Noveske Ultralight (Update)

[n4p226r]

awesome. i just weighed my novekse build to see where i could save weight if i wanted to for comparison. my lower is 38.125oz with noveske gen II chainsaw, bad cass, geissele sea, vltor imod, colt lower parts, bcm mod 1 grip, and h buffer. my upper is 79.125 oz with noveske mur upper. 14.5" low profile CHF barrel, bc1.5 pinned, 13.5"NSR, bobro t1 mount, micro t1, noveske troy buis, HSP/IWC keymod offset light mount, HSP in force light, noveske keymod sling swivel. you have, essentially, the same rifle with 21.25oz less weight as your goal

[jerrysimons]

awesome. i just weighed my novekse build to see where i could save weight if i wanted to for comparison. my lower is 38.125oz with noveske gen II chainsaw, bad cass, geissele sea, vltor imod, colt lower parts, bcm mod 1 grip, and h buffer. my upper is 79.125 oz with noveske mur upper. 14.5" low profile CHF barrel, bc1.5 pinned, 13.5"NSR, bobro t1 mount, micro t1, noveske troy buis, HSP/IWC keymod offset light mount, HSP in force light, noveske keymod sling swivel. you have, essentially, the same rifle with 21.25oz less weight as your goal

Thanks.
Sounds like a nice set-up.
The only obvious weight savings I see, which may also enhance the rifle's handling for you, is to delete the IWC/HSP 45* offset mount and run the WML at 12 o'clock in front of the Troy (ambi, less exposure shooting over and/or around cover and concealment, etc.). That will save you almost 1oz up front, where weight matters most. Other then that, you would have to start replacing parts to drop weight and already having such a nice set up it may be better to start a dedicated lightweight build, IMO. The barrel profile offers the most weight savings since you already have a lightweight rail. Though, you could shave 1.2oz swapping to the 11" NSR from the 13.5" as well. This would also make the rifle feel lighter to handle, since the rail attachments would be closer to the center of balance.

[n4p226r]

yea. I'm not really looking to lighten it up, as it was never meant to be a "lightweight" build. i figure if you are really going lightweight you need to go all out like you have done. I'm really interested in how your upper, with the low profile gas block and NSR compares to this upper weight wise.

http://shopnoveske.com/collections/u...bine-moe-upper

im torn for my next build to go with something lightweight with just iron sights or 18" with a variable optic. but this thread is a big help for me if i decide to go that route.

im also very new to shooting. i may decide to eventually run a surefire u300 in front of a DD fixed front sight but i'll wait till i get used to my setup a little more before deciding if i want to do that or not. i tried the HSP Inforce light in front of the flip up and it didn't work well there.

[David Thomas]

Project Noveske Ultralight


-Aimpoint T1/ Fortis F1 combo (4.35oz) vs. Trijicon RMR/ RM34 mount (3.5oz?)

I considered the RMR but decided the T1 was better for .8oz more weight. The T1 mounted on a Fortis F1 weighs 4.35oz measured (3.05oz+1.3oz). According to specs the RMR only weighs 1.2oz but the RM34 mount weighs 2.3oz (? questionable accuracy from http://www.4scopes.com/trj-rm34.html ) and the ADM RMR mount weighs 3.5oz, for a mounted total of 3.5oz and 4.7oz respectively. For .8oz more over the RMR/R34 combo I would rather have the T1/F1 combo with 2moa dot, mounted battery changes, longer battery life, 1/2" at 100yd click adjustment (vs 1"@100yd), lower 1/3rd co-witness, and a proven track record. Of coarse, unlike the RM34, the lightest T1 mounts (Fortis F1 1.3oz and DD Micro 1.7oz) are not QD. But I decided QD wasn't wholly necessary on a dedicated HD rifle after watching the DD torture test video; my T1 will survive where I will not. Short of taking a round directly to the optic, the only thing it is realistically susceptible to is fog and rain, but inside the house should not be a problem there.

Someone really needs to make a lighter mount for the RMR on the order of 1oz or less, something like the Fortis F1 scaled down to the size of the RMR would be perfect and scary light (if strength was a concern it could be made out of the aluminum alloy V7 uses) the weight benefit might be worth the feature trade off at 2.2oz mounted.

My RMR and ADM Co-witness mount combo weighs 4.8 oz.

the T1 wins the numbers game on paper at least.

Someone does need to make a better RMR mount.

[jerrysimons]

yea. I'm not really looking to lighten it up, as it was never meant to be a "lightweight" build. i figure if you are really going lightweight you need to go all out like you have done. I'm really interested in how your upper, with the low profile gas block and NSR compares to this upper weight wise.

http://shopnoveske.com/collections/u...bine-moe-upper

My records show I weighed the upper (w/ mil-spec port door assembly) with permed BCE 1.5, 11" NSR, Gunfighter Mod4 CH, and BCG at 3.51lbs or 56.2oz.

Now we must add 1.16oz for the MBUS front flip sight to keep it apples to apples in terms of function. Also, I am not sure if the weight listed by Noveske includes the rear MBUS Gen 2 sight, so maybe add 1.3oz for a total of 57.2oz or 58.7oz.

I have a little over 5oz on that set up (4lbs=64oz) if the rear sight is included. .9oz of that is coming from the muzzle device, 2.0oz BCE 1.5 vs. 2.9oz AAC non-mount (.1oz crush washer used to mount both) and the rest, about 4oz, must be from the lo-pro w/ 11" NSR vs. the FSB (.625 or .750?) w/ MOE handguards assuming the listed weight is accurate.

I think the skinny barrel is .750" at the gas port (edit: it is .625" dia). The Noveske lo-pro gas block weighs 1.4oz but the FSB can be shaved on that upper and cut in half the way Robb Jensen did in his thread for like .8oz less than the lo-pro, which is pretty slick way to go if one were going to get that upper and put a rail on it.

[jerrysimons]

My RMR and ADM Co-witness mount combo weighs 4.8 oz.

the T1 wins the numbers game on paper at least.

Someone does need to make a better RMR mount.

Thanks for confirming the weight. The RMR mounts have QD going for them where the lightest Micro mounts do not. Though not the lightest micro mount, the Larue Lt 751 is still 1oz lighter than the ADM RMR mount.

[n4p226r]

My records show I weighed the upper (w/ mil-spec port door assembly) with permed BCE 1.5, 11" NSR, Gunfighter Mod4 CH, and BCG at 3.51lbs or 56.2oz.

Now we must add 1.16oz for the MBUS front flip sight to keep it apples to apples in terms of function. Also, I am not sure if the weight listed by Noveske includes the rear MBUS Gen 2 sight, so maybe add 1.3oz for a total of 57.2oz or 58.7oz.

I have a little over 5oz on that set up (4lbs=64oz) if the rear sight is included. .9oz of that is coming from the muzzle device, 2.0oz BCE 1.5 vs. 2.9oz AAC non-mount (.1oz crush washer used to mount both) and the rest, about 4oz, must be from the lo-pro w/ 11" NSR vs. the FSB (.625 or .750?) w/ MOE handguards assuming the listed weight is accurate.

I think the skinny barrel is .750" at the gas port. The Noveske lo-pro gas block weighs 1.4oz but the FSB can be shaved on that upper and cut in half the way Robb Jensen did in his thread for like .8oz less than the lo-pro, which is pretty slick way to go if one were going to get that upper and put a rail on it.

so i just subtracted all the stuff off of my upper to get a similar comparison.

my upper 69.125oz
1.3oz for the keymod thorntail offset
.55oz for 7 section NSR panel
.28oz for 4 single NSR panels
.3 for noveske QD keymod sling

that puts my upper at 66.695oz with the vltor mur upper, 13.5" NSR, and troy flip up sights. you say i can save another 1.2oz by going with the 11" NSR. that would put me at 65.495oz. if yours is 58.7oz, its pretty easy to see there is a pretty substantial weight difference from the barrel alone. I'm not sure how much the MUR w/forward assist or troy vs mbus is but even if thats 1oz each, there is still 5oz difference between the barrels.

sorry for the thread hijack. it just interested me that we have similar builds parts wise and i considered going more lightweight and its nice to see how the two compare. especially if others may be thinking the same thing

[jerrysimons]

so i just subtracted all the stuff off of my upper to get a similar comparison.

my upper 69.125oz
1.3oz for the keymod thorntail offset
.55oz for 7 section NSR panel
.28oz for 4 single NSR panels
.3 for noveske QD keymod sling

that puts my upper at 66.695oz with the vltor mur upper, 13.5" NSR, and troy flip up sights. you say i can save another 1.2oz by going with the 11" NSR. that would put me at 65.495oz. if yours is 58.7oz, its pretty easy to see there is a pretty substantial weight difference from the barrel alone. I'm not sure how much the MUR w/forward assist or troy vs mbus is but even if thats 1oz each, there is still 5oz difference between the barrels.

sorry for the thread hijack. it just interested me that we have similar builds parts wise and i considered going more lightweight and its nice to see how the two compare. especially if others may be thinking the same thing

No worries, man...
The Noveske MUR 1A weighs 9.6oz and the standard mil-spec upper is 8.6oz ( I added the MUR1a to the list above). The Troys are on the list with the MBUS Gen 2s there is about .86oz between them.

4-5oz sounds about right for the 14.5" Skinny vs. 14.5" Light Reece barrel profiles. If I am not mistaken a Noveske-tapered-profile midlength barrel weighs 1oz more than a government profile midlength barrel, which they phrase as weighing the same as a M4 barrel that is carbine length and government profile. As far as government profiles go, midlengths are slightly lighter then carbine length gas barrels because the thiner diameter under the handguard is extended further. With that in mind, the Noveske-tapered-profile is slightly heavier than an equivalent length/gas govt. profile barrel. Usually lightweight govt profiles save about 4oz over their standard counter parts, so close to 5oz less sounds just right between your barrel and the Skinny barrel.

The two most important parts for a lightweight build are definetly the rail and then the barrel. I am saving quite a bit of weight using the Colt CAR stock aswell, but I wouldn't recommend someone go there first because it will mess up the balance of the rifle. My carbine actually does balance well with the CAR stock with all of the other lightweight stuff combined at the front.

[ScottsBad]

First, thank you for all the work you put into this thread. All the info is helpful.

I've been tinkering around with light (not ultra-light) builds for awhile. I completely respect what you've done, but my thinking is a little different with regard to a light self-defense rifle build. When I think of self-defense rifle I think of a rifle that my wife or kids could use to protect the family at home. Where I differ is that my self defense rifles must be ready to bug out leaving my tools and many other firearms at home. For this I need four rifles which are equipped using high quality standard parts which are completely interchangeable (except the forearms and barrel profiles). A spare complete bolt for each, small parts and springs, spare Sprinco buffer spring w/"H" buffer with LMT RE and a spare bolt carrier.

You've done a great job of identifying very reliable parts and assembling them in what appears to be a well thought out methodical build. For my uses I would not deviate away from a standard BCM BCG for an Enhanced LMT BCG, especially with a mid-length gas system. Same with the Vltor RE setup, unless I decided to keep spares specifically for that setup.

Some of the decisions you made were not related to weight. Its great that you are not only trying to build a reliable light weight rifle you are trying to stretch the performance as well.

Another point, the weight saved by using aluminum dust covers and end plates don't come close to the weight saved with shorter lightweight barrel profiles (even 14") and shorter light weight forearms.

The T-1 is the best choice, no question. But the mount is critical. A T-1 is bomb proof, but the Fortis mount may not be. Yeah, LV had a DD rifle run over by a truck and the T-1 survived with the DD mount, but if the Fortis mount bent you wouldn't be able to hit a barn door with it. I'd go with the DD mount for the tiny difference in weight.

Finally, my intended use and needs are a little different than yours I think, but I wonder about the efficacy of trading out proven standard parts in favor of the small potential performance and weight savings gained by using non-standard and light weight parts for anything but a project rifle. JMHO

[thebuckeye]

Very well researched and planned.

This thread is a great resource for future builds.