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Thread: Fireclean with AR15

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    Getting towards the end of my deployment, closing the base down, so we have started expending all our excess ammo, earlier tonight myself and three others started an experiment (can't claim credit to it) one M4 lubed with CLP, one with Froglube, mine with EWL, and another with FireClean. We started doing mag dumps, taking breaks when the guns got too hot to handle. Our range time ended before we did a lot, but the CLP gun died at 10 or 11 mags, and the other three are still running fine, with 23, 18 and 24 mags thru them, with the only issues on my gun was due to bad feed lips on mag 11.

    Up early in the morning to continue the test.

    Ammo is a mixture of M855, M855A1 and about half a mag of the OTM rounds.
    So jealous! Any more results?
    I might disagree with your religion, your politics, your TTPs, and your use (or slaughter) of the English language. But make no mistake, I would still fight beside you in defense of freedom.

  2. #162
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    We basically just used each gun that had been using those particular lubes the whole deployment, so as far as I know there was no cross contamination among the lubes.

    The Froglube gun wasn't able to come back out to the second day of shooting, shooter had other tasks at hand. I believe the FireClean and EWL guns both ended with around 34 mags a piece, I don't know what sort, if any stoppages occured with the FireClean gun but mine with the EWL was starting to get sluggish around mag 32 and suffered one stuck casing with a blown primer, MK262, at mag 31. Simply ran out of time before getting it to completely choke. Also had one round that jammed the gun up, M855, failed to fire, Mag 33, and once I got it free I saw that the case had some pretty good dents just after the shoulder, I didn't load the magazine so I don't know if the round was like that to begin with.

    Once I get some info from the FireClean shooter I'll further update this. We did take some before pictures, and will take some after pictures to compare.
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  3. #163
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    I also learned that its important to put loctite on my thorntail flashlight mount, twice over the course of fire it worked itself loose so that the flashlight was sliding around in the ring.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #164
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    Fireclean with AR15

    Rero, just so I'm clear....you guys lubed the guns at the beginning of your test but didn't reapply any additional lube once you began shooting?


    Also, thanks much for your service! Stay safe out there.

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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    ...earlier tonight myself and three others started an experiment (can't claim credit to it) one M4 lubed with CLP, one with Froglube, mine with EWL, and another with FireClean.....the CLP gun died at 10 or 11 mags....
    So this is Rand CLP, correct? I've been considering ordering some, but this might change my mind.

  6. #166
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    That is correct, one individual lubed each gun as close to the same amount as possible and no more lube was added once the shooting started.

    Unknown in regards to the CLP, just whatever the Army issued stuff.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS-Maine View Post
    So this is Rand CLP, correct? I've been considering ordering some, but this might change my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    That is correct, one individual lubed each gun as close to the same amount as possible and no more lube was added once the shooting started.

    Unknown in regards to the CLP, just whatever the Army issued stuff.
    No, Rand CLP is a pretty new product and definitely now what that Army uses. He's talking about just regular CLP. Honestly I have no idea what the commercial variant would be but it's as basic as it gets.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    No, Rand CLP is a pretty new product and definitely now what that Army uses. He's talking about just regular CLP. Honestly I have no idea what the commercial variant would be but it's as basic as it gets.
    Royco, I believe. Not sure if they sell to civilian, it used to be Break Free, then Safariland or something.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    No, Rand CLP is a pretty new product and definitely now what that Army uses. He's talking about just regular CLP. Honestly I have no idea what the commercial variant would be but it's as basic as it gets.
    Good to know-thanks. I didn't want to jump to any conclusions without being sure. It seems good torture test and reviews of Rand CLP are pretty hard to find.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS-Maine View Post
    Good to know-thanks. I didn't want to jump to any conclusions without being sure. It seems good torture test and reviews of Rand CLP are pretty hard to find.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWG8ZFR7CAc

    Looks like they are using the older formula of Rand, regardless, this looks rather impartial to me.

  11. #171
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    Well, I treated 1 M4. It felt pretty crappy compared to Froglube that was on the gun before I removed it with Froglube cleaner**** and acetone before applying the Fireclean, VERY gritty. Meh. Anyway, I just took that same M4 out and cycled it a few times (half a day later). Very very different feel to it, different sound to it, everything. It feels a LOT! slicker, and there is no grater/gritty sound from the buffer spring/tube. All it did was sit in the closet, and I coated the hell out of it initially. It's not like anything migrated to a dry area. Was soaked to begin with. I'm not sure what occurred, but time seems like a legitimate factor in how well the weapon felt. I have not shot it yet, just hand-cycled before putting it away, and hand-cycled again just now. I just went and cycled it again. I remember thinking "Wow, this feels like crap compared to my other rifle with less rounds through it using *Brand X* lubricant". Now, I felt them side by side cycling (all they did was sit in the closet, nothing fouled anything), and I cannot tell a difference between the two. I don't understand it, but it is what it is. After sitting for 12 hours, FireClean feels radically different on the gun. Weird. I want to call bullshit on "conditioning", but it's really hard to after feeling the difference 12 hours can make. I still don't understand it, but I'm holding it, so it is what it is.


    **** (horrible stuff, DO NOT BUY THIS. When I got it, I sprayed some and it was nice. In 2 months, it has gone rancid and smells like shit. I mean, it's bad. Think laundry that you forgot in the washer for a week. Fetid musty odor. I felt guilty spraying it in the side even though I live alone. Foul. Sorry, but that's just rancid)


    *I am re-evaluating FireClean. Initially, I shied away from it due to poor performance compared to other lubricants when any salt was present, or the metal part was in contact with a wet object. However, in the 100% humidity test I performed, it did very well, and I have not seen people shooting corrosive ammo having any more issues with with than any other product, and it does seem to offer some benefits regarding fouling, and burn-off.
    Last edited by WS6; 10-17-13 at 10:52.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWG8ZFR7CAc

    Looks like they are using the older formula of Rand, regardless, this looks rather impartial to me.
    I completely forgot that I watched that a few weeks ago. I would agree with this being a pretty impartial comparison. Seems like they really concentrate on the ease of cleaning the bolt tail which is certainly beneficial, but I'm really looking to see a Rand CLP treated weapon with some serious rounds cranked through it. They just do two mags each which isn't all that many rounds.

    The idea of a CLP like Rand that does not recommend against tossing a regular petrol based lube in the mix if necessary is very appealing. I guess I'll just have to try some and see for myself.

    Sounds like you may have compared the two(Rand CLP/Fireclean). What did you think?

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS-Maine View Post
    I completely forgot that I watched that a few weeks ago. I would agree with this being a pretty impartial comparison. Seems like they really concentrate on the ease of cleaning the bolt tail which is certainly beneficial, but I'm really looking to see a Rand CLP treated weapon with some serious rounds cranked through it. They just do two mags each which isn't all that many rounds.

    The idea of a CLP like Rand that does not recommend against tossing a regular petrol based lube in the mix if necessary is very appealing. I guess I'll just have to try some and see for myself.

    Sounds like you may have compared the two(Rand CLP/Fireclean). What did you think?
    I have not shot them enough to form an honest opinion, although the Rand is better at low temperatures and corrosion prevention in my "kitchen testing", I have yet to hear of corrosion or frozen weapons from either of them in actual use.

    I did just buy an M&P22 pistol and SWR Spectre II suppressor. It's a filthy creature. I have cleaned it and lubed it with FireClean. I want to shoot it until it jams. With Rand CLP, it didn't have any issues in the short amount of time I shot it, but it was getting a bit gritty feeling after only 100 rounds. With the price and filth of .22 ammunition, I think this test might actually work out where I can test a platform to failure.

  14. #174
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    I think Fire Clean might need a cleaner surface to really get in there than what I originally thought.
    My first uses on rifles that had other lubes went basically like stripping it down, scrubbed and wiped down twice with Mpro7 cleaner, hose down with brake cleaner, put on 2 coats of Fire Clean over 2 days. It stayed shiny, so I thought I was fine.
    Later on a extremely dirty suppressed gun, I went OCD, parts washer, ultrasonic cleaner, 99,9% IPA bath, multiple times over 3 days. It took 4 coats over 4 days to maintain the shine.
    After seeing this, I took one of my original Fire Clean coated BCGs and tried the OCD cleaning. It took 4 coats as well, unlike the original 2 coats.
    The only thing I could figure was that my original cleaning probably wasn't thorough enough. Like the pores of the metal really weren't clean.
    I didn't have any problems at that time or since with it. But it's an interesting thing to find.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom12.7 View Post
    I think Fire Clean might need a cleaner surface to really get in there than what I originally thought.
    My first uses on rifles that had other lubes went basically like stripping it down, scrubbed and wiped down twice with Mpro7 cleaner, hose down with brake cleaner, put on 2 coats of Fire Clean over 2 days. It stayed shiny, so I thought I was fine.
    Later on a extremely dirty suppressed gun, I went OCD, parts washer, ultrasonic cleaner, 99,9% IPA bath, multiple times over 3 days. It took 4 coats over 4 days to maintain the shine.
    After seeing this, I took one of my original Fire Clean coated BCGs and tried the OCD cleaning. It took 4 coats as well, unlike the original 2 coats.
    The only thing I could figure was that my original cleaning probably wasn't thorough enough. Like the pores of the metal really weren't clean.
    I didn't have any problems at that time or since with it. But it's an interesting thing to find.
    Like I said, I thought "conditioning" was total bullshit, but when my rifle felt completely different, sounded completely different, and didn't smell nearly as much of burn't anodizing when rapidly hand-cycled after just sitting for 12 hours...I'm not so sure. There may be something to it. I cannot argue with tangible results.

  16. #176
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    I don't know if conditioning is BS or not. I'm really just guessing on the reason for the results I had. OCD cleaning did take more coats for sure. I had no issues with applying it the way I did originally, so it maybe overkill? I dunno?

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom12.7 View Post
    I don't know if conditioning is BS or not. I'm really just guessing on the reason for the results I had. OCD cleaning did take more coats for sure. I had no issues with applying it the way I did originally, so it maybe overkill? I dunno?
    There are some interesting theories on why this is so, but I'm a knuckle-dragger at heart, not a chemist, so I pretty much only trust what I see unless someone educates me that what I thought was right is not.
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  18. #178
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    Do you coat the chamber & bore with fireclean? If so, what do you use after the coating to get copper fouling out of the bore?

  19. #179
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    I've tried using it in the chamber and bore without ill effects like some oils do. I'm not convinced yet that it's ok for precision barrels, but that could change, I dunno yet?
    Some combo's get a carbon ring that you'll have to get out for precision, some don't.
    I don't get rid of the copper fouling until groups open up. Some barrels don't tolerate copper fouling switching between different bullets, like SMKs and TSXs, others do.
    That's something most will need to try for themselves.

  20. #180
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    If I've got a cleaned, oiled up gun and want to switch to fireclean, but don't have an ultrasonic cleaner or degreaser, would it be better to wipe it down and try to work fireclean in as soon as possible or fire a few hundred rounds and then clean and lube with fireclean?

    Related, my understanding is that fireclean will eventually rid the gun of existing lubricant, so completely drying it out isn't necessary (although most effective). Is that accurate, or do I really need to get a degreaser and completely clean it of existing chemicals?

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