The kit pictured above is NOT a Ceiner.Originally Posted by Impact
Mags look like the Colt style mags.
Was Colt selling commercial M261's?
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Senior Member
The kit pictured above is NOT a Ceiner.
Mags look like the Colt style mags.
Was Colt selling commercial M261's?
Randall Rausch
AR15 Barrel Guru
Industry Professional
Ya it is a Colt 261 but, but not sure what the mags are, I got it in a trade, I know they came from the Air Force so I would assume the Mags maybe Colt as well.
Dealer
Please correct where I am wrong, but I thought you didn't have to buy a different barrel with the Ciener conversion??
C4
Former Member
You don't have to, but you should.
If you look at almost any commercially available .22LR like the 10/22 you'll find a much slower rifling twist than the typical AR has (slower even than the 1:12 SP1 barrels, more like 1:16). If you shoot a .22 LR in a 1:7 barrel your accuracy is going to suck.
Senior Member
You don't NEED a new barrel with a Ciener conversion, Grant; however, you WANT a different barrel if you are at all concerned about performance. From the Accurate .22 Rimfire in Petersen's Rifle Shooter (July/August 2002) posted here: http://www.kuehlprecisionfirearms.com/6234_eprint.pdf
Wouldn't you agree that "if what you want is proper performance, then you have to accept a bit more cost"?The .22 conversions available for them tend to be
cranky, unreliable, inaccurate and a beast to clean. There are two
reasons for these problems. One, the centerfire bore is supposed to
have a nominal diameter of .224-inch, while the .22 Long Rifle bore
is supposed to have a nominal diameter of .221-inch. Those three
thousandths of an inch do matter.
And second, the slowest twist in an AR barrel is one turn in 12
inches. A proper rimfire bore has a twist of one turn in 16. The too fast
12-inch twist, combined with the loose bore, means casual
accuracy. (You can imagine what the one in nine or one in seven inch
twist rifling some AR barrels have does to a soft rimfire bullet.)
As if all this isn’t enough, to fill the .223 chamber, .22 rimfire
conversions have a chamber-shaped extension. A smoothbore
extension. So the bullet starts out skidding down a smooth bore,
then slams into an overly large and too-fast twist bore. Its a wonder
any of the poor things find the right target at all.
Richard Kuehl, a Missouri gunsmith, has a conversion that eliminates
those problems. First, he uses a true rimfire barrel blank to
make his uppers. Yes, instead of a conversion kit, he makes conversion
uppers. Making a complete upper is more expensive than a
simple conversion, but if what you want is proper performance,
then you have to accept a bit more cost.
Inside the upper is a modified Ciener/Atchisson conversion kit.
Kuehl removes the .223-shaped chamber extension, and modifies
the rails of the conversion to mate with the barrel extension. The
breech end of the rimfire barrel has a correct match chamber, an
integral feed ramp, and guide slots for the action rails.
...
I tested it at 50 yards with a selection of standard and high
velocity production ammo, and Federal and Eley match ammo.
AMMO GROUP (inches)
Eley Tenex .....................................................1.5”
Winchester Wildcat ........................................2.25”
Federal Gold Match ........................................1.125”
Eley Match......................................................0.875”
Winchester Xpert ...........................................1.75”
Remington Target ..........................................1.5”
Remington Hi velocity.....................................1.5”
CCI Green Tag ...............................................1.625”
"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)
"I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity
Member
who sells extra 30rds mags ?
Also, what the shortest length you can go on a 22LR barrel with suppressor ?
thanks
Senior Member
Ciener is the only manufacturer of 30-round .22LR mags as far as I know; both he and Rick Kuehl sell them. Email rick@kuehlprecisionfirearms.com and ask him the shortest barrel he has made.
ETA: There is a 3.25" barrel pictured here: http://www.kuehlprecisionfirearms.co...%20gallery.htm
"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)
"I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity
Member
thanks for the link
so the new kuehl barrels do not use modified Ciener kit right ?
Senior Member
Kuehl does use a Ceiner kit.
He does NOT use the original chamber adapter though.
He makes his own sleeve that slides on to a dedicated barrel.
I have done barrels this way as well.
It's a much better design than the chamber adapter.
Last one I did was a 6.5" and that was just a couple weeks ago.
Randall Rausch
AR15 Barrel Guru
Member
Yep. Those look like 261 mags to me as well.
TS
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