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Thread: Smith & Wesson M&P-10

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    Smith & Wesson M&P-10

    You know what separates Man from the lower animals? Power tools, baby. Big, honkin' powertools. If there is one thing the 7.62x51 has, it's plenty of power and for the AR fan, the M&P-10 is just the tool to harness and deliver that power!

    S&W's big AR comes in a hard plastic black case that is more durable than a cardboard box but not by much. Still, it works well transporting the rifle to and from the range. Along with the rifle was the usual paperwork, chamber flag and weapon lock.

    S&W lists its weight at 7.7 lbs, the barrel at 18" barrel and length is 40.9 inches long with the stock extended and 37.6 collapsed. My PSA carbine with a 16" barrel is about 36.5 inches extended and roughly 32.75 inches collapsed. That makes the M&P-10 a good 5 inches longer than the smaller AR! (I have not weighed my 5.56 carbine, but it does feel lighter than the M&P-10.)

    This version of the M&P-10 came with M4 style furniture. The buttstock has a thin, plastic buttplate and with the milder recoil of the 5.56, it’s not a problem. With the heavier recoil of the 7.62x51 however, it gouges into the flesh painfully and gets worse with each shot. The finger groove of the A2 grip is uncomfortable and I've never liked the feel of the round handguards.


    I replaced it all with full Magpul regalia and the M4 furniture has been relegated to the parts bin. The MOE handguard will eventually be replace with a carbon fiber free float tube.




    Some shooters wonder if the barrel of the S&W will be able to handle the heat of the 7.62x51. S&W chose 4140 steel, profiling it to be thicker under the handguards and much thinner forward of the gas block and gave it a melonite coating. This should prove to be a very durable combination. 5R rifling with a 1:10 twist is used.



    Receivers are forged from 7075 aluminum alloy which is stronger and more durable than billet receivers, especially those cut from 6 series alloy. Armalite forges their 308 receivers from 7175 alloy and their new design uses PMags. However, the Armalite receivers are currently as rare as hen’s teeth and aren’t ambidextrous.

    The M&P-10 comes with a standard AR fire control group. It’s smooth and predictable for it's type, but the more I shoot it, the more I wish it had a Geissele. Before replacing it, I’m going to take it out, grease it up and give it another go. If my experience with the standard trigger in my carbine is anything to go by, I’ll be springing for a G trigger when the budget allows.

    S&W claims the rifle weighs 7.7 lbs. Configured as below, this one showed 8.5 lbs on the scales empty and 10 lbs with a fully loaded 20 round PMag. A single, fully loaded Pmag with 20 rounds of 308 weighs a hefty pound and a half! The rifle wasn't weighed as it came from the factory, nor was it weighed after changing the handguard


    BCG is, of course larger than what’s used in a standard AR and a brief inspection showed the gas key is staked. The receiver extension is longer to accommodate the greater length and travel of the BCG which results in a longer Length of pull and there is a larger gap between the stock and the RE plate when fully collapsed. With my longer arms, I like the extra LOP and I don't have to fully extend the stock.

    The rifle wasn't shot for groups. I only ran about 100 rounds of German DAG and Venezuelan CAVIM just to test it for function and get a general impression of how it shoots. An Aimpoint H1 was robbed off the same carbine as the stock. The second surprise of the day was that without making any changes to the zero of the Aimpoint, point of impact was close enough at 300 yards that I could hit the center of mass of a torso target. (Later, the H1 was moved to closer to the eye and needed to be zeroed.) My impression is that this is going to be a good shooting rifle.

    Loading the factory 10 round magazine was more work than loading a 20 round mag for any of the Big 3 Battle Rifles- M14, FAL, HK91. The short length of the 10 round mag makes it difficult to give it a tug after it's inserted in the magwell to make sure it's locked in. On the plus side, the mag fed smoothly and will lock into place full with the bolt forward. I have since picked up couple PMags . They are easy to lock into place topped off and with the bolt closed and loading takes less effort. So far, feeding has been 100% reliable. Since acquiring the Pmags, the 10 rounder has gone un-used.

    Controlled pairs are more difficult to control due to the increased recoil and 7.62x51 will reveal any flaws in your stance. Shooting it back to back with a Para FAL that has a BABC, the M&P-10 has greater and harsher recoil. I think the difference is the compensator and I’ll be swapping out the long flash suppressor soon for the BABC to see if I’m right.


    As I handle the rifle, the ambidextrous controls are becoming more familiar and I like them. Locking the bolt back without the mag is much easier to do than with standard AR and being able to hit the release from either side is nice. I'm liking the ambidextrous mag release too. The safety works well, but when flicking to FIRE when shooting left handed, the selector lever (which is longer on the left side) is blocked by the trigger finger. All the shooter has to do is move the finger a bit, but it's annoying. A shorter and maybe thinner selector lever would minimize this problem.

    There is no denying the power of the 7.62x51. I had been popping a couple of rocks off and on with the smaller 5.56, tracking hits by the small puffs from impact. When I switched to the big AR, there was no small puff. Instead, there was chunks of pulverized stone slicing through the air, like the rock had been struck by the Hammer of Thor. Shooting the 5.56, it is fun, more practical and more economical, but I didn't care. The power of 7.62x51 is more deeply satisfying. I love shooting this rifle.

    S&W lists the MSRP for this rifle at $1619. I got mine out the door for just under that. With its forged receivers, features, performance and price, the S&W M&P-10, in my estimation, is the best value AR 308 on the market. As long as she proves to be reliable and accurate, she'll be a keeper
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-05-13 at 13:49.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Nobody expects the MP5 ninja. People think they are extinct
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    Re: Smith & Wesson M&P-10

    Congrats on your new purchase MistWolf, I know you've been eyeing these up for awhile now. Great review BTW. If I may add a note for those who read this and are considering buying one, the RE tube is a Mil-spec diameter, just a tad longer than normal. Also BCM Gunfighter charging handles have been found to be hit & miss. Some fit, some don't, so just be aware of this when purchasing one. The bolts & barrel extension also appear to be proprietary.

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    Last edited by Ryno12; 07-05-13 at 21:35.
    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

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    So, being that it's chambered in .308 and can reach out pretty far, just how accurate is that lightweight barrel?

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    Nice. We have a S&W LE distributor locally, and they got a shipment of the M&P10s during the height of the craze. Several of our guys got them, but I don't have any full fledged reports on them as of yet.

    Will it accept regular AR hand guards?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno12 View Post
    Congrats on your new purchase MistWolf, I know you've been eyeing these up for awhile now. Great review BTW...
    Thank you very much. I've wanted a 308 AR for a long time. The M&P-10 comes the closest to having what I wanted in this type of rifle


    If I may add a note for those who read this and are considering buying one, the RE tube is a Mil-spec diameter, just a tad longer than normal. Also BCM Gunfighter charging handles have been found to be hit & miss. Some fit, some don't, so just be aware of this when purchasing one. The bolts & barrel extension also appear to be proprietary.
    Good point about the RE. I was going to bring it up but it got lost in the shuffle. The CTR stock I used to shoot the big AR with came directly off a milspec RE

    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    So, being that it's chambered in .308 and can reach out pretty far, just how accurate is that lightweight barrel?
    I have not shot this rifle for groups yet. But with the DAG, I was able to keep my shots on a basketball sized rock at 300 using a 4 MOA Aimpoint from the offhand. When I get the NF 2.5x10 mounted, I'll get a box or two of good ammo and hit the range again.

    The barrel is lighter weight, but has a thicker profile under the handguards. It's pretty thick at the chamber, quite a bit thicker than a standard FAL barrel and has a long taper until it reaches it reaches the gas block. It's a bit thinner where it reaches the gas block and is thinner still forward of the gas block. It's almost like a sporter weight barrel for an old school bolt action

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    ...Will it accept regular AR hand guards?
    The handgurds that came with the rifle are regular midlength roound handguards without heat shields.

    If I were to remove the heat shield from a set of midlength Magpul MOE handguards, they would snap into place. The diameter of the chamber end of the barrel is too large for the heat shield to snap over it. I think someone bent or trimmed the heat shield to install a set of MOEs
    Last edited by MistWolf; 07-05-13 at 23:17.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Nobody expects the MP5 ninja. People think they are extinct
    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    The handgurds that came with the rifle are regular midlength roound handguards without heat shields.

    If I were to remove the heat shield from a set of midlength Magpul MOE handguards, they would snap into place. The diameter of the chamber end of the barrel is too large for the heat shield to snap over it. I think someone bent or trimmed the heat shield to install a set of MOEs
    Thanks for the info.

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    Re: Smith & Wesson M&P-10

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    Will it accept regular AR hand guards?
    Besides the mid-length gas system & for those interested in installing railed handguards, it should be noted that the M&P10 utilizes the DPMS low profile rail height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

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    Congrats! Great looking rifle.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    I have not shot this rifle for groups yet. But with the DAG, I was able to keep my shots on a basketball sized rock at 300 using a 4 MOA Aimpoint from the offhand.
    With respect to the distance, you are being too modest. The rock was at last 344 yds (give or take a few).

    BTW, you really need to pick up the debris at your range it's looking a bit unkempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmpanzr View Post
    Congrats! Great looking rifle.
    Thanks! You'll have to come shoot it next time!

    With respect to the distance, you are being too modest. The rock was at last 344 yds (give or take a few).
    Some guys with their lay-zers

    BTW, you really need to pick up the debris at your range it's looking a bit unkempt.
    The worst was the target stakes some miscreant left at the 100 yard berm. Some people!

    Anyone know what the the muzzle thread pitch is for the M&P-10?
    Last edited by MistWolf; 07-07-13 at 06:55.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Nobody expects the MP5 ninja. People think they are extinct
    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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    Re: Smith & Wesson M&P-10

    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Anyone know what the the muzzle thread pitch is for the M&P-10?
    If no one responds, this guy & a couple others in the same thread have replaced there's. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1577580 I'm sure Grant also knows. I assume it to be 5/8 x 24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

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    Smith & Wesson M&P-10

    The M&P10 seems to be a awesome package for the price. Picked up an AR10A before these hit the stores, have yet to go out and play with it.

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    We have sold a few of the M&P10 rifles and have positive reviews.

    I have an AR10A2 already, but do want to pick up a carbine 7.62 NATO in the future. The M&P10 may be it, but I am going to wait a bit. Here is why:

    S&W hit a home run, IMO, from the barrel back. I like the light weight barrel profile, but I dislike the gas block and flash suppressor and barrel journal. Why? The gas block is too small front to rear, as such the journal is also small which seems to preclude the replacement with a standard FSB. The muzzle device just adds too much length to the barrel. For comparison a SIG 716 with stock fully extended is about the same length as the M&P10 with the stock collapsed.

    What I am waiting for (not holding my breath): A M&P10 with a 7.62 A2 style muzzle device, standard A2 FSB (or GB that allows replacement with such). Not too much to ask for, right? Even the muzzle device is not needed as that is just a swap....

    Anyway, here is a quick pro/con list:

    Pro:
    Ambi controls - everything except charging handle
    Magazine - PMag compatible
    Cheap furniture - keeps cost down
    S&W lifetime warranty
    5R rifling/Melonite barrel
    Weight - this thing is stupid light
    Price - we are selling them at $1395.00 right now (don't ask, this is not a sales pitch)

    Cons:
    Muzzle device - may be 100% effective, but it very long (think M14 long) and makes a very light carbine into a very light rifle
    Handguards - while a pro above, they have no heat shield, can you say toasty?
    Gas block - small and the journal appears to be equally small possibly nixing any future upgrades/changes

    Overall:

    Awesome!

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    The gas block diameter is the common .750" and I had no problem replacing mine with a Troy low profile to go under my Troy rail. The muzzle threading is apparently 5/8x24 as my AR-10B muzzle brake threaded on just fine.
    Last edited by gunnut284; 07-07-13 at 15:27.

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    S&W claims 7.71 lbs for the rifle. I placed it on the scales with the Magpul STR, Aimpoint H1`Micro and VTAC sling and it tipped the scales at 8.5 lbs. Adding a 20 round PMag loaded with DAG took it up to 9.95 lbs. Might as well call it 10.

    I didn't weigh it with the factory supplied M4 stock as I plan to never shoot the rifle that way again
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Nobody expects the MP5 ninja. People think they are extinct
    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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    Got mine about a month after the SHOT show. Same as yours except it came with a PMAG20 308LR. I put a STR stock (with the thickest pad), a MIAD grip, and a MOE handguard in FDE on it. I did trim the back two tabs off the heat shield and it practically fell in place. I put a rail on the bottom and mounted a bipod adaptor with a Harris 6"-9" bipod. Mine has exactly 100 rounds through it since I cleaned when I took it out of the case. I mounted an old Weaver V16 (4 X 16 x 40AO) scope with a Leupold one piece AR style mount. I attempted to zero it and wound up about 1" low at 200 yards. The last six rounds were a 5 shot group at 200 yards and one shot at 100 yards to confirm POE, 1" or so high at 100 yards. 4 of the shots at 200 went into 1 3/8". The flyer opened the group up to 3 3/4". I had no rear rest. This was with 150 grain PSP deer hunting ammo. I have heard that these M&P 10 carbines shoot MOA. Surely they cannot shoot that good, especially with a foreend that is not floated.

    I would like to get a pivoting Bipod with notched legs. I would also like to get a Raptor charging handle. I plan to replace that too long flash hider with muzzle brake or a thread protector soon. I plan to kill a few deer with it this fall.
    Last edited by Little Creek; 07-08-13 at 12:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    Nice. We have a S&W LE distributor locally, and they got a shipment of the M&P10s during the height of the craze. Several of our guys got them, but I don't have any full fledged reports on them as of yet.

    Will it accept regular AR hand guards?
    Who is your local S&W LE distributor and where is he located?

    I trimmed the heat shield tabs closed to the back on a mid-length MOE handguard and it fit just fine on mine.
    Last edited by Little Creek; 07-14-13 at 06:54.

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    My son came up to visit today and I let him shoot the M&P-10. I asked him "What do you think of a 308 AR?" He shrugged and said "About normal."

    Of course, he shoots an M1 Garand
    Last edited by MistWolf; 07-15-13 at 00:18.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Nobody expects the MP5 ninja. People think they are extinct
    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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    I swapped out the S&W factory furniture that came with the M&P-10 with the Magpul set I originally had on my AR carbine. When removing the M&P-10 A2 style pistol grip, be aware it holds in place TWO springs. I'm not certain what the second spring does, I didn't take time to study it out. The original grip has a shallow divot for the second spring. The Magpul MOE does not. A divot could be drilled, but I didn't take the time to do this which compresses the second spring a little bit more. After installing the MOE, I tested the function of the safety and every thing else and all worked as it was supposed to.

    I swapped out the pistol grip because I've always found the A2, with it's finger bump and smaller grip diameter, to be uncomfortable. I can still shoot a rifle with one, but I don't like it.

    The delta ring has a very stiff spring. It would be much easier to change handguards with a delta ring tool, but I don't have one. I fought with the ring to get the factory supplied round handguards off and fought with it even harder to install the MOE handguards. I studied how the lower part of the MOE snaps into place and determined that the heat shield should indeed slip over the chamber of the barrel without trimming. What was preventing installation was the delta ring. Not only is the spring stiff, but it seems the delta ring doesn't move quite far enough to insert the handguards. With a bit of struggling, determination and probably a large amount of dumb luck, I got the MOE handguards installed. Trouble is, it seems I won't be able to remove them again without the delta ring tool. That's ok, I won't be going back to the round style.

    The rifle feels much better. The larger diameter of the MOE grip allows my finger to engage the trigger bow naturally and with the unified trigger guard, there is no gap to my knuckle raw. The MOE handguard feels right and is a good fit in my hand. It may be that I'm more used to the MOE. But I've never particularly cared for the round handguards. Of course, the first thing I did was replace M4 buttstock with a Magpul CTR with the thicker pad. The thicker pad didn't make much difference in recoil with the 5.56 but it makes a noticeable difference with the harder hitting 308.

    After shooting the rifles with the M4 style furniture, I've decided I'd much rather have Magpul. It's much more comfortable and with the CTR buttstock, easier to install a sling
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Nobody expects the MP5 ninja. People think they are extinct
    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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    From examining my own M&P 10 the front spring is for the safety detent and the rear spring is for the rear take-down detent. They re-position the rear take-down detent due to the additional length of the 308 AR receivers.

    Also you can take the MOE handguard off without the removal tool. It just takes time, persistence, and care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    I swapped out the S&W factory furniture that came with the M&P-10 with the Magpul set I originally had on my AR carbine. When removing the M&P-10 A2 style pistol grip, be aware it holds in place TWO springs. I'm not certain what the second spring does, I didn't take time to study it out. The original grip has a shallow divot for the second spring. The Magpul MOE does not. A divot could be drilled, but I didn't take the time to do this which compresses the second spring a little bit more. After installing the MOE, I tested the function of the safety and every thing else and all worked as it was supposed to.

    I swapped out the pistol grip because I've always found the A2, with it's finger bump and smaller grip diameter, to be uncomfortable. I can still shoot a rifle with one, but I don't like it.

    The delta ring has a very stiff spring. It would be much easier to change handguards with a delta ring tool, but I don't have one. I fought with the ring to get the factory supplied round handguards off and fought with it even harder to install the MOE handguards. I studied how the lower part of the MOE snaps into place and determined that the heat shield should indeed slip over the chamber of the barrel without trimming. What was preventing installation was the delta ring. Not only is the spring stiff, but it seems the delta ring doesn't move quite far enough to insert the handguards. With a bit of struggling, determination and probably a large amount of dumb luck, I got the MOE handguards installed. Trouble is, it seems I won't be able to remove them again without the delta ring tool. That's ok, I won't be going back to the round style.

    The rifle feels much better. The larger diameter of the MOE grip allows my finger to engage the trigger bow naturally and with the unified trigger guard, there is no gap to my knuckle raw. The MOE handguard feels right and is a good fit in my hand. It may be that I'm more used to the MOE. But I've never particularly cared for the round handguards. Of course, the first thing I did was replace M4 buttstock with a Magpul CTR with the thicker pad. The thicker pad didn't make much difference in recoil with the 5.56 but it makes a noticeable difference with the harder hitting 308.

    After shooting the rifles with the M4 style furniture, I've decided I'd much rather have Magpul. It's much more comfortable and with the CTR buttstock, easier to install a sling
    I did trim the rear pair of tabs on the heat shield of the mid-length MOE handguard I installed on my M&P 10. I first installed it without trimming these tabs and then had to take it off to add a rail. That Delta Ring spring is vary hard indeed. The "Trimmed MOE handguard" is much easier to install/take off. My M&P 10 shoots so good, I may not go with a free floating handguard, at least not until I catch up with a few other things. Even though I put a MIAD grip on mine, I might try the MIAD 1.1 when it is available. The current MIAD leaves a gap at the top rear and the plug does not work for me.

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