in this area. The officer that bought the Superior Arms rifle is originally from very near their operation and knows several of their people. I detected very early on that he would not buy anything else and did what I could to investigate their product. Emails to their LE rep inquiring about their TDP compliance were not returned. The officer who ultimately bought one of their rifles took my list of questions directly to them and finally got a response.

    Their response was at the same time encouraging and suspicious. In specific regards they provided good answers and appeared to be complying with the TDP. In every way that they weren't, they stated that they were able to, but also provided a reason why it was not necessary. They stated that there was "no noticeable difference" between a CAR and H buffer, that chrome lining was "not worth the money", that a 1:7" twist "would not work with 55gr ammunition", and that they did not MPI/HPT their bolts or barrels, but could do so for an additional charge. When it came time to order, our officer ordered a basic M4 style rifle and quickly found out that the 1:7" chrome lined barrel was not available. Superior offered to sell him an 11.5" barrel, which puzzles me, since Class III is pretty much a no-go in this state, and they should know that. He settled for a 1:9" chrome lined.

    Fast forward to the arrival of the rifle and our classroom day before the range. Our guy has purchased a single point sling and replacement rear plate, which he needs installed. It took a hammer and punch to get the takedown pin opened. It wasn't because it was a new rifle, it was because it was so far out of spec it wasn't even funny. Next, it took three people to loosen the castle nut, which we found was NOT staked, but was very cross-threaded. After finally getting the gun back together, it seemed to hold up during dry drills (loading, stoppages, etc). The mag well was in spec, which I gather is not always the case with Superior Arms' products. About half of the other Superior Arms lowers I have seen had mag wells far enough out of spec that they would not accept PMAGs.

    Now on to our two days at the range...

    We started with zeroing. We found that the rear sight elevation wheel was improperly assembled so that the wheel bottomed out at 6/3 minus two clicks. This was not encouraging. At 25 yards, we ended up with the rear windage approximately 20 clicks right to make center hits. This was verified with at least two additional shooters trying the rifle. We at least got it to where the shooter could consistently hit where intended and we got him qualified (state course is all 100 yards).

    On day two, we found that the zero had walked significantly overnight. Our first course of fire was a simple 50yd bullseye course to get everybody dialed in to their sights and triggers. This shooter ended up moving his windage to the wall and was still several inches off. Due to the range size and configuration, we actually had to stop the class for half an hour to investigate. I first verified that I got the same results. I did. Next, I removed the POS UTG picatinny light mount that Superior Arms had provided for the officer's TLR-1. This particular mount clamps to the barrel via four small screws. I suspected that the design was possibly affecting barrel harmonics. After removing the light mount and recentering the windage (mechanical zero) I found that I was hitting in about the same place as I had been with the windage walled out and the light mount on. We re-zeroed it and found that we were about 18 clicks right. The rifle stayed zeroed for the remainder of the day and the shooter was instructed to take the rifle back to the manufacturer and to force them to make it right.

    One other random concern: Superior Arms provided a quadrail on the rifle that was among the roughest, most poorly assembled I have ever seen. I advised against buying it, but the shooter elected to do so anyway. Supposedly this item is built by Superior Arms as well.

    So in summary, our shooter got a shoddily assembled, out of spec rifle. In addition to the problems with the rifle, the accessories sold by the manufacturer were unimpressive (UTG? Seriously!?!?). he paid somewhere in the $800 range for the gun. Another shooter managed to snag a very lightly used 6920 for $950.

    Just wanted to post an experience with this manufacturer. Approach with caution.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    175
    Feedback Score
    0
    That's too bad for Superior. I have one of their lowers and it very easily took a complete DPMS lower kit with no problems. I put it together with an Armalite upper and it shoots very well. Too bad for Superior. kwg

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Buckeye AZ
    Posts
    25
    Feedback Score
    0
    I am surprised as well I had been under the impression that they made a decent quality product. i have never had hands on one yet or talked to anyone owning one first hand but I thought the hum on the internet was good. Thanks for the write up on your experience.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    11,468
    Feedback Score
    46 (100%)
    $800 for a Superior Arms.

    CDNN had used Colt 6520's in excellent condition about two months ago. They were selling them for just under $800.

    Throw in a used flat-top M4 upper receiver from BCM for $70. Used Colt take-off Carry handles are about $50. I know you have the tools to swap the parts for him. Very fast, very light, very high quality.

    It always makes me sad. Hearing about guys whose asses are on the line, and buy third-rate gear.

    Maybe he can sell it on the EE over on TOS or GT, and invest the proceeds in a quality carbine. You think he will listen to you now?

    Thanks for the heads up, and stay safe.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    24,900
    Feedback Score
    104 (100%)
    Proof that the AR business and retards still coexist and breed. I would stay away from and and all products they make based on what you posted.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    615
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Thanks for that review. Hope they can fix things.

    Just to be clear, however, this doesn't sound like Superior FIREARMS, which is in another state I believe.
    Last edited by g5m; 05-04-11 at 10:47.
    former cat herder

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    306
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    Here's a link to the manufacturer so it is clear who they are:

    http://www.superiorarms.com/

    I have been lead to believe in talking with their people in the past that they used to primarily make parts for other manufacturers and at some point decided that they could make the whole rifle. I can't back that up, but that's what the guy always hocking their wares at the gun shows tells everybody.

    Will this officer get a new rifle? No. Or at least I highly doubt it. His primary motivator in choosing Superior was that they were a home town company to him. Despite being given all of the information to make an informed decision and then being told of the concerns with their eventual reply, he bought their gun. He is of the impression that they make "all of the FBI's AR-15s", the source of which I am not sure and do not believe. He's a good guy, and I understand why he's in the position that he is.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    32,830
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Wow. Those responses are the kind of shit I'd expect OLYMPIC ARMS to say.

    Hopefully the owner of that turd saw the light.
    Last edited by markm; 05-04-11 at 11:10.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Upstate South Carolina
    Posts
    262
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I used to run into them at the fun shows in Des Moines. Nice enough people that IMO would not knowingly share incorrect information, but still not the sharpest knife in the drawer. They seem to be a machine shop that got into AR15s from machining upper and lower receivers.

    I might buy a Superior stripped lower for a build, but wouldn't buy anything else from them when you have folks like BCM and DD selling known quality for such reasonable prices.
    Last edited by sdcromer; 05-04-11 at 11:28.
    Back in the land of Waffle House and sweet tea!!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in the back of your mind
    Posts
    163
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    That sounds about right for these guys. I had one lower that I got from them at a gnshow. Did not look at it till I got home. It was twisted. The whole reciever was machined off center. Look at this way. Imagine a clock,take the rec. looking at it from the front. Now, turn the rec. so it is 3 minutes past the hour. Now do all of the machining to the rec. They said nothing was wrong with it. That it was in MIL SPEC. But they sent me a new one to replace it.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •