snubby question

[glocktogo]

If you're looking for a straight up training gun that can be pressed into service for CCW, get a steel frame that as closely duplicates your alloy carry gun as possible. Shooting a snubby well is all about presentation and trigger control. Punishing your hand and arm with repeated firing of standard and +P loads in a short time frame out of a lightweight gun doesn't do anything to reinforce shooting fundamentals and for most people, is detrimental.

I've pocket and ankle carried a 442 in the past, but I don't like pocket carry to begin with. My backup ankle gun is now a G-26 in a Galco Ankle Glove and it does everything better than my 442 in a Renegade did previously. For pocket carry, I very much prefer my Kel-Tek P-32, due to weight and size. I still occasionally carry my 3" S&W 66-4 with boot grips IWB. It conceals far better than any flat gun I own and I shoot it well.

Only you can decide what will work, but I'll bet your daughters would appreciate some recoil reduction for classes.

[moonshot]

I agree that training with several hundred rounds in one day through an air weight is probably not the smartest way to learn and retain good habits. This is one reason I began considering an all steel snubby as soon as I signed up for the class.

My G26 is carried IWB (C-Tac). Very comfortable, but not very hidden when I try using the holster as a tuckable. It needs a covering garment. Therefore, not a great choice for summertime work (tucked in polo shirt, no jacket). I've tried to carry my G26 in an ankle holster (Alessi and Fobus), but found it printed too much with the pants I was wearing, and the GAP floor plates would occasionally catch on the pant material when I pulled the pant leg up for presentation.

My 642 hides and feels great in my Fobus ankle rig, but I am not comfortable when it's my only gun. I too do not like pocket carry, so I am looking for a gun that hides well in a tuckable IWB or A-IWB, and the small revolver seems to fit this requirement well. Even a 3" should carry and hide well. A 2" 640-1 or SP101, while too heavy for pocket carry, would be a great training gun as well as a great IWB primary (when I can't carry my G26). My 642 would stay on my ankle (long pants) or pocket (shorts).

I like the versatility of the 642 (I can carry it almost anywhere), but as I stated earlier, I worry about it's durability to withstand a lot of shooting and it may not be the smartest choice for training.

I am curious to learn more about your experience with the Keltec P32. I had an early P3AT, but sold it due to peening of the slide and more recoil than I felt the power generated was worth. My air weight with +p's kicked far less. I am also not a fan of the 380.

I see no advantage in a P32 except in one situation - would my daughters carry one as an only gun when they might leave their 642 home? I had planned on buying them each a 642 as an 18th birthday present. They have shot mine and are spooky good with it. It's small and light, but is it small and light enough for a young woman to have pretty much all the time? This assumes they go for their CCW at their earliest opportunity.

I would prefer they carry the J-frame, but then I would prefer they carry a squad of Marines too.

[glocktogo]

I agree that training with several hundred rounds in one day through an air weight is probably not the smartest way to learn and retain good habits. This is one reason I began considering an all steel snubby as soon as I signed up for the class.

My G26 is carried IWB (C-Tac). Very comfortable, but not very hidden when I try using the holster as a tuckable. It needs a covering garment. Therefore, not a great choice for summertime work (tucked in polo shirt, no jacket). I've tried to carry my G26 in an ankle holster (Alessi and Fobus), but found it printed too much with the pants I was wearing, and the GAP floor plates would occasionally catch on the pant material when I pulled the pant leg up for presentation.

My 642 hides and feels great in my Fobus ankle rig, but I am not comfortable when it's my only gun. I too do not like pocket carry, so I am looking for a gun that hides well in a tuckable IWB or A-IWB, and the small revolver seems to fit this requirement well. Even a 3" should carry and hide well. A 2" 640-1 or SP101, while too heavy for pocket carry, would be a great training gun as well as a great IWB primary (when I can't carry my G26). My 642 would stay on my ankle (long pants) or pocket (shorts).

I like the versatility of the 642 (I can carry it almost anywhere), but as I stated earlier, I worry about it's durability to withstand a lot of shooting and it may not be the smartest choice for training.

I am curious to learn more about your experience with the Keltec P32. I had an early P3AT, but sold it due to peening of the slide and more recoil than I felt the power generated was worth. My air weight with +p's kicked far less. I am also not a fan of the 380.

I see no advantage in a P32 except in one situation - would my daughters carry one as an only gun when they might leave their 642 home? I had planned on buying them each a 642 as an 18th birthday present. They have shot mine and are spooky good with it. It's small and light, but is it small and light enough for a young woman to have pretty much all the time? This assumes they go for their CCW at their earliest opportunity.

I would prefer they carry the J-frame, but then I would prefer they carry a squad of Marines too.

While I prefer the power of a .38+P, the P-32 is a complete pussycat compared to the P3AT. The recoil isn't even comparable. It's noticeably smaller and lighter than the P3At when comparing them fully loaded. I'm also more accurate with the P-32 than I was with the 442. As a matter of fact, I once shot a full IDPA match with the P-32 and came in 18th overall out of 42 and tied a local PD firearms instructor for lowest points dropped (if you're going to shoot someone with a .32ACP, placement is critical). FWIW, I never carry the P-32 as a primary, just a 2nd gun.

If your daughters are really accurate with a 642, it's a tougher choice. I can carry my G-26 in a Don Hume IWB and it prints long before the 3" 66 does in a Lobo Leather IWB. Body type for your daughters is going to play a significant role in carry options on the body. I never recommend off body carry, but it's the only way some women will carry. I'd rather see them carrying in a holster purse than not at all. In that case, stepping up to at least a compact semi like the G-19 is a better choice.

[moonshot]

A brief update: I have decided to relagate my current 642 to range gun status. It has seen fairly heavy use (although nothing like Greg Bell's 642 in his excellent post), and will be tasked with training for anyone seeking to get time on an airweight. Hopefully, that will include myself, my daughters and my wife. I expect it to be shot a lot, but shot over time (not a lot at any one session).

I plan on replacing it with a 2nd 642-1 for carry only. I'll test it with 50 to 100 rounds for function and that's it. If I shoot it after that it's because I needed it.

I have not settled on a specific model gun for heavy training. It will be an all steel snubby, but whether S&W or Ruger, 2" or 3", I don't know. I do know it will be DAO, as I may carry it IWB / A-IWB when I can't carry my G26. I am open to suggestions.

[CAVDOC]

I shoot and carry an all steel model 36. I don't notice the weight carrying but it makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot. In my local shop I could walk in and they have 20 or so used j frames. 2&3 Inch any time. Get an old beater and have at it

[99thin]

very useful information. thanks a lot for this.

[SteveS]

I shoot and carry an all steel model 36. I don't notice the weight carrying but it makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot. In my local shop I could walk in and they have 20 or so used j frames. 2&3 Inch any time. Get an old beater and have at it

I have a 442 and a mod 60 both snubbies and load that are o.k. with the 60 are @#%#@ that a hot load on the 442.

[thopkins22]

So have you worked the math on how many rounds are considered to be nearing the point of wearing one out and the cost of that ammunition compared to the price of the gun?

I have no idea how many that is...I'm not a revolver guy(yet.) But what I'm saying is that it likely shouldn't factor in to your decision as much as the other factors.

ETA:Just saw that you'd posted an update and this is moot...figure I'll leave it here anyway.

[moonshot]

Update #2...

My Oct snubby class is fast approaching. In preparation I've been hitting the range with my "new" range snubby - my old 642. I've replaced the stock boot grip with Hogue Monogrips, and they make a world of difference. So much so that I am seriously considering using this setup for my upcoming class rather than buying an all steel snubby.

The light weight of the 642 will make shooting the class more of a challange, but it's the same model of gun I would be carrying, so that is a plus, and the monogrips coupled with standard pressure rounds has not yet caused any undue discomfort.

An all steel 640 or SP would be nice, but at $750 for the Smith and $600 for the Ruger, well I am not independantly wealthy.

I've still got about two weeks to change my mind, but I expect I'll have my airweight along for the ride when I leave for the class. I am looking forward to writing a review.

[williejc]

Get another 642, which will last long enough. Anyway, in the long run, we'll all be dead.