We basically just used each gun that had been using those particular lubes the whole deployment, so as far as I know there was no cross contamination among the lubes.
The Froglube gun wasn't able to come back out to the second day of shooting, shooter had other tasks at hand. I believe the FireClean and EWL guns both ended with around 34 mags a piece, I don't know what sort, if any stoppages occured with the FireClean gun but mine with the EWL was starting to get sluggish around mag 32 and suffered one stuck casing with a blown primer, MK262, at mag 31. Simply ran out of time before getting it to completely choke. Also had one round that jammed the gun up, M855, failed to fire, Mag 33, and once I got it free I saw that the case had some pretty good dents just after the shoulder, I didn't load the magazine so I don't know if the round was like that to begin with.
Once I get some info from the FireClean shooter I'll further update this. We did take some before pictures, and will take some after pictures to compare.
I also learned that its important to put loctite on my thorntail flashlight mount, twice over the course of fire it worked itself loose so that the flashlight was sliding around in the ring.
Rero, just so I'm clear....you guys lubed the guns at the beginning of your test but didn't reapply any additional lube once you began shooting?
Also, thanks much for your service! Stay safe out there.
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That is correct, one individual lubed each gun as close to the same amount as possible and no more lube was added once the shooting started.
Unknown in regards to the CLP, just whatever the Army issued stuff.
Well, I treated 1 M4. It felt pretty crappy compared to Froglube that was on the gun before I removed it with Froglube cleaner**** and acetone before applying the Fireclean, VERY gritty. Meh. Anyway, I just took that same M4 out and cycled it a few times (half a day later). Very very different feel to it, different sound to it, everything. It feels a LOT! slicker, and there is no grater/gritty sound from the buffer spring/tube. All it did was sit in the closet, and I coated the hell out of it initially. It's not like anything migrated to a dry area. Was soaked to begin with. I'm not sure what occurred, but time seems like a legitimate factor in how well the weapon felt. I have not shot it yet, just hand-cycled before putting it away, and hand-cycled again just now. I just went and cycled it again. I remember thinking "Wow, this feels like crap compared to my other rifle with less rounds through it using *Brand X* lubricant". Now, I felt them side by side cycling (all they did was sit in the closet, nothing fouled anything), and I cannot tell a difference between the two. I don't understand it, but it is what it is. After sitting for 12 hours, FireClean feels radically different on the gun. Weird. I want to call bullshit on "conditioning", but it's really hard to after feeling the difference 12 hours can make. I still don't understand it, but I'm holding it, so it is what it is.
**** (horrible stuff, DO NOT BUY THIS. When I got it, I sprayed some and it was nice. In 2 months, it has gone rancid and smells like shit. I mean, it's bad. Think laundry that you forgot in the washer for a week. Fetid musty odor. I felt guilty spraying it in the side even though I live alone. Foul. Sorry, but that's just rancid)
*I am re-evaluating FireClean. Initially, I shied away from it due to poor performance compared to other lubricants when any salt was present, or the metal part was in contact with a wet object. However, in the 100% humidity test I performed, it did very well, and I have not seen people shooting corrosive ammo having any more issues with with than any other product, and it does seem to offer some benefits regarding fouling, and burn-off.
Last edited by WS6; 10-17-13 at 10:52.
The idea of a CLP like Rand that does not recommend against tossing a regular petrol based lube in the mix if necessary is very appealing. I guess I'll just have to try some and see for myself.
Sounds like you may have compared the two(Rand CLP/Fireclean). What did you think?
I did just buy an M&P22 pistol and SWR Spectre II suppressor. It's a filthy creature. I have cleaned it and lubed it with FireClean. I want to shoot it until it jams. With Rand CLP, it didn't have any issues in the short amount of time I shot it, but it was getting a bit gritty feeling after only 100 rounds. With the price and filth of .22 ammunition, I think this test might actually work out where I can test a platform to failure.
I think Fire Clean might need a cleaner surface to really get in there than what I originally thought.
My first uses on rifles that had other lubes went basically like stripping it down, scrubbed and wiped down twice with Mpro7 cleaner, hose down with brake cleaner, put on 2 coats of Fire Clean over 2 days. It stayed shiny, so I thought I was fine.
Later on a extremely dirty suppressed gun, I went OCD, parts washer, ultrasonic cleaner, 99,9% IPA bath, multiple times over 3 days. It took 4 coats over 4 days to maintain the shine.
After seeing this, I took one of my original Fire Clean coated BCGs and tried the OCD cleaning. It took 4 coats as well, unlike the original 2 coats.
The only thing I could figure was that my original cleaning probably wasn't thorough enough. Like the pores of the metal really weren't clean.
I didn't have any problems at that time or since with it. But it's an interesting thing to find.
I don't know if conditioning is BS or not. I'm really just guessing on the reason for the results I had. OCD cleaning did take more coats for sure. I had no issues with applying it the way I did originally, so it maybe overkill? I dunno?
Do you coat the chamber & bore with fireclean? If so, what do you use after the coating to get copper fouling out of the bore?
I've tried using it in the chamber and bore without ill effects like some oils do. I'm not convinced yet that it's ok for precision barrels, but that could change, I dunno yet?
Some combo's get a carbon ring that you'll have to get out for precision, some don't.
I don't get rid of the copper fouling until groups open up. Some barrels don't tolerate copper fouling switching between different bullets, like SMKs and TSXs, others do.
That's something most will need to try for themselves.
If I've got a cleaned, oiled up gun and want to switch to fireclean, but don't have an ultrasonic cleaner or degreaser, would it be better to wipe it down and try to work fireclean in as soon as possible or fire a few hundred rounds and then clean and lube with fireclean?
Related, my understanding is that fireclean will eventually rid the gun of existing lubricant, so completely drying it out isn't necessary (although most effective). Is that accurate, or do I really need to get a degreaser and completely clean it of existing chemicals?
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