How many rounds until a malfunction is deemed "acceptable?"

[T2C]

I will not carry a pistol or rifle for defensive purposes until I fire 300 consecutive trouble free rounds. That is normally done in one range session.

If a worn weapon starts to have issues, I will replace parts or do whatever it takes to restore reliability, then fire another 300 trouble free rounds before putting it back in service.

My sorry butt is more valuable to me than the cost of ammunition and repair parts.

I just bought a Sig Sauer P239 that fires every time and feeds anything I shoot through it. The slide will not consistently lock open after the last shot in the magazine. A friend told me he had to fire 500 rounds though his P239 before the slide would consistently lock open. I am OK with that and will just have to shoot more rounds through my pistol before I carry it.

[Mauser KAR98K]

It is interesting to see how each party views this number. From my experience talking with manufacturers, they typically laugh if a customer is upset about a malfunction in the first 500rds. This of course is NOT representative of ALL gun manufacturers (just to be clear).



C4

I can see with the first 500 rounds or so with one or two malfunctions. I can see why the manufactures would laugh. Customers need to understand that machines do need to be broken in. Like shoes! Turning them back in because your feet hurt in the first mile...

[Dos Cylindros]

If my new out of the box gun will go 200 rounds with no malfunctions and quality duty ammunition I will carry it on or off duty. With most of the quality platforms I feel this is an acceptable standard. Obviously there have been certain quality manufactuers that have started having issues at or right after 1,000 rounds, but I don't own any guns from that maker so it's not a concern of mine. Obviously I would love to sit down at a range session and test out my new pistol with 1,000 rounds but it is just not in the cards right now. My duty gun has several thousand throgh it with no issues at all (M&P 40 full size), and I have total confidence in it. My off duty guns (HK P30 and M&P 9c) both have significantly less and I have the same level of confidence in them as well.

[RichDC2]

Depends on the gun type for me.

Custom 1911 needs to have a at least 1,000 rds without cleaning then another 1,000 cleaning regularly with SD ammo

Glock should be within 2-500 trouble free rds out of the box without cleaning and another 2-500 cleaning regularly with SD ammo

With that being said I want manufactures to test for 20,000+, don't shortchange us.

We know they are mechanical tools and problems will arise. Look for the trends and fix them. Regular maintainence technically should be good enough for no issues in a perfect world.

[ST911]

What's that expression? "I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it."

For a life-support gun, I want to see ~200rds of duty/carry ammo and 500+ rounds of practice ammo without malfunction. Most problematic combinations of gun and ammo will show up within that interval, as will some critical manufacturing defects. That's just a start though. A bobble at a lower quantity gets harsh scrutiny, but may not be disqualifying if it doesn't reoccur.

I've gone back and forth on specific critical quantities over the years, and found the above to work very well for me.

[Straight Shooter]

I never really sat down and thought about an exact number before until this thread, but after thinking awhile,
my bare minimum for pistol or rifle would have to be about 400 rounds or so. I discount any ammo or user fault.
If after 400 rounds, with no cleaning, the gun runs, in my book its good to go. Whenever I take a gun to the range for the first time, I try to shoot at least that much thru it the first time, to consider it broken in ,and check reliability.

[DreadPirateMoyer]

What's that expression? "I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it."

For a life-support gun, I want to see ~200rds of duty/carry ammo and 500+ rounds of practice ammo without malfunction. Most problematic combinations of gun and ammo will show up within that interval, as will some critical manufacturing defects. That's just a start though. A bobble at a lower quantity gets harsh scrutiny, but may not be disqualifying if it doesn't reoccur.

I've gone back and forth on specific critical quantities over the years, and found the above to work very well for me.

This is EXACTLY my routine as well as of late. 500 practice/range ammo, 200 duty. Once it clears those hurdles, I consider it clear.

[C4IGrant]

Depends on the gun type for me.

Custom 1911 needs to have a at least 1,000 rds without cleaning then another 1,000 cleaning regularly with SD ammo

Glock should be within 2-500 trouble free rds out of the box without cleaning and another 2-500 cleaning regularly with SD ammo

With that being said I want manufactures to test for 20,000+, don't shortchange us.

We know they are mechanical tools and problems will arise. Look for the trends and fix them. Regular maintainence technically should be good enough for no issues in a perfect world.

1K out of a 1911 without cleaning??? Good luck with that!

Why would a Glock only be 200-500 and the 1911 (which is KNOWN to be far less reliable) get 1K???

When manufacturers start a new gun, they will usually shoot somewhere between 10k and 20k out of several guns to prove concept.


C4

[C4IGrant]

I was talking to some instructor friends of mine and the subject of shooting large QTY's of rounds (1,000-2,000) WITHOUT cleaning. They thought it was pretty stupid and really proved nothing. If we look at Military use, a soldier might only carry 1-5 reloads on him (depending what the mission was). If we assume the mag capacity is 17rds, that is ONLY 85rds that could possible be fired!

If we think about a training class, most are in or around 300rds a day. So I am not sure what this 1K-2K without cleaning actually validates.



C4

[ruchik]

I'll typically go through about 200-300 rounds per range session. The odd bobble here and there doesn't bother me too much, I have never known a mechanical object that didn't fart sooner or later. But if I get malfunctions EVERY time I go to the range, in other words every 200-300 rounds, then this is a problem. If my gun malfunctions multiple times within the first 200-300 rounds of its life, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt by taking it home, cleaning, and trying again on another day. Same problems, then I'm concerned.